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Old 24th November 2009, 20:58   #46
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I don't think that should be a major issue. many of the service vehicles in the Raid are mahindra jeeps(Baleros) and with a 550 it is surely possible the army has a lot of them. I have done the journey more than a couple of times on two wheelers and surely have seen not so good jeeps on the way with Israelis loaded like goats doing Tanglang La( also K'la is much easier than T'la as the road is gradual and the air pressure in the region is better than T'la) I am not sure if the army will let you drive a jeep up to M'la. The only stranded vehicle I have seen in the Himalayas was an Indica and my friends RE350 apart from the crazy oil tankers which are a hazard going up pand comming down as well.


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Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
On road travel in Jeep is doable, provided your vehicle is in a Good condition. I have covered around 700KM in a day without any problem. Max speed being 80-90KM/H. For this trip, i am planning to drive on daytime only. Jeep will be installed with an A/C before this. And this journey will not end at Leh. I will cover K'La and M'la :-)

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--Sree--

Last edited by bhogalrajnish : 24th November 2009 at 21:00.
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Old 27th November 2009, 10:10   #47
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though you will face loss of power, you won't mind it much. diesel vehicles ply on these roads regularly without any modifications. mahindra pickups are quiet popular here.

anyways the roads are not that great that you can push your jeep around.
all i can say: "have fun and do share the pics"
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Old 27th November 2009, 21:28   #48
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Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
Dear All,

This is not just a doubt clearance question. I am planning to drive to Himalayas next year. Yes, you guessed it right - In my Jeep. I was discussing the same to lot of experts who had been there and done that. Some vouch for the Jeep, and some do not (Even the Jeep owners). This expedition was always my dream, and it really depends on all of your views that which vehicle i will opt for the same. Being a Jeep owner, i prefer to complete this in My Jeep. Don't discuses about any Plans/Routes for the travel as i haven't decided on that.

So, how bad would be a NA engine's performance on High Altitude, considering the lack of Oxygen? Mind you, i am not just planning till Leh, But even to Kardungla Pass. Some vouch for TC engines but, TC settings are not dynamic, less air means less intake pressure, so do you think that TC will work better? Then comes, TCIC with DI, i do not know any advantages of a DI over an IDI on high altitude, or does it have any advantages at all? I know MPFI and CRDe will be the ideal solution, for this, i Need to wait for Thar or Purchase a Brand new Gypsy. I wouldn't mind buying a new Gypsy for this - Now you know how important this dream is for me. But is it the final solution? Don't you think i should take this as a last step? (Purchasing A Gypsy) I love my Jeep and i don't want to get rid of that unless Behram sir is giving me a Thar within my budget .

I know its challenging, i myself has advised someone to go for a Gypsy for such kind of use. And i developed a respect over Gypsies over a period of time, by witnessing it's performance and reliability over various OTRs and long drives (Ex. Siddu's 20 years old MG410). But at last, "It's a Jeep Thing" So please pour in your views on this.

1) How Bad is a NA engine on High Altitude?
2) Is it so bad that we can't drive it there?
3) Any kind of Pump tuning will do the Job once we are there?

As i told you, it's not an attempt to learn the technology, but my choice of vehicle for this expedition depends on your opinions.

PS: Jeep will undergo a Rigorous Overhauling before this (Read, Suspension, Engine, Brakes et all) Though my engine is good for another 50k KMs.
PPS: Kardugla Pass is an Off-Road Drive, Hence posted in this section.

Thanks
--Sree--
A diesel NA engine at very high altitudes (10,000 foot +) is just aweful. I will feel like 50% of the power is missing when you cross Khardung La and other passes. I have done the Manali to Leh trip in my MM550 when it had the stock 75 hp 2.5 liter engine and the Jeep just was struggling on the uphills. Another major problem at high altitude is cold starting. Being a compression engine, the problem of starting in the mornings at high altitudes and low ambient temperatures may make starting a big challenge. Be sure to have a new battery, good starter motor, and park aiming downhill at night.

