Gypsy '09 Heating problems!

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by scooby05

What is a weep hole?....


Both the electric fans and the water pump work fully at high rpm, checked.

Weep hole....My Automotive Experiences - Engine Water Pump


How do you know your water pump is working "fully" ??? Just because you have seen water splooshing about when you take the cap off does not mean the pump is good.

I think either the pump is failing (bearing going sour) or your a/c condenser is failing. Extra load ala my suggestion with the a/c OFF may shake something loose.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

The man said that the HIGH SPEED heating problem STOPS when he turns off the a/c. When there is no a/c going, there is no problem. Therefore placement of components is not the issue; and air flow is ok.

There is no problem at low speed or stopped in traffic. This is the greatest heat producing situation and his current configuration is handling this heat.

I wouldn't agree to this:
a) AC running increase the heat falling on the radiator and hence, if the air flow is not correct or insufficient, engine will shows signs of heating up which is not there otherwise.
b) Slow speeds and traffic, partially yes, they induce strain BUT real test is when engine has to lug (in heavy ghat section) or when its doing high rpms.

[scooby05]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Weep hole....My Automotive Experiences - Engine Water Pump


How do you know your water pump is working "fully" ??? Just because you have seen water splooshing about when you take the cap off does not mean the pump is good.

I think either the pump is failing (bearing going sour) or your a/c condenser is failing. Extra load ala my suggestion with the a/c OFF may shake something loose.

Thanks Dan, Yes there is absolutely no coolant or moisture in the Weep hole. The car has done 10500kms only, I checked for pumps bearing sound but found it perfect. will ask mech to open and check pump today.
One more thing that may ring a bell to your mind. In standstill I raced the engine with AC on for 10 minutes, high rpm. The temperature went to near boil, switched off the AC and let the car idle for 10 minutes and temperature back to half way mark, then without AC again revved the engine high to around 4000rpm+ and held there for 10 minutes and again the temp started to go up, went to 3/4, so concluded that even without AC the temp goes up at High rpm though takes much longer. At 3000rpm nothing happens! Both fans work full and the air thrust thru the condensor and radiator is Very good.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by scooby05

then without AC again revved the engine high to around 4000rpm+ and held there for 10 minutes and again the temp started to go up, went to 3/4, so concluded that even without AC the temp goes up at High rpm though takes much longer. At 3000rpm nothing happens!

Both fans work full and the air thrust thru the condensor and radiator is Very good.

First part is in contradiction to second part.

Please revert to original fan and do the experiment to confirm my theory is right or wrong, it will take hardly an hour to do this.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

First part is in contradiction to second part.

Please revert to original fan and do the experiment to confirm my theory is right or wrong, it will take hardly an hour to do this.

We will find it. Does not matter too much which 1 hour test we do first. I do not see a clear contradiction in his description. Hard to know what the three quarter hot indication means when the gage is accurate, but not precise.

[scooby05]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

First part is in contradiction to second part.

Please revert to original fan and do the experiment to confirm my theory is right or wrong, it will take hardly an hour to do this.

Jaggu, the original fan blade and shroud was not recieved back from the dealer, and now not traceable. The market or MASS does not have them also. So for a trial to order and get them? I am confused.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by scooby05

Jaggu, the original fan blade and shroud was not recieved back from the dealer, and now not traceable. The market or MASS does not have them also. So for a trial to order and get them? I am confused.

Oh shoot! that's bad. Kick their butt and get the parts

Ok could you atleast post a picture of the inside fan and the current shroud that comes with this. Would be helpful for me to make a comment then.

[GoSlow]

Originally Posted by harjeev

@Ankit
Have you get the air con serviced and running??? Because last I remember it wasn't running.

Further was first the condenser in front of the radiator. Additionally I remember at the Chandigarh OTR last year the aircon was not on and still your gypsy was overheating in 4x4 H/L and you had changed the radiator to get that sorted out.
Any conclusions why was that?

Hi Harjeev

The condenser was placed in front of the radiator for a long time. I got it moved underneath when I got the Diesel engine installed. The Aircon always worked but it used to overheat due to the rubbish radiator installed by Mayapuri guys. I got that changed to a 4 core copper radiator so all overheating problems have been sorted out. The AC is effective with the 2 seater soft top that I use from time to time. In a full body soft top (which I was using in Chandigargh) the AC is not effective at all.

Cheers
Ankit

[wanderhermit]

Originally Posted by starter

Hey Jaggu,
I am planning to leave the Gypsy for my second service in a couple of weeks. Was planning to get the AC installed while i leave it for service.
For now, i have no AC. If i just run the Gypsy with the head lights on or just the stock blower on, the temperature needle climbs up and stays exactly in the middle (50% mark). But, in the day time, when i do not use the head lights, the temperature needle stays at around 40% mark.
Is this common in a stock Gypsy?
Or is my Gypsy already giving me hints of not getting the AC installed!
Cheers,
Deepak

With so many experts around, I just concede that I am a novice.

And would just add my observation.

In my Gypsy, the temp needle climbs up when I switch on the headlights. I have installed 90/100 bulbs thru a relay. The needle rises and stays at the top bar of the themometer icon on the temp meter display console. The needle is at around 75% mark. It is just little below the cut mark on the temp meter above which the car is in for serious overheating.

