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Old 20th November 2009, 10:32   #16
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Dear Powertrain - although I appreciate all the guidance that you have got, I would refrain from even attempting something like this. You are going to spend a lot of time, money and effort which may not yield the desired result to you (getting parts from CST road Kurla is always at the bottom of my list of priorities for obvious reasons). Look at it this way. An Armada Grand weighs more, has a comparatively older generation engine and a suspension having a lot of friction in it (leaf springs). With a T18 / 4.88, what great offroad performance will you get? By the time you do all the non-standard things on it, the vehicle will age further, the engine may get into its periodic attention cycle etc. Would it be worth it? Think about it. In my opinion, no. But its your call.

I am in Mumbai this weekend. Send me a PM today. I'll give you my contact numbers. We can meet if required.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 20th November 2009, 10:39   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
The bolero was the first vehicle from mahindra to have front independent suspension, the Armada and Armada grand both came with leaf springs even on the 2wd models.
The Festara has independent suspension in the front....I think it came before the Bolero independent setup.

But yes, I dont remember seeing any Armada Grand with independent front suspension.

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 20th November 2009 at 10:43.
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Old 20th November 2009, 11:42   #18
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Dear Blue Thunder and all - there was only one dark green Armada (not Armada Grand) with IFS as well as coil spring rear suspension. It also had a Mitsubishi transmission with cable operated gear shifter. It was MH15K6578. Well, this is just one of the numerous things we keep on doing. Most of it gets filtered by the time you guys get to see it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 20th November 2009, 11:52   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
The Festara has independent suspension in the front....I think it came before the Bolero independent setup.

But yes, I dont remember seeing any Armada Grand with independent front suspension.
NO it came after the Bolero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Blue Thunder and all - there was only one dark green Armada (not Armada Grand) with IFS as well as coil spring rear suspension. It also had a Mitsubishi transmission with cable operated gear shifter. It was MH15K6578. Well, this is just one of the numerous things we keep on doing. Most of it gets filtered by the time you guys get to see it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
It was a prototype, not sold officially. The first experiment with IFS than the bolero was launched, the front wheels came out of the fenders right? due to the width of the setup.

Last edited by dinar : 20th November 2009 at 11:54.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 14:32   #20
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
@Suresh Stephen,

I was reading the specs of 2WD Grand and front axle is Dead Tubular and Stabilizer bar with an elliptical leaf spring what it had mentioned.
Thanks Siva. I was under the wrong impression
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Old 25th August 2012, 18:50   #21
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Default Re: Armada 2wd to 4wd possible ????

Hello guys, please accept my apologies first for reopening this thread after so long but it has been a lot of help for my soon to start project of my Armada 2.1 2wd to 4wd conversion. And as with no need to mention I am gonna need loads-n-loads of help from Jeep and Off-road gurus, I thought of starting my own thread only after actual start of the work or just continue with the long term one.

Well here's a small intro of my Armada.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...rm-report.html (My Mahindra Armada 2.1 2wd Long-term Report.)

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-photo4729.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-photo4730.jpg

Its a 1996 2112cc Peugeot engine'd, Kmt90 equipped (I believe) 2wd model. With us since 1998. Its a darling to me and my dad hence we decided for the conversion regardless of the problems and future reliability issues. We just don't wanna part with it. Also after being a part of 2010 Extreem offroader's monsoon Lonavala OTR and looking at pics of all other events here as well as on Facebool, I was dying to bring my own vehicle and be a part of all such events.

Now regarding the work. I have already started my research. Reading on 4x4 vehicles/technicals here for almost 3-4 Hrs a day. Met Mr Prakash at Atlas motors, Opera house today. Took some costs from him as well as some phone numbers. Worked on all the costs and estimates. Now all I am left with is a good workshop for all the work. I plan to do 4x4 conversion, suspension, engine/brakes overhaul at a specialized workshop and other few cosmetics by my self. And after all the work my intention is to maintain the identity of the Armada. Have to meet Rajeev Dham from RD's Jeep junction at Goregaon as I can trust him with all the work because I was there at his workshop when fellow mate Manan Patel's (Garrett T16) jeep's built was in process. Also the second reason being its at a walk-able distance from my place so I can be there everyday. I presume the work will need more than a month to be done.