I have made the Manali-Leh trip at least twice in my NA MM550, so yes a jeep will make it, but I would recommend that you keep the payload to a minimum possible and definitely don't overload.

Be careful with pump tuning. High altitude would call for pump tuning to lean out the mixture (reduce fuel flow). This is to compensate for the reduced amount of oxygen that is fed to the cylinders.
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Old 20th April 2012, 17:28   #49
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sree - the trick is to maintain "required" air fuel ratio. As air is going to be less, you have to reduce the fuel injected. Power delivered at the flywheel will of course reduce. I presume your vehicle is an MM540. Please let me have details of the engine, is it XDP4.90 / XD3P? I would also like to have the transmission / axle ratios and the tyre size. I can then guide you on steps to be taken to recalibrate your fuel system to operate your engine on high altitude. I will have to gather this information so please give me some time.
Is it a Bosch Pump setting for diesel engine?
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Old 23rd April 2012, 10:26   #50
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I have wondered if you could strap a medical canister of air, like they have for people having trouble breathing, near the air intake and run a hose to the intake and run air into your motor when you need it. Just spit balling here, haven't worked out the details.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 20:29   #51
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Default Re: NA Engines at High Altitude

^^^
Work out the excess weight of O2 required per sec, and then work out how long the cannister is going to last. Quite apart from the practical problems of how to pressurise, and how to calibrate the FIP (assuming non CR)

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Old 14th May 2012, 10:40   #52
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Default Re: NA Engines at High Altitude

Any engine force induction or NA is going to loose power at altitude.

the drop in pressure is going to reduce cylinder filling.

At 18000ft above sea level the atmospheric pressure would be half of that at sea level which would mean your engine would be only 50% as efficient as it was at sea level.

In reality it might even be lower.

If cylinder filling reduces and oxygen levels are low, the engine will not rev into its powerband where volumetric efficiency will be at its greatest.

supercharging,turbocharging and higher compression ratios will help to restore power to some extent.but any system designed to run at or near sea level is not going to do too well at 18000feet.

on a NA engine changing the AFR will help to some extent,but as we cant really change the amount of air the engine is ingesting (only the amount of fuel being burnt).this will only help the engine to run as efficiently as possible restoring some power.

Plus you cant really tune a carb or FIP to run perfectly at all altitudes,so if you tune it for higher altitudes its going to run poorly at lower altitudes

ECU/ECM controlled systems with pressure and 02 sensors will run better because they can adjust dynamically based on various inputs like air tempraturebut they still cant change the amount of air the engine ingests+you might have to contend with poor fuel and choked air filter in a place like ladakh.

with so much going on makes you wonder why or cars/jeeps/bikes still go eh?

the easiest thing is to ensure your vehicle is in the best possible mechanical condition.
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Old 28th April 2013, 13:59   #53
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Default Chevy Cruze - Altitude sickness

Hello guys,
I observed a peculiar problem in my 2012 Chevy Cruze LTZ.
I regularly drive to Kotagiri, in the Niligiris which is at an altitude of about 1700 mts. I have never had any issues with the car.

However, on both my drives to Ooty (about 2200m above msl) I felt a drastic reduction in power and overtaking while going uphill became a nightmare.

It was almost as if the turbo had been left behind in Kotagiri. This happened on both my trips to Ooty. It starts around midway, lets say at an altitude of 2000m.
The moment I return to the same altitude, she starts to behave normally and gets back to being the diesel rocket that she is.

Now, I know this has to do with the thinner air, but isint the ecu and the O2 sensor supposed to compensate for that? I must mention that both the times it was a quick trip and the car may not have run for more than 30 kms in this condition. If the car behaves like this at 2000m, how would it cope at higher altitudes.

Could it be possible that the ECU needs more time to adjust to the new conditions?

Would disconnecting the battery for a few mins have helped?

Any of the other Cruze owners faced similar problems?
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Old 28th April 2013, 16:42   #54
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It was almost as if the turbo had been left behind in Kotagiri. This happened on both my trips to Ooty. It starts around midway, lets say at an altitude of 2000m.
The moment I return to the same altitude, she starts to behave normally and gets back to being the diesel rocket that she is.

Its the diesel used - Next time, please fuel up in Metupalayam or coonoor and see how she behaves.

The additives used in diesel in hill stations like ooty help overcome this issue. I've had a similar lack of power in a NA Tata Indica way back in 2002 and emptying all diesel and filling with diesel at Coonoor helped solve the issue.

And yes it is due to the atmospheric pressure etc etc and the Cruze is more modern and has sensors - And maybe that is defective
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Old 28th April 2013, 16:58   #55
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Default Re: Chevy Cruze - Altitude sickness

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Its the diesel used - Next time, please fuel up in Metupalayam or coonoor and see how she behaves.

The additives used in diesel in hill stations like ooty help overcome this issue. I've had a similar lack of power in a NA Tata Indica way back in 2002 and emptying all diesel and filling with diesel at Coonoor helped solve the issue.

And yes it is due to the atmospheric pressure etc etc and the Cruze is more modern and has sensors - And maybe that is defective
I will try what you have suggested. I rarely fill fuel here in the hills and always tank up in Coimbatore. Do they add additives in regular diesel up here? Coz I only use regular diesel. I had a Scorpio Crde before and I dont recall encountering such problems.

PS Mods: I am not sure if I have posted this issue in the right thread. Please shift this to the right section if required. My apologies.
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Old 28th April 2013, 17:07   #56
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Default Re: Chevy Cruze - Altitude sickness

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I will try what you have suggested. I rarely fill fuel here in the hills and always tank up in Coimbatore. Do they add additives in regular diesel up here? Coz I only use regular diesel. I had a Scorpio Crde before and I dont recall encountering such problems.

PS Mods: I am not sure if I have posted this issue in the right thread. Please shift this to the right section if required. My apologies.

Also ensure that the Air filter is clean! A clogged air filter has more profound impact on the engine at higher altitudes where the air is thinner than at lower level. Next time you head out to ooty , clean the filter or use a new one and see if the problem persists. If it does then its some sensor malfunction.

Normal diesel should work fine for ooty knd of altitutes! Additive diesels are required only when you head up really high up like leh ladhak!
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Old 28th April 2013, 17:09   #57
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Default Re: Chevy Cruze - Altitude sickness

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
I will try what you have suggested. I rarely fill fuel here in the hills and always tank up in Coimbatore. Do they add additives in regular diesel up here? Coz I only use regular diesel. I had a Scorpio Crde before and I dont recall encountering such problems.

PS Mods: I am not sure if I have posted this issue in the right thread. Please shift this to the right section if required. My apologies.
I was doing the same and used to fill up only in CBE before that incident in 2002. And yes after that, I always tank up in the hills in the first BIG fuel station I see.

Even I was surprised about the difference in diesel between cbe and coonoor
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Old 28th April 2013, 19:10   #58
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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Also ensure that the Air filter is clean! A clogged air filter has more profound impact on the engine at higher altitudes where the air is thinner than at lower level. Next time you head out to ooty , clean the filter or use a new one and see if the problem persists. If it does then its some sensor malfunction.

Normal diesel should work fine for ooty knd of altitutes! Additive diesels are required only when you head up really high up like leh ladhak!
Hey Sagar, I have a K&N filter which has barely done 10000 kms and I had cleaned it a few days back, so that cant be the issue. I think its got more to do with the sensors.
I will try the fuel like HEADERS suggested and see if it makes any difference. Like you said, 2000 m altitude is not much and I am quite surprised that it makes such a huge difference in performance, even if the sensor is malfunctioning, considering it is turbo common rail engine.

It will be interesting to see if other cruze owner have faced similar issues.
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