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Old 19th December 2009, 11:20   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post

I sincerely suggest all the 4x4 drivers/followers to go through the excellent document compiled by Warn Industries for Winching Techniques here in this PDF file.

http://www.warn.com/corporate/images...US.readers.pdf
Excellent article! Downloaded, printed - goes into jeep file. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
In very tough situations, use two tackle blocks, this will triple the winching force.
Can you explain with a diagram how you would connect 2 blocks?
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Old 30th July 2010, 13:03   #32
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Excellent article by Warn, definitely a must have. Guys participating in TPC can use this article to their advantage.

Spike
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Old 12th August 2010, 12:11   #33
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Got couple of heavy duty towing equipment from Stellas Intertraders. The address provided here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-t...4x4-india.html

4.75T capacity D-Shackles. It is really huge, compare it with the 5 rupee coin.

A Winch Test-p1020020.jpg

5T capacity tow strap.

A Winch Test-p1020026.jpg

Most of us generally use 3T shackles and tow straps. Here is a color code guide for the tow straps.

A Winch Test-p1020025.jpg
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Old 9th February 2011, 11:22   #34
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Default Re: A Winch Test

dear bhp support , I am posting this info here so as to keep winch info at one place ( avoided opening a new thread for that ) , you can however move this at appropriate thread or at a completely new thread.

dear all , recently I have completed a dual battery setup for winch purpose on my Landy

features
1) 2 No's of ac delco marine deep cycle batteries ( 95 amp/hr - 670 CCA each )

2) battery connection in parallel ,so voltage remains the same but amp/hr doubles

3) used a common conductor plate ( insulated ) for both +ve & -ve wires . Explanation : positive conductor has 4 wires , 2 from each battery , 1 to starter & 1 to winch also the negative conductor has 2 wires from battery, 1 to starter (ground ) & 1 to winch ground

4) advantages

a) more current available for winch so ease & cooler running for motor

b) both are deep cycle batteries , so expect longer life

c) winch or any of the battery can be isolated if needed

d) used heavy cables for sort of more conductivity : battery wires are 50 sq mm & the rest are 70 sq mm ( to starter & winch )

have a look ( proper clamping of wires remains )

1) raw material
A Winch Test-1rawmater.jpg

2) conductor plate
A Winch Test-2comncondct.jpg

3) plate mounted
A Winch Test-3comncondctmunt.jpg

4)cables
A Winch Test-4acbllugclsp.jpg

5)fitted
A Winch Test-5cblft.jpg

6) fitted
A Winch Test-6fnlft.jpg

7) battery 1 ( under seat , in originally provided place )
A Winch Test-7bat1.jpg

8) battery 2 ( regular in bonnet also in originally intended place )
A Winch Test-8bat2.jpg


Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 9th February 2011 at 11:41.
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Old 9th February 2011, 12:07   #35
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Default Re: A Winch Test

How much is your alternator rating? Assuming you have a combined 190 AH setup, your alternator if 45Ah~, will need ~4 hours to recharge!!

Have you explored a dual alternator setup? I have been thinking of that, lots of space in a jeep available for that. Minor loss of Bhp Ok...
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Old 9th February 2011, 12:54   #36
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
How much is your alternator rating? Assuming you have a combined 190 AH setup, your alternator if 45Ah~, will need ~4 hours to recharge!!
I don't have the correct technical knowledge about this but with some common sense & experience I can tell
1) the calculation you have given seems ok ,if the batteries are fully down ,but that rarely happens ,& when it happens one cannot start the vehicle & only option is to bench charge the batteries
2) assuming what you say really happens while winching . I think the batteries will take an hour's run time to accumulate the current needed for starting the engine ( with 45 amp alternator )
3) I had a single 75 amp/hr ,deep cycle battery before but never had a problem with the standard alternator ( though I kept the engine running at half throttle ,have a lever for that )
4) now with this setup I am sure I will be able to restart after sufficient winching ( with engine shut off )

Quote:
Have you explored a dual alternator setup? I have been thinking of that, lots of space in a jeep available for that. Minor loss of Bhp Ok...
nevr heard of such thing , but AFAIK about batteries & charging that there can be only one source ( fitting the limitations of the battery) to charge a battery or batteries ( connected together ), you cant put two different charging sources together.

perhaps you are talking about the 'split charging for dual battery setup

Many times it is advised to use a 100 amp alternator for vehicles having winch .But many think its not necessary

IMHO this is a trial/experiment based more on commonsense/practical experience then through theoretical knowledge , I am giving my best shot ,assuming few things , the costs involved is not too much & I have a feeling that this will succeed lets see .


Sudarshan
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Old 9th February 2011, 14:48   #37
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Sudarshan,

I was thinking you can fit a 2nd alternator and connect it to the pulley (same way you will power a AC compressor), and connect that to a 2nd battery setup and just use that battery always for running a winch, or some juggad like that. May be if done correctly you can have 2 alternators powering two batteries (serial or parallel, I dont know to say), which in turn will run the whole vehicle and winch. Of couse the starter motor still remains 12V, (so you decide serial or parallel, i dont know 1 from the other..!!). Let me know if this sounds feasible??
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Old 9th February 2011, 19:50   #38
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
dear all , recently I have completed a dual battery setup for winch purpose on my Landy

2) battery connection in parallel ,so voltage remains the same but amp/hr doubles
Rajubhai, what is the rating of your motor? Why do you need so much current? Would not keeping the second battery in the charging circuit be a better option? What I mean is, while the engine is running it will charge the second battery also. If the primary battery goes down, you can shift your use to the second battery, the first battery goes to charging mode now.

Quote:
a) more current available for winch so ease & cooler running for motor
Will more current through the motor further reduce its efficiency? Check this:-
Electrical Motor Efficiency

Spike

PS- I need to brush up my fundas on Electric motors, can't remember anything electrical I learned 7 years back
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Old 9th February 2011, 20:11   #39
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@ Santosh & Spike , let me put it in a little different way .


My winch ( Warn 10,000 pounds) needs a 12 v DC battery ,having a minimum rating of 650 Cold Cranking Amps. Its a series wound 2.5 hp motor takes around 475 amps ,for 4.5 tons of pulling

Deep cycle type of batteries are best suited for the job ,as they last longer then any regular battery ( wrt winch duty )

you may run a winch on a Normal battery but the battery life will be reduced .

So I started hunting for the Right battery. I had almost spent 4 months but no solution available . I had used the optima battery before but its not sold here any more .

few days back I came to know about the Ac Delco battery , this is a Deep cycle Marine battery having 670 CCA . Now this is just sufficient for the job ,I needed some more power ( CCA + Amp/hr rating ) this is based on my previous experience of winching etc.

Now no alternative in sight I resorted to the setup I have made ,That is fitting them in parallel connection , this doubles the current rating, but voltage remains the same .

In simple words I am having some more juice ( amps & amp/hr ) retaining 12 volts , take it as a single 12v battery having 190 amp/hr + double the CCA available.

I also confirmed this with Warn , according to them competitors in extreme off roading events always use duel battery setup like this ,they added that the winch motor will also run cooler due to larger current availability ,


To your points

Now you cant charge a battery or connected batteries with two different charging sources coupled together & that's for sure .

now if I do a setup according to you ( two alternators ) ,then I will need to keep the two batteries separated I cant connect them in any way as there are two different charging sources . then my whole purpose of using two batteries ( for having double the current available ) gets defeated .

the only upgrade I can do now is to go for a larger alternator ( 100 amps )

hope you get it cleared

Sudarshan
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Old 9th February 2011, 20:43   #40
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Great Thread Samurai. It has answered many of my FAQs re winches, about which i am still learning. I guess thats the best thing to do after such an equipment install. Test it so you know when and how to use it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Excellent article! Downloaded, printed - goes into jeep file. Thanks.
Great article. Tejas for some reason i cant download the pages. They get saved as a web page. I trhink because its a pdf file. Since you have downloaded it, could you email it to me. Im going to also put it in my Jeep file for further reference when i install a winch on my Jeep.....which I will....sometime!!
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Old 10th February 2011, 17:47   #41
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Made 2 pulleys myself ( ya the DIY curse ) to be used in winching , now on test .

these are home made , except lathe work ( but with that too I tried my hand & did most of the job, finally the lathe shop owner had to stop me so he could finish the job & charge me )

they have two ball bearings each

have a look

A Winch Test-bhp1.jpg

A Winch Test-bhp2.jpg

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 10th February 2011 at 17:54.
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Old 10th February 2011, 20:01   #42
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^^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
they have two ball bearings each
Sudarshan
Why?

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Sutripta
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Old 10th February 2011, 21:09   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^^

Why?

Regards
Sutripta
Hmm , why it sounds like Arka

anyways jokes apart , AFAIK pulleys mostly use bushings ,now in off roading scenes dirt can easily enter & create additional friction . So I thought about using 'sealed' ball bearings ,simply to have less friction & effective sealing ( rubber sealed ) against elements . also decided to use two bearings then one , as added precaution against unexpected overload

this is again an experiment , I haven't 'engineered ' the design but used some common sense & experience .You can call it a jugad but I hope this will succeed.

This is little OT but please bear . Now after so many failed projects of various kinds all over these years I worked , I have learned to make things work & I think this will work .

Sudarshan
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Old 10th February 2011, 21:16   #44
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Default Re: A Winch Test

^^^^
Hi,
I'm sure it will work. Just that the nature of the load (heavy, almost static at times, seldom used) are better handled by a bush than ball bearings.

BTW, I can't get an idea of the size. What bearings have you used? 6205? zz or 2rs?

Regards
Sutripta

Edit: read the rubber seal after posting.

Last edited by Sutripta : 10th February 2011 at 21:26.
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Old 10th February 2011, 21:34   #45
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@ Sutripta ,

I have made these six months back , I will search in my library ,

but what I remember is the smaller pulley uses 2 No.'s of yezdi wheel bearings ( 6203 ? ) & larger uses the 800's wheel bearings ( may be 6205 )

these are single side rubber sealed ( 1 RZ ? )

I am also concerned about your point of static load , lets see .

I will post a pic with scale tomorrow ,

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 10th February 2011 at 21:35.
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