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Old 17th July 2009, 08:43   #1
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Default strange Differential problem!

I recently was driving back from a trek.I had the 4wd engaged on the way back for about 2 km on a mud road.

Before i got back onto the tarmac I disenagaged 4wd.

Some time later i notice when i go into a sharp turn i could here a creaking grinding noise form one of the rear wheels.

I knew it was not a wheel bearing problem because they were recently checked and are greased very regularly.

I drove back home and the noise had reduced.The next day the grinding noise wasn't present anymore,but when i drove around a curve even at slow speed i could here a clicking sound from the rear wheels.

I jacked up one rear wheel and realised that it would not rotate freely as it should, I was barely able to rotate it, first thought was the brakes are jamming but when i jacked up the axle assembly from the centre both wheels revolve very smoothly.

It does not matter which rear wheel i jack up, it is very difficult to spin, but when jacked up from the diff pumpkin both wheels spin freely also when spinning one wheel when the other is on the ground i can hear a creaking noise.

I opened up the diff cover at the rear the oil is level and clean no metal particles and the spider and ring pinnion gears are intact!

So my question is how has my open diff suddenly morphed into something like an lsd?

I also can't seem to remove the axle shafts after dissasembly, it is jammed in place no amount of heating and hammering or using axle shaft puller is working!

Also today after all the hammering to remove the axle shaft we temporarily gave up and when we put the wheels back it still is working like and lsd but without the creaking nosie!!
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Old 17th July 2009, 09:23   #2
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Get the rear axle and differential checked by a competent mechanic. There is a problem somewhere, some bearing, or gear tooth has given away.
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Old 17th July 2009, 10:08   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motocamp View Post
I recently was driving back from a trek.I had the 4wd engaged on the way back for about 2 km on a mud road.

Before i got back onto the tarmac I disenagaged 4wd.

Some time later i notice when i go into a sharp turn i could here a creaking grinding noise form one of the rear wheels.

I knew it was not a wheel bearing problem because they were recently checked and are greased very regularly.

I drove back home and the noise had reduced.The next day the grinding noise wasn't present anymore,but when i drove around a curve even at slow speed i could here a clicking sound from the rear wheels.

I jacked up one rear wheel and realised that it would not rotate freely as it should, I was barely able to rotate it, first thought was the brakes are jamming but when i jacked up the axle assembly from the centre both wheels revolve very smoothly.

It does not matter which rear wheel i jack up, it is very difficult to spin, but when jacked up from the diff pumpkin both wheels spin freely also when spinning one wheel when the other is on the ground i can hear a creaking noise.

I opened up the diff cover at the rear the oil is level and clean no metal particles and the spider and ring pinnion gears are intact!

So my question is how has my open diff suddenly morphed into something like an lsd?

I also can't seem to remove the axle shafts after dissasembly, it is jammed in place no amount of heating and hammering or using axle shaft puller is working!

Also today after all the hammering to remove the axle shaft we temporarily gave up and when we put the wheels back it still is working like and lsd but without the creaking nosie!!
Hi Motocamp. I think this could be a problem with the pinion or the pinion bearings.
As you said both the wheels were rotating freely when jacked up the diff housing. Which direction were they rotating? did you try rotating only one wheel or both in the same direction?
And did you check if the wheel nuts are tight?
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Old 17th July 2009, 10:20   #4
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Wouldn't this problem arise when one or both spiders are jammed & hence not free to rotate ?
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Old 17th July 2009, 11:16   #5
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When is it being upgraded to a full locker?

The problem is in ur diff. No backlash in the diff gears is a odd.
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Old 17th July 2009, 11:18   #6
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Default Diff-Problem

Hi Kunal,

im_srini has made a good suggestion. I would like to add.

1) Either the Axle has got wedged into the pinion shaft/cross shaft.

2) or one or both the side gears have ground into the carrier assembly, only if the back lash shims are missing, during initial installation.

3) Differential Pinion and Pinion Shaft have ground into the carrier assembly.

4) Disconnect the rear prop shaft and check if both the wheels rotate together.

5) EUREKA!!!! Take pics during subsequent dis/re-assembly

Regards,

Arka
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Old 17th July 2009, 21:07   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Kunal,

im_srini has made a good suggestion. I would like to add.

1) Either the Axle has got wedged into the pinion shaft/cross shaft.

2) or one or both the side gears have ground into the carrier assembly, only if the back lash shims are missing, during initial installation.

3) Differential Pinion and Pinion Shaft have ground into the carrier assembly.

4) Disconnect the rear prop shaft and check if both the wheels rotate together.

5) EUREKA!!!! Take pics during subsequent dis/re-assembly

Regards,

Arka
Thats what me and alfa kilo thought

But the thing is

1. there is no visible damage to the spider gears.
2.no metal of any kind in the diff.
3. my diff has never been dis assembled as yet.(so ther being no shims behind the spider gear is not possible)and if it has worn down i should see a good amount of metal in the oil.
4. i am unable to pull out either axle shafts, we have laso heated the diff tubes where the axle bearing near the hub sits and then used a puller to pull the axle shaft in tandem with hammering but to no avail.they dont budge!!
5.everything else ring gear, pinion , spider gears are all original and seem to be in goos condition.
6.yes the rear wheels are spinning together when both are lifted of the ground.

come on guys how do i pull the axle shafts!
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Old 18th July 2009, 10:08   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motocamp View Post
Thats what me and alfa kilo thought

But the thing is

1. there is no visible damage to the spider gears.
2.no metal of any kind in the diff.
3. my diff has never been dis assembled as yet.(so ther being no shims behind the spider gear is not possible)and if it has worn down i should see a good amount of metal in the oil.
4. i am unable to pull out either axle shafts, we have laso heated the diff tubes where the axle bearing near the hub sits and then used a puller to pull the axle shaft in tandem with hammering but to no avail.they dont budge!!
5.everything else ring gear, pinion , spider gears are all original and seem to be in goos condition.
6.yes the rear wheels are spinning together when both are lifted of the ground.

come on guys how do i pull the axle shafts!
Hi Kunal,

You can try the this

1) Drain oil and remove diff-cover.
2) Remove the Pinion Shaft and retaining pin.
3) Remove the Pinion Gears and shaft, now you will be able to push the axle into the differential carrier and inspect for damage.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 18th July 2009, 19:30   #9
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Thanks Arka , I will try that when i get back from Rajmachi tomorrow...I know! I know! not a good idea! but the problem seems to have sorted itself out for now both wheel now spin indepently, though it does take a little effort to spin them.

Hopefully nothing will grenade on me tomorrow!
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Old 31st July 2009, 01:11   #10
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Hi
1> Sounds like there is play in excess wrt your spider gear. Have it sorted and the noise will stop.
2> Also check the if the shaft is true.
3> The spider gear being steel(rated to take much higher loads than you would subject it to normally) will not wear out like a mild steel component.
4> It will break under stress than get ground out like mild steel part which is not tempered.
5> You might want to check for new uneven wear patterns on the mating surfaces of the spider wheel.
Cheers
Jammy

Last edited by MM440 : 31st July 2009 at 01:29.
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