Now on my list is:
Mahindra Bolero 4wd front axle/differential(Refurbished)
T18/BW transfer case (Refurbished, which ever I find, will need your suggestion)
Brand new propeller shafts and 4wd other related stuff.
Shackles from Bolero.
SPOA (am aware of all the negatives but just cant resist)
Engine and Brakes overhaul, electrical stuff and a bit of body work to be sorted.
2 Individual seats at the front (Refurbished)
Few other cosmetics like new Bolero's tail lamps, large fog lights, Big mirrors, exposed roll cage some bit.
Get rid of all the plastic stuff on the exterior and front metal bumper as well.

And after all this if my budget permits then.
Maxxis 31' 10.5s
Alloys to go with it (Refurbished)

Right now its running Bridgestone Dueler Hts they are gonna be terrible off-road i guess.
Waiting eagerly for the work to start but definitely not in any hurry and don't wanna take any wrong decision.
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Old 26th August 2012, 00:02   #22
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Default Re: Armada 2wd to 4wd possible ????

To convert to 4wd, strictly you need only these parts/steps AFAIK

1) front 58" CKBJ with diff from old pikup/armada/marshall/utili (51" from 540 will be too narrow for front track and a no-no)

2) exchange your kmt90 for kmt90+t18 Tcase with 2 lever system

i) alter the floor (for levers) near left foot accordingly and sound/water proof it as needed
ii) current GB cross member needs to be pushed behind by 5~ inches and the holes for it are already present since the chassis is 2wd/4wd ready.
iii) tricky one - cut the rear prop shaft accordingly to accomodate the length of tcase
iv) get a new/used prop shaft for front

3) check front prop shaft for clearance on ramp/articulation

4) get necessary bump-stops/rubber buffers for front leaf/chassis so as to not damage oil sump in otrs

5) get a Skid plate for GB Cross member

Nothing else is needed to make it offroad ready, rest all is purely as and when needed...
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:33   #23
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Default Re: Armada 2wd to 4wd possible ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
To convert to 4wd, strictly you need only these parts/steps AFAIK

1) front 58" CKBJ with diff from old pikup/armada/marshall/utili (51" from 540 will be too narrow for front track and a no-no)

2) exchange your kmt90 for kmt90+t18 Tcase with 2 lever system

i) alter the floor (for levers) near left foot accordingly and sound/water proof it as needed
ii) current GB cross member needs to be pushed behind by 5~ inches and the holes for it are already present since the chassis is 2wd/4wd ready.
iii) tricky one - cut the rear prop shaft accordingly to accomodate the length of tcase
iv) get a new/used prop shaft for front

3) check front prop shaft for clearance on ramp/articulation

4) get necessary bump-stops/rubber buffers for front leaf/chassis so as to not damage oil sump in otrs

5) get a Skid plate for GB Cross member

Nothing else is needed to make it offroad ready, rest all is purely as and when needed...

Thanks Santosh for the help. As per your suggestions.

1) Will see whats there available with the seller, but I've narrowed down to Bolero front Diff/Axle, I believe it would be good for Armada. Also its quite wide even in comparison to my Armada's front dead axle so with SPOA, won't be a problem. ??.

2) Ya that's on list but would I need to exchange my KMT90 too? Because what even Mr Prakash suggested me was the transfer case itself would be a direct bolt-on to my existing KMT90 unit. suggest.

i) and ii) Ya, ready for that (was unaware of (ii) though)

iii) and iv) New on both sides already on list

3) Well thanks a lot for that, will definitely do that with help and suggestions from gurus about the process.

4) and 5) well yes I missed it from the list but they are in too.

Thanks again.

Last edited by GTO : 30th October 2012 at 20:04. Reason: Do NOT use more than 2 smilies per post
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Old 26th August 2012, 06:34   #24
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Default Re: Armada 2wd to 4wd possible ????

oops - scratch the 'cross member moving a few inches back' point - i was thinking of a KMT-BA10 conversion I saw earlier this week and got confused!

and regd exchanging the GB - the reason is the length of the output shaft being around 5 inches longer in the 4wd GB to accommodate the Tcase length... thinking about it - check with a m&m spare parts dealer about the cost of that shaft along! - may cost a bomb but you may still retain the OE GB that came with your armada, you will need to rip open the GB and rebuild it though, so you will need to purchase only the tcase though, plenty available in scrap markets...
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Old 31st August 2012, 15:33   #25
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Default Re: Armada 2wd to 4wd possible ????

