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Old 15th March 2010, 11:44   #46
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Mine has a mechanical fan as well - will be replacing it with an electric fan and carrying a spare electric fan as well just in-case.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 12:12   #47
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The 3 core copper radiator is in, the air deflector installed as should be, both the inside and outside electric fans working properly, mobil 1 put in, coolant proper, Vehicle still heats up at High RPM!!!!
On way to khandala, on the expressway and before that in traffic, no heating without AC. Then AC switched on, and temperature started going up to nearly boil point. Switched off AC and after 10 minutes of running at same cruising speed of around 80kmph, temp went back to nearly normal.
On Reaching Khandala, did a check, and at standstill revved the engine to near max, and held her there with AC on, again temp went up to boiling point!! Fail to understand the reason.
Only thing left is to check if water pump fouls after certain RPM, since belt is not slipping, or is the compressor taking excess load[its a small compressor, but makes a funny sound when on] After this will get the car checked at MASS, for ignition timing or gasket problem[no oil in water or vice a versa]
It is something only at Constant High RPM
Very Very Wierd problem?
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Old 22nd March 2010, 14:58   #48
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Check compressor first, then check the fin's of the ac radiator, it should have similar pattern to help the air flow to the coolant radiator.

And please note that Gypsy doesnt have electric fan for radiator, unless it was changed when the ac was installed. If so please revert to the original belt driven one for the coolant radiator.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 15:02   #49
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Have you got it checked by Apollo at Lonavla? In my experience, they are very good at diagnosing problems.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 16:58   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
And please note that Gypsy doesnt have electric fan for radiator, unless it was changed when the ac was installed. If so please revert to the original belt driven one for the coolant radiator.
+1 on that, i was running the stock belt driven fan and things were under control.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 12:44   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
+1 on that, i was running the stock belt driven fan and things were under control.
I am totally lost. But will still do the change of water pump as Abheekg suggested and switch from electric to mechanical fan. The compressor is checked and Ok.
Tejas, Apollo, where at Lonavala?
Point is this is some very small problem which we are not able to identify.
after all this will do a compression test also, though car has done 10000kms only.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 12:48   #52
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Why did you remove the OE fan in the first place? Electrical fan addition is only for the AC radiator grill, havent heard of anyone putting one for the radiator unless its in addition to OE fan?

Am confused, more so since we dont see any pics
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Old 23rd March 2010, 13:14   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Why did you remove the OE fan in the first place? Electrical fan addition is only for the AC radiator grill, havent heard of anyone putting one for the radiator unless its in addition to OE fan?

Am confused, more so since we dont see any pics
This was done by the MASS at Pune who installed the AC and PS. They it seems have installed a wagon R or similar style electric fan. Will take pictures and post next week.

Last edited by scooby05 : 23rd March 2010 at 13:21.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 14:03   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby05 View Post
I am totally lost. But will still do the change of water pump as Abheekg suggested and switch from electric to mechanical fan. The compressor is checked and Ok.

after all this will do a compression test also, though car has done 10000kms only.
How big is the electric fan?? is it as big or bigger than the mechanical fan??

i suggest if the electric fan is much smaller and has less wings then change the fan first and test her.

BTW upto what level is the temp going??

Dont think the compression test is required unless she is drinking eng oil.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 14:13   #55
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Here are some pics of the electric fan on my Gypsy. It should be conned via a thermostat and auto cut off switch. Works very well on my Gypsy. Since the rev speed of the electric fan is high is provides better cooling at crawl speeds where your mechanical fan would just allow the vehicle to overheat.

I will suggest this again. Get the condenser shifted to under the vehicle between the chassis rails just before the rear diff. You problem will be solved.
Attached Thumbnails
Gypsy '09 Heating problems!-e-fan-3.jpg  

Gypsy '09 Heating problems!-e-fan-7.jpg  

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Old 23rd March 2010, 14:41   #56
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@scoob: ahh! now things are much clearer, i was scratching my head to figure out where the electric fan came from. Starter please open the hood and check once in a while!!! Just kidding.

Please try with OE fan and check, it might even work well with the OE radiator itself since yours is a brand new gypsy. Reason being the comments below, which is not the right way to do it. I have learned this lesson long back when i experimented with an amby

@Goslow: I wouldnt approve your gypsy fan installation, why?

The Radiator fan and shroud are too small for the big "mother of all" radiators. Ideally the shroud should cover the whole core and fan should be big enough also. Here you are leaving close to 20-30 % exposed without any fan to pull the draft in. Add another 10% which is completely blocked by the shroud edges.

I can assure you this engine will heat up if the ac grill sits in front or its a miracle.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 14:52   #57
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I think we are talking on the same lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

Please try with OE fan and check, it might even work well with the OE radiator itself since yours is a brand new gypsy. Reason being the comments below, which is not the right way to do it. I have learned this lesson long back when i experimented with an amby

@Goslow: I wouldnt approve your gypsy fan installation, why?

The Radiator fan and shroud are too small for the big "mother of all" radiators. Ideally the shroud should cover the whole core and fan should be big enough also. Here you are leaving close to 20-30 % exposed without any fan to pull the draft in. Add another 10% which is completely blocked by the shroud edges.

I can assure you this engine will heat up if the ac grill sits in front or its a miracle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
How big is the electric fan?? is it as big or bigger than the mechanical fan??

i suggest if the electric fan is much smaller and has less wings then change the fan first and test her.

BTW upto what level is the temp going??

Dont think the compression test is required unless she is drinking eng oil.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 15:07   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
I think we are talking on the same lines
KSM My AC guy has categorically said that with mechanical fan the car will heat with AC on in slow traffic. Atleast its not heating in slow/city at all!! Moreover, with my experience in rallying days, I remember that even without a fan we could do without heating, since the Air Thrust at high speeds was itself enough to go thru the radiator and cool it. Here we have a electric fan working full speed + the air thrust of high speed thru the radiator, and both together are not able to cool the temperature down!! Deflectors are also put to direct the airflow thru the radiator.
Please understand there is some problem we are not able to catch. Its nothing to do with fan pulling air thru the radiator IMO.
Electric fan pulls air at fixed high speed thru 70% of radiator and is 5 mm from raditor, whilst mechanical fan which is atleast 40mm away pulls partial air thru radiator balance it sucks from around the engine area, since there are no shrouds around to limit suction only thru radiator, so I feel electric is more efficient.

Last edited by scooby05 : 23rd March 2010 at 15:12.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 15:25   #59
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I still insist that you should try it out and there is a shroud around the OE mechanical fan also IIRC (atleast saw one when i last checked Khan's Spidey, and its got stock stuff). The electric fan helps in slow speed cooling, i agree, and that is why its is "added" in front of an existing radiator to push the air (again spidey has this set up for extreme OTR's).

Yes kewl draft helps and you can drive without a fan at higher speed, even the ECU controlled modern car radiator fan kicks in at high temp and with high speeds and low temp it cuts off. BUT with an ac grill in front, its the hot air which gets thrown in and that increases the load of the radiator even at high speed. If you observe modern cars you will see both the fans kicking in when AC is switched ON or atleast after few seconds if you are idling the vehicle. Your installation in theory is 100% correct.

So if after installing AC vehicle has a heating problem, people go in for bigger radiator while retaining the fan (maybe larger/more number of blades) retaining the shroud.

The gap between fan is not really a problem, almost all vehicle with mechanical fans has that, to avoid the fan fins from hitting radiator when engine shunts/chassis flex etc. But the design of the shroud and fan blades takes care of this gap.

This is my humble opinion which is derived from experience in real life. I shall stop now.

Last edited by Jaggu : 23rd March 2010 at 15:27.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 16:19   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I still insist that you should try it out and there is a shroud around the OE mechanical fan also IIRC (atleast saw one when i last checked Khan's Spidey, and its got stock stuff). The electric fan helps in slow speed cooling, i agree, and that is why its is "added" in front of an existing radiator to push the air (again spidey has this set up for extreme OTR's).

Yes kewl draft helps and you can drive without a fan at higher speed, even the ECU controlled modern car radiator fan kicks in at high temp and with high speeds and low temp it cuts off. BUT with an ac grill in front, its the hot air which gets thrown in and that increases the load of the radiator even at high speed. If you observe modern cars you will see both the fans kicking in when AC is switched ON or atleast after few seconds if you are idling the vehicle. Your installation in theory is 100% correct.

So if after installing AC vehicle has a heating problem, people go in for bigger radiator while retaining the fan (maybe larger/more number of blades) retaining the shroud.

The gap between fan is not really a problem, almost all vehicle with mechanical fans has that, to avoid the fan fins from hitting radiator when engine shunts/chassis flex etc. But the design of the shroud and fan blades takes care of this gap.

This is my humble opinion which is derived from experience in real life. I shall stop now.
Shall do all thats suggested!! Please do not Stop!
Yes with AC or when temp high Both Fans work together. I can see thru the condensor and radiator so choking is not an issue. The radiator is copper 3 core.
Shall Crack this problem and NOT Give Up.
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