Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th September 2009, 10:00   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 26
Thanked: Once
Default Stopping on a steep incline?

Hi Guys,

If one needs to STOP while taking an inclined slope, Then How does one make sure NOT TO roll/slide backwards ?

Just imagine climbing up the banks of a stream or brook !. It just happend that I was doing just that and to my horror - suddenly halfway noticed
that A scooterist trying to do the same. This is what raised the above question. If I had stopped I probably would have slid backwards taking the
scooterist down. A scary thought. It was a good 40 - 50 degree & about 25-30 ft long slope.
jp_in_hyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 15:13   #2
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 46,511
Thanked: 80,136 Times
Default

Golden 4x4 rule : If the incline is steep, NEVER stop mid-way. Too many things can go wrong. For instance, losing your momentum on a slippery surface will make it impossible to continue the climb (after stopping). Getting the tyres to dig in will be a challenge. You can slide back and, in all probability, with reverse steering control.

Of course, on tarmac or high grip conditions, you can always use the handbrake and regular brakes. Keep a stone behind the tyre if required. Some guys slip the clutch, but that can lead to premature wear.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 16:16   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,042
Thanked: 3,584 Times
Default

I may add that if there is a verge/sidewalk then turn the wheels so that if the car rolls, the front wheels will impact into is and arrest the roll. Otherwise, also turn the steering (this will normally be the opposite to the first case) so that the car will roll into the side rather than into the middle of the road.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 16:28   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,240
Thanked: 600 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp_in_hyd View Post
A scooterist trying to do the same.
What was a scooterist doing on a trail?
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 16:55   #5
BHPian
 
vintagepoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jeddah/Hyd
Posts: 411
Thanked: 37 Times
Default

Long time back in 1991, I escaped the bad accident, I was driving my Fiat taking my parents to Apollo Hospital in Jublee Hills, Hyd. There were 2 roads to hospital, one was steep climb with narrow road and quick turns. I was driving Fiat in 2nd gear and maintaining normal speed, just half way in the steep climb, one lorry was coming down the hill and my speed with broken in the middle I have slowdown to give way to the lorry, hence I need to slowdown and change the gear to Ist and speed was broken. So I am in bad situation if I move my leg from brake to clutch the car moving back, steep down, hand brakes were not working. So I stopped the car with my parents in the back seat, waited for brother who was coming on scooter. When he came near my car I ask him to put one big stone on the back tyre and quickly change gear to Ist gear move the car. Lesson learned when driving steep climbs, always do in Ist gear and keep the hand brake in perfect condition, choose proper road if climbing.
vintagepoint5 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 16:59   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,053
Thanked: 5,303 Times
Default

good rules.
if one really wants to climb up slippery, slushy inclines i think the first rule is to use the right sort of vehicle for the purpose or else find an alternate route to get to the destination or choose better weather and road conditions to go there in the first place. if one is a novice, better not to try stunts of the unfamiliar kind in such conditions. Might damage one's own health as well as that of others, not to mention the poor vehicle (s)



Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Golden 4x4 rule : If the incline is steep, NEVER stop mid-way. Too many things can go wrong. For instance, losing your momentum on a slippery surface will make it impossible to continue the climb (after stopping). Getting the tyres to dig in will be a challenge. You can slide back and, in all probability, with reverse steering control.

Of course, on tarmac or high grip conditions, you can always use the handbrake and regular brakes. Keep a stone behind the tyre if required. Some guys slip the clutch, but that can lead to premature wear.
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 17:27   #7
BHPian
 
watashi75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 518
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagepoint5 View Post
So I am in bad situation if I move my leg from brake to clutch the car moving back, steep down, hand brakes were not working.
I am not sure I quite understand this. Do you mean moving the right leg from brake to accelerator? Or do you mean that your left leg is on the brake and you want to move it to the clutch?
watashi75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 18:12   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,781
Thanked: 694 Times
Default

If you have to stop on a steep incline, in some cases you can use your hand brake to prevent rolling back. After you are stopped on the incline you want to proceed. So, keeping your hand engaging the hand brake, start up in 1st gear with a little clutch burn and some revs. As you feel yourself beginning to climb, gradually release the hand brake. It works. It is not MY trick, it is an old, old trick going back to Henry Ford and his Flivvers. You need to learn how to confidently steer with one hand to do advanced driving. It's a good skill to have. If your hand brake is not working you are SOL and, frankly, you need to either keep the vehicle in primo condition or leave it parked until it is.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 7th September 2009 at 18:26.
DirtyDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2009, 23:13   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 643 Times
Default