I know this is an old thread, and I'm no expert, but anyway, speaking to the basic feasibility / simplicity of the thing, I'll just say that most of the hill taxi drivers around Manali have traditionally changed completely over from 4x4 to 4x2 and back again seasonally, purportedly to save on fuel costs (though with the advent of lockout hubs, I suspect it would be impossible to justify the labor costs on the basis of actual math). But if one could forget the Armada's "Grand" part - as it was only in existence for a couple years and on a pretty limited basis - and just go with whichever old Commander / Marshal / standard Armada, and gear up the final drive appropriately to intended use, it might be a lot simpler.

Some of the 4x4 taxis around here were originally 2wd models. And I watched the semi-annual changeover being done yesterday on the 4x4 Marshal DI I'm in the process of buying, and was surprised to see that to convert 4-wheel to 2-wheel, they had not done any fabrication except lengthening the rear driveshaft by 3-4". No apparent issues with the rear axle offset, crossmember, whatever... Gearboxes appear same except for a provision for transfer case. The local guys do the same changeover with the older Peugeot-engined vehicles, too. My impression from earlier posts (not with deep analysis, mind you) is that some trouble can come in when you're trying to use a 5-speed on a Peugeot engine, due to sourcing issues. The BA-10 is a weak unit anyway, so probably better to stay away from it. Re: front axle housings, even the pickups / camper / utiliti's use compatible sizes and have disc brakes, which Marshals / Commanders didn't (but which mine has been converted to).

That's my non-technical answer (just in case the task seemed too daunting)...

regards, Erik
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Old 30th October 2012, 18:51   #26
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Talking My '96 Armada off-road conversion : 2WD to 4WD, SPOA and more

Hello guys,

After a long wait due to some problems here-n-there I am finally starting Off-road conversion of my beloved '96 Armada 2.1. The list includes 4x4 conversions, SPOA and a few interior and exterior modifications. I won’t discuss much about my Armada’s past and my ownership experience here because I already have a thread on it.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...rm-report.html (My Mahindra Armada 2.1 2wd Long-term Report.)

As it’s just me and my father who drives in my family and since I now also have a Royal Enfield for use along with my Swift and Dzire, Armada was now even less than a weekend driver. But neither me nor my father were ever willing to part from the Armada. And even though I attended just one OTR event till date, the 2010 Extreme Off roaders’ monsoon event at lonavala followed by Alfa Kilo challenge at Karjat the very next day, I just fell in love with off-roading! (I browse through all OTR event threads/discussions here on Team-BHP) The day I decided I will definitely own an off roader some day. It was this year that we planned for a MM550 (Ex-army) and we even stretched to Scorpio Getaway 4wd but later decided to do the mods on the Armada as for now.

Now, the list is as follows. Please feel free to suggest/point out if am mistaking anywhere as am a complete novice in off-roading.

• Front 58’ CKBJ differential (refurbished)
• Front propeller shaft (new)
• Freewheeling hub (new)
• Transfer case T18 (refurbished)
• SPOA.
• Shock absorbers from Bolero rear ones (new)
• 6’ Bolero shackles (new)
• Front and rear tow hooks (new)
• Jelly can.
• Maxxis Trepedor 31’ tires on body colored steel rims.
• Bolero dashboard.
• Getting rid of all plastic/fiber stuff on the exterior.
• Racing bucket seats.
• Fog lamps and a few decal work on the exterior.
• Bolero tail lamps.

Body work and paintjob is skipped for next year and so is the 5.38:1 differential gear set.

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1901.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1902.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1903.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1905.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1906.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1907.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1908.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1909.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1911.jpg

Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?-dscn1863.jpg

Thank you.
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Old 30th October 2012, 20:03   #27
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Default Re: My '96 Armada off-road conversion : 2WD to 4WD, SPOA and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagar iswalkar View Post
SPOA.
Why do you want to get SPOA on your Armada? Considering that you're new to the offroading scene, take baby steps. Do note that an SPOA will negatively affect your onroad behaviour, besides making the vehicle topple-friendly.

For other options to increase ground clearance, click here (Raising a Jeep's ground clearance : Options?)

Quote:
Racing bucket seats.
You want to go offroading on hard seats?

As we usually recommend, I'm going to advise you to take baby steps. First, focus on getting your Armada to perfect mechanical condition. Then, go offroading and see what modifications you need.

For the record, I drive a nearly stock Mahindra Classic with a ton of offroad kms under her belt.
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Old 31st October 2012, 12:40   #28
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Default Re: Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?

Hello Sagar,
First of all, a BIG to you. It's good to see that someone is living my dream!!!
When I started this thread, I was literally living & eating Jeeps!! Scouted for hardtop 4wd's from Mumbai to Kerala, without any luck. Hence thought of converting from 2wd to 4wd. But could not find any competent mech's back then. Also the Armada's that I saw were abused like anything. Finally had to abandon the idea. Your post has rekindled that romance!!

I Have some Q's for you -
1. Where is this garage that you're doing the job?
2. What is the approx. cost of this conversion. I know that its too early to arrive at a final figure, but about a ballpark figure?!

And finally, BEAT OF LUCK, MATE!!

Regards,
Varun
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Old 31st October 2012, 22:59   #29
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Default Re: Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Why do you want to get SPOA on your Armada? Considering that you're new to the offroading scene, take baby steps. Do note that an SPOA will negatively affect your onroad behaviour, besides making the vehicle topple-friendly.
Thanks GTO.
Yes am aware of the fact that SPOA will make my Armada's on-road behavior worse than ever, but in this case am willing to sacrifice handling and stability in favor of plain looks and off-road articulation.

Secondly I totally agree with your suggestion of taking baby steps towards off-road modifications hence as of now my main focus is on restoration and sorting out all mechanical and electrical problems, sorry I missed that part in the list but again there's loads of work involved for restoration and almost everything needs a complete overhaul. Conversion to 4wd, SPOA I couldn't skip that as it was already on list and I do not want to leave my Armada at garage for another week sometime later when the same can be done right now alongside the conversion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You want to go offroading on hard seats?
Never was on my list, I actually went to look out for Scorpio, Tavera or Innova seats but got a call from a friend's friend that he had those used racing buckets for sale for 6000/ pair. Couldn't wait and bought them quite a while ago with an intention to install them in my Swift. But my Father tried them, he is a bit too healthy and didn't fit comfortably in those seats. It would had been terrible for long drives which we always do in the Swift. Hence I then decided to install them in Armada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
I Have some Q's for you -
1. Where is this garage that you're doing the job?
2. What is the approx. cost of this conversion. I know that its too early to arrive at a final figure, but about a ballpark figure?!

And finally, BEAT OF LUCK, MATE!!

Regards,
Varun
Thanks Varun.

This thread was super helpful to me when I was planning for this conversion, I found all answers to my confusions. The garage is located at I.C. colony link road, Borivali west. This guy is our old and trusted mechanic and has an experience of more than a decade in Mahindra's and 4x4s.

As per the cost involved, just for conversion I am estimating 40,000/ including labor and exchange of old parts for new ones where-ever possible. For overall work am estimating around 70,000-80,000.
I insisted on buying just the transfer case and installing it on my original KMT90 despite of all part dealers suggesting me to exchange my GB for their KMT90+T18 assembly.

Updates. Parts shopping will be done on Sunday when my father (for bargaining) and the mechanic (for checking the condition of parts) will be accompanying me. Mostly will also convert front drum brakes to disc brakes. Suggestions?

Regards.
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Old 1st November 2012, 01:01   #30
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Default Re: Mahindra Armada - 2WD to 4WD conversion possible?

Hi Sagar,
Great that you are still not given up on your dream after such a long time. Being a newbie i still am getting the hang of all what the pros have suggested. In the process of restoring my Jeep in Coimbatore and like you this one is attached to the family as well. Check my thread on
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ding-jeep.html (My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..)

for the hassels that i have been through in getting it ready I hope to take delivery of it in sometime this diwali. Quick point i found was that the estimates will definately be higher and please do get a rough quotation. Since i'm also in the middle of the conversion i would be touching the 2 lakh barrier after building it from scratch.

My major reworks are
1. Front axle from mm540
2. MRCBT steering box(Rane brand for Pickup vehicle)

Regards on your mods for the Armada and good luck.

Barani
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