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Old 4th January 2010, 15:19   #16
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Check the fuel pump first, if its worn out this issue can crop up. Starts occasionally when working in prolonged cycle and then will become a constant pain.

Check fuel filter and lines also. Since its a new carb, i dont think anything cropping up that side. If the coating is not very wet over the carb, its just road grime and fume attracting the dust.

Regarding engine, change rings and see if it improves compression. If not you will have to open up and check what all needs to be changed.

Rough figure: Minor job will be 10k and major job will cost around 30-40k with all MGP parts.
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Old 4th January 2010, 16:55   #17
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Default Engine Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by abheekg View Post
The gypsy is at the mechanic's workshop getting checked up.
Mechanic could not diagnose the drop in engine issue yet and is working on it. So am I.
I am doing what I do in my practice. When I am faced with something that's new, I to read up and look into references for similar problems with the others which have been already documented. I'm doing the same here. lets see where my research leads me to.

He also says that engine is probably giving back compression (dunno what that means) and when I asked him about what was the best solution for this - he said that he will open the engine and most probably the piston rings will have to be changed. I asked him whether a complete engine work needs to be done and he said that it doesn't look necessary at this stage. but he said that he will check and tell me by tomorrow.
Hi Abheek,

1) Download the SJ413 Owner/Workshop Manual or ask Headers aka Vikram Ramprasad and GotZuk aka Vaibhav Malik on TeamBhp

1) Loss of Engine Power can be attributed to

i) Loss is compression.
ii) Improper Ignition Timing
iii) Inefficient Fueling Fuel System including Carb.
iv) Blocked air-filter.
v) Weak Clutch Cover Assy.
vi) Jammed Brakes obvious sign is the wheel disc of the offending brakes will be too hot to touch.
vii) Improper Lubrication in the Drive-Line; sign is Heat Build up and/or oil spilling out.
viii) inefficient cooling system.

2) Check the Compression of all the cylinders with a compression testing gauge and compare it to OE Specs. Back Compression is the desi term for loss of compression and excessive blow through.

2A) Check the Fuel Pump and Fuel System.

3) Then List out the necessary parts for the rebuild, including fuel pump and clutch assy.

4) Once you have the necessary parts and info you can start the rebuild.

5) Please go and check in person what the mechanic has to says and ask him to elaborate and point out

Opening and Engine is like opening the Pandora's Box, If your engine is loosing compression and the main oil seal is shot, please go in for a complete overhaul.

Otherwise just get the oil seals replaced. The catch is if later on you have to go in for a rebuild, then the purpose of this job is short lived.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 5th January 2010, 09:45   #18
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Guys,

When I was re-building my Bushranger last year, the mayapuri mechanic had told me that the engine was in a 'very good shape', and it required only Piston Rings and sleeves. Thus, we only went for these two parts, apart from new Oil Pump.

The engine performed well, and the vehicle was able to clear almost all obstacles at NIOC OTRs. However, the engine was very noisy (especially on high RPMs), and there was a constant clutter sound. I had also noticed engine mising a beat at low RPMs, and thus had advanced timing a bit. All Gypsy gurus had pointed out this noise factor.

Recently, the vehicle was unable to clear the pollution test, and was denied the certificate. When taken to Motor Craft (a fellow Gypsy veteran Rahul is GM there), we found that the engine oil had turned BLACK in just 2000 km, and was very thick too. This was because of back pressure of gases (??). Also, the noise of engine was due to Gazan Pin (hope the spelling is correct). The compression in 3 cylinders was 11, and 10 in the 4th one. The valves & head also needed work. All in all, the engine was not built properly. There was no immediate threat, and the engine could perform for another 10-15K without any real damage.

Still, as I plan to be there in Desert Storm'10, we have gone in for complete overgaul of engine & head. The vehicle should be ready by this weekend. Just an update from my side.

So, agreed, please check for all the above symptoms, if this may be of any help.

Cheers!

ashish
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Old 11th January 2010, 15:45   #19
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Hi Ashish

How much is the engine rebuild costing? Are you getting the carb refurbished as well?

Cheers
Ankit
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Old 11th January 2010, 16:42   #20
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Hey Ankit,

As of today morning, the engine was installed and cranked yesterday evening, and behaving nicely. The run-in (static) is going on. I may get the vehicle tomorrow evening. Lets see. The cost estimate given was 20K approx (engine overhaul + complete head work + New valves), I will know of the final amount tomorrow only.

I am using a modified carb (done by Rahul, since this was fitted in his rally Gypsy earlier), and we are refurbishing that too.

Will update starus ASAP.

Cheers!

ashish
Ps: pl provide ur cell no. Need to check on lockers. mine is 9871104490. Tks.
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Old 11th January 2010, 19:12   #21
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Hey Ashish
why did the estimate increase so much?? When we were there the estimate given was a little less!!!
When would you be going to get the Bushranger home?

Last edited by harjeev : 11th January 2010 at 19:13.
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Old 14th January 2010, 09:34   #22
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Hey Harjeev,

Bushranger was home yesterday evening, however, there seems to be some problem with the starter, so the technician will rectify it today.

The engine, is performing brilliantly! there is no noise now (except the loose tapits), and the pollution reading CO2 is 1.4 (allowed upto 3.0), without cat-con.

The total cost was 17.8K, which also include The Flywheel (1200), front windshield (1600), starter repair (1000) and accessories (1000), which were not estimated originally.

Cheers!

ashish
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Old 14th January 2010, 10:44   #23
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Thats great!!! Originally the budget was 12k and the extra items 4.8k.
In my opinion 13k not that bad for an engine overhaul!!!
You better start driving the BUSHRANGER and complete 1k kms before the DS'10. And if you wanna do the Ambala day trip I am game for that!!!

PS Ahsish, Why don't you open a new thread for your bushranger? Atleast you can start sharing the experiences from the present and always upload the pictures from day 1!!!
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Old 14th January 2010, 10:55   #24
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Great idea Bro, better late than never!

Will start Bushranger thread ASAP.

Cheers!

ashish
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Old 20th January 2010, 13:07   #25
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Default Update after one week of jeep building + body mods

Hi All
The engine has been overhauled.
And when the vehicle was standing engineless I decided to get some modifications done to the body which I had planned since long.

I have disliked the bland front bumper of the gypsy from the beginning and have always thought of making the front more interesting. While there are a lot of aftermarket options in the US, there are hardly any in India. Recently though some of the enterprising guys among us like raj kapoor and allan have been giving us some options of bumpers and body parts.

Anyway, I had a design in mind and with this rough sketch I approached my metal man - gajanan bhau (an amazing man here in Nagpur who in my opinion can do anything with metal)

And here is the result of what we created. Its been crafted out of 14 gauze sheet metal.
Its still not 100% finished the bumper is yet to be painted. I had to slightly alter the power steering box and the hydraulic pipes to facilitate fitting of this bumper. I am planning to cover the gaping hole with some diamond plates or something similar like the last pic. Take a look at the pics to see what was done.
Gaju Bhau informs me that he has already had about 3 enquiries to build the same bumper from ppl who have been visiting his workshop during the bumper building process. He's been trying to convince me to get this bumper mass produced !!

Next planned mod long pending was a full roll cage - front and rear- both for the purpose of safety and photography during jungle ghooming. Presenting pics of the roll cage building process. Made out of 1.5 inches CR pipes.

Next I am building a new soft top to suit wildlife photography. This is yet to be executed. Materials have been procured and the idea discussed with the tailor.

I am also slightly modifying the power steering of the vehicle - I am increasing the size of the pulley and realigning the pump as the belt has slipped a few times - a pulley from the water pump of alto was the donor in this process.

I am also doing a very slight shackle lift of the vehicle by elongating the front shackles by 1.5-2 inches so as to get about 1 inch body lift. No pics of this yet.

The engine building has costed me appx 8k in parts. bill for labour is yet to come. I have driven her 100 kms after the engine rebuilt. Some pics of an impromptu photo shoot that I did with the half finished gypsy. Got average of only 10kms to a litre (which mechanic says is normal after a rebuilt)
Please enlighten me how and what I should be doing from here on to get good engine performance.

Enjoy the pics.

regards,
Dr. Abheek Ghosh
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Carb Gypsy problem : ocassional Drop in engine power during highway driving-picture-156.jpg  

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Old 20th January 2010, 15:38   #26
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Nice bit of update Abheek , was wondering what had happened to the diagnosis part . Please do update on the labour costs of the engine rebuild . Also if you could please PM me the detailed costs and lists of parts replaced during the rebuild process .
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Old 21st January 2010, 10:02   #27
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Great going Abheek...had missed out this thread. SO what new??
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Old 21st January 2010, 19:57   #28
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You say you are losing power. We need you to describe that to us in more detail. For example, when you lose power does your revolutions per minute, RPM, change? I mean, does the engine just slow by itself? Or does the RPM remain the same but no power seems to get to the wheels and you slow down? If your clutch was slipping because it is about to fail then your engine would maintain or increase rpm but because of the slippage, drive to the the wheels would diminish. If the clutch was saturated with oil from an oil leak elsewhere the clutch could slip even if nothing was wrong with it.

But if I were to take a stab in the dark in your case, since after you turn off the motor and start up again and the problem goes away, I am wondering if you have an electrical short somewhere. Maybe in the ignition switch itself. I have even seen cases where a heavy set of keys in the ignition would cause a short. It might also be a short in the ignition system. Also, I would have an electrical guy examine all the wiring and look for a problem such as wire chafing. Chafing is when insulation wears away from a wire due to vibration and it intermittantly shorts out. This is quite common in all vehicles.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 21st January 2010 at 20:08.
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Old 9th February 2010, 17:14   #29
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Abheekg,

What is the outcome of engine overhaul. Problem has been solved? If yes, what caused the sluggishness ?
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Old 9th February 2010, 17:57   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashish B View Post
Guys, Also, the noise of engine was due to Gazan Pin (hope the spelling is correct).

When I was re-building my Bushranger last year, the mayapuri mechanic had told me that the engine was in a 'very good shape', and it required only Piston Rings and sleeves. Thus, we only went for these two parts, apart from new Oil Pump.


Cheers!

ashish
Gudgeon Pin is the british term, wrist pin is the American term.
I'm just adding something here for all new owners of Army or second hand petrol vehicles. Please do not agree to a mechanic using sleeves, with old pistons and new pistons rings. Always insist on the next oversize piston and ring set. If you put a sleeve now to save money by using less new parts you may regret this decision when you have to put in new pistins the next time. As for Diesels the 540 comes with wet liners and new pistons as a set.
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