And it climbs down within 5 mins I switch off the lights. And I have discussed this problem with many professionals garage owners specializing in Gypsy. And the standard answer is that actually the gypsy is not heating up. It is the electrical malfunction that shows the high temp in the temp meter.

So by corollary, by switching on two very powerful electric fans connected to the battery directly can cause a similar malfunction.

So basically, you must find out whether your car is actually heating up or is it just a malfunction of the electric temp display meter.

So technically, your Gypsy should not heat up with stock mechanical fan at any speed above 50 kmph. If it will overheat with this setup, it will at lower speed only cause of slow rpms of the stock fan.

One more thing. I have seen some leakage of coolant (around the coolant tub) in my Gypsy. And few other bhpians have also noticed the same. Looks normal and not a sign of overheating.

One more thing. Goslow has a serious point. The condenser can be safely relocated to the underbody of the vehicle.

[starter]

Originally Posted by wanderhermit

In my Gypsy, the temp needle climbs up when I switch on the headlights. I have installed 90/100 bulbs thru a relay. The needle rises and stays at the top bar of the themometer icon on the temp meter display console. The needle is at around 75% mark. It is just little below the cut mark on the temp meter above which the car is in for serious overheating.

And it climbs down within 5 mins I switch off the lights. And I have discussed this problem with many professionals garage owners specializing in Gypsy. And the standard answer is that actually the gypsy is not heating up. It is the electrical malfunction that shows the high temp in the temp meter.

Dear Wanderhermit,
Yes, this is exactly the case with my Gypsy as well.
The temperature needle would be slightly above the 50% mark.
It is good to know that this is only an electrical issue.

One more thing. I have seen some leakage of coolant (around the coolant tub) in my Gypsy. And few other bhpians have also noticed the same. Looks normal and not a sign of overheating.

I've also had this problem. I've fixed this by adding a thin plastic sheet like a washer at the neck of the coolant tank.

Cheers,
Deepak

[King413]

Usually when the thermostat valve goes faulty the engine will over heat and reach max temperature for a 10 min drive even on the high way, the best way of handling this issue is to check the thermostat valve and replace if car is used in cold temperatures else eleminate the spring, blocker unit from the valve and fit it back. Only problem of running the gypsy without the thermostat valve is takes a little longer to heat and reach optimum temp.
Prithvi

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by scooby05

Both fans work full and the air thrust thru the condensor and radiator is Very good.

Like Jaggu I am having a hard time picturing the configuration of the new fans.

Do your new fans' blades have a wide circumferance e.g. almost as wide as the radiator?

The reason I ask is that fans giving "full thrust" may not give full coverage of the radiator surface area if they are too small in circumferance. You may want to take an look at another gypsy to do a seat-of-the-pants comparison since your OEM stuff is gone.

The shroud design is critical, too. It has to keep the air vectored tightly at the radiator and not let much escape to the sides.

Since your water pump weep hole is dry and you do not hear any catatrophic noises eminating from there the chances are good that your water pump is okay. But it is still a possibility. Do not totally discount it.

[Rajachu]

[quote=starter;1842732]
Yes, this is exactly the case with my Gypsy as well.
The temperature needle would be slightly above the 50% mark.
It is good to know that this is only an electrical issue.


Deepak,May be the following is the issue which i read somewhere

Raj.

3. Often when the engine is revved the headlights become brighter and the temperature gauge needle climbs. This is due to a bad earthing connection between the engine block and the body. Cleaning the area where the earthing strip is attached to the body solves the problem.

[kavesh55]

Dear Scooby05- Was it because of the big fogs, fitted on the door ? Just kidding.

I can understand your dilemma. I faced an entirely opposite one. It was when I bought the PP S1, It wasnt heating up.
The car was bought from Starline Motors Tardeo. While taking the delivery inspection the car was switched on to check if everything worked fine. Even after five the temp needle did not move. was wondering why ? My uncle switched on the Ac. The car was now idling with Ac on full blast.Still the needle did not move. We thought it has a conked temp guage. Not a possiblity. Finally it moved after five minutes, the needle moved though slightly.

The Ac was fitted by Starline Motors. 507 Sanden compressor, Popular blower, some japanese aux fan and cooling coil.

The radiator in an S1 was a larger one, slightly skewed to the right side of the car.The Ac system is fitted on the left side. So both the Condensor coil and and radiator have a fair share of grille space.

Guess Starline did a better job than PAL, as PAL, too placed the coil and fan as you have mentioned.

[starter]

Originally Posted by Rajachu

Deepak,May be the following is the issue which i read somewhere

Raj.

3. Often when the engine is revved the headlights become brighter and the temperature gauge needle climbs. This is due to a bad earthing connection between the engine block and the body. Cleaning the area where the earthing strip is attached to the body solves the problem.

Hey Raj,
Thanks a lot for this information.
GB (Ajay) also suggested the same.
I got it checked at Suraksha and they gave back the vehicle saying that there is no earthing issue.
Since it is just a notch above the 50% mark only when the lights are on, i've just left it as it is.
Cheers,
Deepak