For all those who learned driving only after the launch of the Maruti ( probably the first car in the country with hand brakes that worked) I would advice learning a technique called the heel and toe technique where you use the ball of your right heel to press the brakes and then press the accelerator with your toes while simultaneously releasing the brake.. This could help you on a car with bad handbrakes on a slope.
jyobeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2009, 00:27   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
Ym-enjn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 1,039
Thanked: 54 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
If you have to stop on a steep incline, in some cases you can use your hand brake to prevent rolling back. After you are stopped on the incline you want to proceed. So, keeping your hand engaging the hand brake, start up in 1st gear with a little clutch burn and some revs. As you feel yourself beginning to climb, gradually release the hand brake. It works. It is not MY trick, it is an old, old trick going back to Henry Ford and his Flivvers. You need to learn how to confidently steer with one hand to do advanced driving. It's a good skill to have. If your hand brake is not working you are SOL and, frankly, you need to either keep the vehicle in primo condition or leave it parked until it is.
Absolutely this is the best way with vehicles with hand brakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
For all those who learned driving only after the launch of the Maruti ( probably the first car in the country with hand brakes that worked) I would advice learning a technique called the heel and toe technique where you use the ball of your right heel to press the brakes and then press the accelerator with your toes while simultaneously releasing the brake.. This could help you on a car with bad handbrakes on a slope.
That is exactly what is to be done with vehicles without handbrakes. Press brake with toe, press accelerator with heel (of the same leg), let the rev go high(not too high, just maintain it at higher RPM), now leave half clutch, till the weight of vehicle go from brakes to engine, now leave brakes (keep checking that the vehicle is not moving back, otherwise press heel more for acceleration/more power) and then leave full clutch. With little practice you'll perfect this method.

Last edited by Ym-enjn : 8th September 2009 at 00:31.
Ym-enjn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2009, 01:41   #11
BHPian
 
vintagepoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jeddah/Hyd
Posts: 411
Thanked: 37 Times
Default I am not sure I quite understand this. Do you mean moving the right leg from brake to

Hi Watashi75

Yes I mean to say moving my right foot from brake to accelerator to move forward in first gear, which I was unable to do as the car was moving back whenever I tried to move my right leg from brake. So when the stone was placed by rear tyre then I move quickly.

As now everybody knows old cars rarely have handbrake in working condition, so our Fiat handbrake also not working at that time. Afterwards I was in KSA for more than 2 decades driving mostly American automatic car with perfect handbrakes in all steep climbs it works fine. I drove Chevrolet Caprice it has automatic gears normal drive plus 1 and 2 load gears which works when you are on steep drive never gave any problem.
vintagepoint5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2009, 03:01   #12
BHPian
 
Edsel Rulez!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 184
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ym-enjn View Post
Press brake with toe, press accelerator with heel (of the same leg)
Shouldn't it be the other way round? My right leg doesn't seem to lend itself easily to such a contortion!
Edsel Rulez! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2009, 07:15   #13
BHPian
 
watashi75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 518
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ym-enjn View Post
Press brake with toe, press accelerator with heel (of the same leg)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edsel Rulez! View Post
Shouldn't it be the other way round? My right leg doesn't seem to lend itself easily to such a contortion!
Don't take heel and toe literally. You press the brake with the ball of your right leg, not the toe. Slightly bend your feet and press the brake with the outside edge of your feet.

Name:  heeltoe.jpg
Views: 4628
Size:  22.8 KB

If you have tried this technique on stock cars it is not that easy. The brake and accelerator pedals are at different height and there is considerable gap in between.

The following link shows this technique pictorially -

Heel Toe Part 2, Spring Mountain Driving Tips - Corvette Action Center
watashi75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2009, 08:28   #14
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,042
Thanked: 13,486 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edsel Rulez! View Post
Shouldn't it be the other way round? My right leg doesn't seem to lend itself easily to such a contortion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by watashi75 View Post
Don't take heel and toe literally. You press the brake with the ball of your right leg, not the toe. Slightly bend your feet and press the brake with the outside edge of your feet.
Ym-enjn is not wrong about the toe, that's how it works in the Jeep. The photograph you have shown is of a car.


This thread is under 4x4 section and the original poster specifically mentioned offroad terrain. Most car based techniques won't work. He mentions banks of a stream, which means he might have forded through water. If he had drum brakes, that will be totally useless after getting wet. Now I can't understand how a scooterist was offroading behind the OP. I was very recently in a situation where I was stuck while driving uphill in a very steep incline. The brakes didn't work since the drums were slightly wet, the steepness over-rode the friction offered by the brakes. Only being in-gear helped me from rolling back. I couldn't even switch to reverse gear for a controlled reverse. Moment I depress the clutch, the Jeep starts rolling back, and reverse gear can't be engaged because it has no synchro-mesh. Having another vehicle behind you can be a nightmare in such situations.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2009, 11:37   #15
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 26
Thanked: Once
Default

DityDan -
Thanks for sharing that technique.
You hit it right on spot.
Appreciate the help.
..jp..
Guys,
By the way Folks am talking about a 4WD Bolero GLX.
Scooterist got behind me because it wasn't a track but
it was a place where a bridge was getting constructed,
So, lot of people trying to do the same as I was trying to do
jp_in_hyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Effect of parking on slope/incline DCEite Technical Stuff 18 19th February 2017 19:54
Delhi: Steep increase in one time parking charges luvtandon The Indian Car Scene 4 5th November 2015 16:32
Steep decline in profits filed by Volkswagen India in FY14 S2!!! The Indian Car Scene 30 21st July 2015 12:17
What is the correct way to park on an incline? Samurai Technical Stuff 105 23rd June 2011 08:40
Steep Hike in Service Charges by M&M Service Centres SS-Traveller Indian Car Dealerships 8 16th January 2011 23:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:04.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks