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Old 7th July 2011, 10:21   #61
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Update

I am going to try a 125 Amp alternator on my Landy , keeping in mind the winch setup ( max current draw 450+ amps ), with two deep cycle batteries of 95 ah/hr connected in parallel

Inviting thoughts ,suggestions ,corrections

this is it have a look , a Lucas made 125 amp unit , same body size like the regular ones

A Winch Test-dscn2668.jpg

Sudarshan
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Old 6th December 2011, 14:21   #62
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Default Re: A Winch Test

I have seen this alternative Anchoring technique in a Mag/book ( some 20 yrs old Australian Issue ) , to be used in sand particularly , & in absence of regular anchors while winching .

Just want to know if anyone has tried like this .

Here it is to share with you

A Winch Test-scan0011.jpg


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Old 21st November 2012, 12:41   #63
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Came across this brilliant article here:

http://www.4x4training.com/Articles/...lkThrough.html

and

http://www.4x4training.com/Articles/...Winching2.html

Thought i'd share it from there:

Quote:
If you spend any significant amount of time in difficult terrain, youíre bound to encounter a recovery situation at some point. It could be either your vehicle or someone elseís. And a winch may be the proper tool at that time. This is a good time to review recovery, and winching in particular.

Keep in mind that these tips and the information provided on the bandana are not a substitute for proper training, sound judgment and quality equipment.

Every winching operation should start with a plan in your mind as to how youíll rig it up. Winching is a risky procedure; proceed very slowly and methodically. Youíre dealing with material and parts that are subject to a tremendous amount of force. A mistake can be fatal, as I pointed out in ďDonít Lose Your Head While Recovering a Vehicle.Ē Take your time.

Winching begins with a walkthrough. You want to inspect all parts and lines while the system is under light tension. If everything looks good, you can power up and proceed with the recovery.

The vehicle doing the recovery is kept in neutral with the emergency brake on. Having the transmission in neutral protects the parking pawl. Chock the front wheels if you can. (Some people even anchor this vehicle to a tree or other vehicle.) You do not want that vehicle to move. Start the winch slowly so you take up some of the slack.

Lines that are slack while on ground take on a new dimension when under tension. You need to check them before proceeding with the recovery. The lines may be binding or twisting. They could be rubbing against an edge on the bumper or other body part. In some cases the lines end up right over a taillight. Under load those lines will smash the cover and bulb.

Check all connections. Start at one end of the line and work your way through. Are any connections about to be pulled through the pulley? Adjust as needed.

Keep the engine running, or its battery will be drained dry. Even though the emergency brake is on, someone should be in the recovery vehicle applying pressure to the brakes. Now review the winch cable as it is leaving the winch. Does it leave at greater than a 15 degree angle? If so, it will start to pile up on one side of the drum, causing the cable to snag and possibly break that side of the winch. If you see the cable starting to pile up, stop winching. Disconnect the cable, pull it out manually, and wind it up neatly. Always start with your cable properly wound on the drum. Then, consider moving the recovery vehicle or pulley to decrease the angle of pull.

When you winch at greater than a 15 degree angle, thereís a greater chance of the cable rubbing or getting caught on the bumper of the recovery vehicle. There may be times when you have no choice but to winch at a severe angle. Just watch the cable closely.

As youíre paying out the cable, remember the Rule of 5: Keep at least five turns of cable on the drum at all times (eight turns for synthetic cable, because itís slippery). If you donít keep a minimum amount, the tremendous force of recovery will pull the rest of the cable right off the drum.

If you have a large blanket, toss it over the pulley. (See image. ) Called a parachute by 4-wheelers, this blanket will absorb some of the energy should the cable snap.

Keep an eye on the parachute during winching. It has a tendency to ride up the cable. You donít need that jamming into the pulley or winch. Stop the winching if necessary to move the blanket.

Position spotters to watch the lines and pulley. (They should off to the sides of the vehicles. No one should be in the path of the lines.) Winch slowly, and pay particular attention to portions of cables nearest the vehicles. Youíre watching for any binding, rubbing and twisting. Make sure, also, that the vehicle being recovered is behaving properly. You may need to stop the winching and adjust the whole arrangement.

Winch kit

All successful winching starts with a good winch kit. That kit should include a pair of sturdy, loose fitting leather gloves, a tree strap 15 to 16 feet long, a heavy blanket, four to six D-rings, and a piece of 70 grade 3/8Ē chain (10 feet is long enough). Letís look at each component.

Sturdy leather gloves are mandatory. Steel winch line develops small broken wires that will tear into your hands. Loose fitting gloves allow you to pull your hand out if the gloves become caught in the winch or line. A tree strap that is at least 15 feet long will be long enough to go around larger trees. This is done to protect the tree. A chain or cable will cut into the bark, mortally wounding the tree. Also, cable thatís wrapped around a tree and hooked back on itself develops a kink, which weakens the cable. The blanket is used as a ďparachuteĒ and placed over the winch line during winching to dampen recoil should the winch line break.

The chain, by the way, needs to be sturdy. Chain strength is given in grades; the higher the number, the stronger the chain. The Working Load limit (WLL) of the chain needs to be in the same range as the rest of your gear. Using higher grade chain (like grade 70) allows appropriate strength in a smaller link size which is easier to store and manage. Chain found at hardware stores is typically around a 43 grade. You will need quite a large link size at that grade. Go with 70 grade (or higher if you can afford it). Higher grade chains have each link welded for extra strength. Finally, having four to six D-rings puts more options at your disposal, especially for complicated winching.

What is working load limit?

I want to stress one thing: Never use equipment whose rating Ė either working load limit (WLL) or breaking limit Ė you donít know. If that information is not on the item, do not use the part. You could put yourself and everyone else in danger.

Working load limit, previously called safe working limit, is just what it means: the maximum stress that the item is designed to handle while in use. For safety reasons, the WLL of winching components is about one-fifth of the itemís breaking strength. Letís look at some examples. The WLL for grade 70 3/8Ē chain is 6,600 lbs. D-rings should have a minimum of 3/4Ē pin. That size has a WLL of 9,500 lbs. You can find the WLL for other sizes of parts on my winching bandana.

After purchasing the parts, if the WLL is only indicated on the package it comes in, make sure you transfer the WLL onto the part permanently. A permanent marker (magic marker or Sharpie) works great on tree straps, whose packaging you pitch after opening. For pulleys and D-rings, carve the information with an engraving pen into the metal. Original sticky labels and markings tend to wear off over time.

Also, never use a recovery strap for winching. Recovery straps are designed to stretch. That stretching builds energy, which is used to snatch a stuck vehicle free. A jerking action while winching is dangerous because of all the metal parts used. A recovery strap adds additional recoil to the winch rigging which is not desirable. If that strap were to break, youíd have a bunch of steel missiles flying around. (For more information on risks of using a recovery strap, see ďDonít Lose Your Head While Recovering a Vehicle.Ē ) For winching, we want a nice, steady pull.

Winching starts with a vehicle recovery plan

A winching operation is serious business and should be treated as such. Take your time to think it through before proceeding. The following steps are outlined under the Vehicle Recovery Plan section of the bandana.

Make sure everyone in the affected vehicle is safe, especially if the vehicle rolled over. Be prepared to provide first aid, but also make sure the vehicle itself is stable. If not, you may need to attach straps or cables first. Also, look for any hazards that could endanger the recovery crew.

Be careful if the vehicle is perched on its side. You donít want it dropping on top of you while youíre attaching the cable.

A vehicle recovery plan is essential.
Gather everyone together. Get their input, and determine the best course of action. Donít let anyone start rigging up until youíve decided what to do. If need be, appoint a leader. Have someone (that could be you) take charge of the situation. The winching should be done in an orderly manner.

Inspect the vehicle.
Are there any broken of dangling parts that could affect the recovery? What about leaking liquids? Do something to capture those until you can devote time to the environmental issues and clean up.

Determine your exit path, and get a lay of the land.
See if there are any obstacles youíll need to overcome. What is the best direction to go? Itís always easier to go downhill, but you may find that pulling a few feet up and over a hill or obstacle makes more sense.

If the vehicle is on a slope, set the emergency brake. You donít want the vehicle rolling downhill once itís freed up.

Plan the rigging.
Estimate your stuck load, and calculate whether you have the capability to handle the load. (See the sidebar for more information.) Pulleys add friction, so remember to add 10% to the load for each pulley used.

But pulleys also aid in pulling. A full discussion is beyond the scope of this article. Just remember that when you use one "moving" pulley, the winch ďseesĒ only one-half of the total load. (Only one-third, if two "moving" pulleys are used.) The total load may be 10,000 lbs. but the winch needs to pull only 5,500 lbs. (10,000 plus 10% for the pulley divided by 2).
Last step

Set up the rigging and double check it. Take up the slack and re-inspect for correct assembly. Proceed with the recovery.
Quote:
A number of variables go into estimating the stuck load:
Stuck Factors are:

Weight of the vehicle and its contents (aka Gross Vehicle Weight ĖGVW)
Type of material itís stuck in and how deep
Slope to be pulled up or down
Ground Conditions Resistance

For only shallowly stuck (i.e. no traction) here are the numbers for various types of ground. Donít try to memorize them all. Assume 70% for mud and 35% for any other type of ground. Those numbers will get you close enough in your calculations in the field.

% OF GVW
Pavement/ Hard Surface 2-4%
Grass 8-14%
Wet sand 15-20%
Gravel 10-20%
Soft, Dry sand 25-35%
Light, shallow mud 30-35%
Heavy, deep mud 40-60%
Deep Clay Mud 50-70%
Depth Resistance

(Overrides ground condition Ė use this instead of the shallowly stuck numbers above.)
Up to axles 100% of GVW
Top of the tires 200% of GVW
Hood / Body 300% of GVW
Slope Resistance

(Gravity has to be taken into account. It adds to the load for uphill pull)
Slope in degrees divided by 60 times the vehicleís weight up to a 60-degree slope. For a more severe angle, use 100% of vehicle weight.

Letís say the vehicle is on a 30-degree slope: 30 degrees / 60 = 50% x 5,000 GVW = 2,500 lbs.
Finally Calculation

Add ground conditions resistance (or depth resistance) to slope resistance for load estimate.
A Winch Test-winch-bandana.jpg
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Old 27th April 2013, 21:24   #64
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I hope not repeating it here .

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/718buwyBiFS.pdf

Found it worth

Sudarshan
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Old 29th April 2013, 13:01   #65
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Default Re: A Winch Test

It is possible. I have recovered myself out from such a situation on very soft sand in a stuck LC 100 series.

But remember, there should be at least 20 ft of distance between the vehicle an anchorage point, and the pit where the spare wheel is buried must be at least 6 to 8 ft deep which is a lot of effort.

With just a couple of people severe dehydration can occur in the desert while attempting this.

I had recovered an Australian National indeed after such an attempt and he was in pretty bad shape. Sent him to hospital in a chopper and drove his stuck Ford Expedition back to Dubai City.
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Old 29th April 2013, 13:11   #66
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Update

I am going to try a 125 Amp alternator on my Landy , keeping in mind the winch setup ( max current draw 450+ amps ), with two deep cycle batteries of 95 ah/hr connected in parallel

Inviting thoughts ,suggestions ,corrections

this is it have a look , a Lucas made 125 amp unit , same body size like the regular ones

Attachment 573496

Sudarshan
I can only say be very careful. A full auto cut off and changeover circuit must be attached. There have been frequent cases of Winch motor, alternator and switch burnouts, in an off road situation this can be most painful.

A deep cycle battery too must be of the very high end quality like Optima.

In India I dont think anyone will be pulling Land Rovers across a river stream.

For situations like some vehicle stuck in a mud pit the vehicles own power coupled with a tow rope snatch pull should usually do the job. If Winch is essential, a tug from a 9000 lb Warn or similar for a few yards backed by the vehicles own power should be enough. Sustained long period winching with tackle pulley blocks usually leads to more complications than success. Some Brits love to act out Camel Trophy antics in the desert usually with disastrous results, this comes to you with someone who has spent 18 years off road already and counting.
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Old 29th April 2013, 17:22   #67
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
I can only say be very careful. A full auto cut off and changeover circuit must be attached. There have been frequent cases of Winch motor, alternator and switch burnouts, in an off road situation this can be most painful.
Can you please elaborate this ? Do you by any chance mean the overload protection ? The two batteries in question are connected in parallel at a junction point & a 70 sq mm cable leads to the winch .


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In India I dont think anyone will be pulling Land Rovers across a river stream.
Yes you are right & I am not that kind of an offroader .
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Old 29th April 2013, 17:57   #68
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Default Re: A Winch Test

There is an IC 723 based overcharge protection circuit triggered by a Zener Diode. The standby battery need not to be charged all the time, but on demand only, failure of this this leads to a number of problems. Seperator circuits are available but fail frequently.

Same is the case with overload switches & relay circuits. Relay failures are common. Usually this is triggered by a transistor / IN series diode circuit. If the current is cut off the winching operation stops mid way. At this point the tension on the cable is very high with snapping chances on the maximum. And the number of people crowding and watching this exciting invention called winch could be two to twenty at any given moment.

Plus the extra weight on your vehicle, two batteries, winch, all that cable, wires, circuits its a lot of bother really.

Keep things simple. One deep drawing cycle battery, Optima or similar, 80 to 100 AMP / HR with a 9000lb rated winch is about all that is required. Leave the rest to the Goras to experiment and perfect. Once the perfect solution arrives from the outbacks of Australia we will implement it in the future.

Last edited by desertfox : 29th April 2013 at 18:02.
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Old 16th November 2013, 09:08   #69
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Found this link .

Might be useful for people who like to invest on recovery gear.

http://www.warn.com/blog/2013/11/15/...essories.shtml

Sudarshan
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Old 3rd June 2014, 15:24   #70
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Some good news for my fellow off roaders.

The best of Winches, Warn or Ramsey were assembled as per design in China for more than a decade.

Now a chinese brand, exactly as per the warn design, 8000 lb winch is available in Mayapuri Delhi for Rs. 18,000 to 19,000 I also bought one for 17,500.

The remote control is cordless!

It has been doing the job to perfection on a number of Thars here in Delhi / North India.

So go for it of you want a winch.

In every way the design, quality, construction is as per Warn.

Avail the opportunity there are plenty of stocks available.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 17:04   #71
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post

Now a chinese brand, exactly as per the warn design, 8000 lb winch is available in Mayapuri Delhi for Rs. 18,000 to 19,000 I also bought one for 17,500.

The remote control is cordless!
Shahid Ji,
Are you talking about Runwa winch ? if yes, than less i say is better. Never saw a trouble free piece, all existing owners (whom i know) swore never to buy this piece again.
But, if its not Runwa, than i am interested and curious !

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 6th June 2014, 00:05   #72
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Default Re: A Winch Test

I will get you the name, I saw it and then forgot it.
It is an exact replica of Warn, and as it is the last Warn I purchased was made in China as well.

One of our vehicles would have gone today to get this Winch fitted while another friend is useing it on his Thar CRDe and puts it to use quite often.

Last Sunday I am told a number of things happened when they were stuck in a river bed.

Last edited by desertfox : 6th June 2014 at 00:06.
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Old 6th June 2014, 12:18   #73
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I will get you the name, I saw it and then forgot it.
It is an exact replica of Warn, and as it is the last Warn I purchased was made in China as well.
Shahid Ji,
I am waiting eagerly for a detailed feedback from experienced person like you. If this winch is even 70% of Warn, i am ready with the order of half dozen to start with.
BY any chance, they were available at Tau Ji ki dukaan ?
Also, when are you visiting my hometown, last week few of our guests had a ball during night expedition.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 8th June 2014, 12:45   #74
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Some good news for my fellow off roaders.

The best of Winches, Warn or Ramsey were assembled as per design in China for more than a decade.

Now a chinese brand, exactly as per the warn design, 8000 lb winch is available in Mayapuri Delhi for Rs. 18,000 to 19,000 I also bought one for 17,500.

The remote control is cordless!

It has been doing the job to perfection on a number of Thars here in Delhi / North India.

So go for it of you want a winch.

In every way the design, quality, construction is as per Warn.

Avail the opportunity there are plenty of stocks available.
Hi,

Would like more details on the same. Please update. Would be great.

Thanks.
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Old 3rd July 2014, 10:51   #75
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Default Re: A Winch Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
I will get you the name, I saw it and then forgot it.
It is an exact replica of Warn, and as it is the last Warn I purchased was made in China as well.

One of our vehicles would have gone today to get this Winch fitted while another friend is useing it on his Thar CRDe and puts it to use quite often.

Last Sunday I am told a number of things happened when they were stuck in a river bed.
Dear Desertfox: Any update on this post your Mayapuri visits?
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