Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


View Poll Results: Where should I mount the lights?
Option 1 - Between the headlights 71 47.33%
Option 2 - on the sides 3 2.00%
Option 3 - on the roll bar 10 6.67%
Option 4 - on the windshield 9 6.00%
Option 5 - on the bull bar 38 25.33%
OPtion 6 - retain existing ones & add D shackles in the front 11 7.33%
Option 7 - none. upgrade existing lights 6 4.00%
Option 8 - Other. Please specify 2 1.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th September 2010, 19:20   #61
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,625 Times
Default

Dear Sharath - I found the original word file in which I had typed my comments on headlights. I am pasting them here for your needful, please.

Dear all – I have been scanning the headlights section for quite sometime and everybody has very similar queries. Which bulb / relay to use and how to wire etc. I believe that I have done some work on improving my cars’ headlights. I used to rally and as good headlights were an absolute necessity to go fast at night during the events. Also that my car’s headlights are very important to me so all my cars have the best headlights that I can fit in them. I am sharing my experiences with you. My request is that if you exactly follow everything written here – word by word and line – by – line, then your headlights will be very good. If you deviate, your headlights will not give you what you want from them. Needless to say, this communication is indicative of actual steps to be taken to ensure a delightful experience. This communication covers only normal headlights with bulbs. As far as Xenon is concerned, I will provide details later.

Wires – use only FINOLEX wires of nominal size "65" series or more for all major connections. Use only FINOLEX wires of nominal size "14" series for switch actuating circuits. Nowadays, 84 series wires supercede 65 series wires. These are available and cost around Rs 1200 worth for some 20 odd meters. These are available in 2 shops in Opera House in Mumbai. One of the shops is General Auto Electric and Trading Co Ltd. (owned by Maheshbhai, my old headlight contact for more than 25 years).

Reflectors – cars now have their own equipment as supplied. Stick to the original reflectors. Do not go for aftermarket reflectors. If your car’s reflectors have "dulled" in any way, please install new ones. Look for the brightness in reflectors. Tell the shopkeeper to show you six out of which you choose two. He generally grumbles but complies and you get to pick up the best. Avoid reflectors, which have some sort of "pin-hole" indentations in them as light can get reflected incorrectly.

Round reflectors – the best headlight illumination still comes out of good old-fashioned round reflectors. There are 3 makes to choose from, don’t even think of anything else. Lucas TVS is still the best in terms of focus-ability, beam definition, beam strength, beam uniformity and beam reach but these are becoming increasingly hard to find, so if you get good ones, buy and keep them. Lumax reflectors are cheap, easily available but lacks the beam that a good Lucas TVS gives (I purchased Lumax and threw them out the next day). Hella India gives a decent compromise performance. Do not use reflectors which have the small light bulb holder built into them as it affects the sheer performance in terms of beam pattern and consistency. Also please do not use reflectors which have the typical pock marked design available all across now (OE on new Ambies). Reflectors come equipped to handle either a P43t bulb or a P45t bulb (refer below).

Bulbs – All new cars come equipped with what is known as a "P43t" type of bulb. This essentially is a bulb, which has 3 tangs sticking out radially at the mounting face. An asymmetrical location of the tangs ensures that the bulb fits the reflector at one location only. This ensures that the filaments are correctly located with respect to the focal point in the reflector. Before "P43t" became the accepted norm, the bulbs used to come in a "P45t" configuration. This consists of a round shallow dish, which has an angular locator on it. This matches the reflector. First see what reflector you have and then match the bulbs because P43t and P45t are absolutely not interchangeable. When you purchase bulbs, it is important to hold them from the base and look at the glass envelope. It should be perpendicular to the mounting face. I have seen innumerable "bent" bulbs, which will just not work, as the filaments will not get located at the focal point. See around 10 bulbs to choose 2. Before the P43t and the P45t days, there used to be a "Lucas TVS type" bulb but it is now more or less obsolete. I am using GE make 140/110 bulbs in my FIATS. They are awesome (but very costly too).

Wattage – The rule here is simple – more is better – more is brighter – more is whiter. Remember to purchase from a reliable shop / person only as there are umpteen number of fakes floating around (Maheshbhai of Opera House and his son Hitesh have been supplying to me for so long now, I am not a customer to them any more).

Bulb connectors – now this is a tough one. The best thing to do is not to have anything, just solder the wires on the flat terminals (I have been doing this for all my rallies). Just recently there is a connector in the market made of ceramic, which I have just fitted on my FIAT, and I am monitoring the performance. The wires, which come with these connectors, are nowhere near Finolex quality so if you still want to use the connectors, use only the last one-inch or so. Let the Finolex come all the way upto the bulb.

Earth connection – this is most important. Please DO NOT use the earth connection provided in the car, as it will not be able to cater to the additional performance need. Fabricate earth connectors from the Finolex wires, use round brass connectors at the earth end and solder the wire to the connector rigidly. Use an existing earth connector in the car to ground the joint (usually it would be an M6*1.0 size bolt to the body).

Relays – previously mechanically operated relays were available from a company called PMP Auto (Goregaon based). There were 2 types, the so-called 5 point or the 6 point. Connections are basically simple, there is a positive connection, two actuating points connect to the changeover switch and two points connect to the high beam / low beam of the bulbs. Any self-respecting electrician knows all this. Nowadays I use Bosch electronic relays available at good accessory shop for around Rs 100 a piece. These are made in Germany. Ask for the "Bosch ka headlight relay" and any good shop will give it to you.

Connections and fabrication of the wiring harness – remember that once you have purchased the wires and the bulbs etc, the real work starts. You need to be very clear on how you are going to layout the harness. You will need to fabricate a full harness outside the car by laying out the routing on the car, cutting the wires to correct length and then assembling temporarily by using insulation tapes at joints etc. Remember to lay out an extra length of cable from the main alternator terminal to the starter motor / battery positive terminal so as to provide an additional booster / shunt to the main harness. Once the "loose loom" is ready, take a big bundle of plastic tape "Notre" makes is good and start taping the loom in totality. The skill lies in the pitch of each turn, if done correctly, you will always get a "Wow what a wiring harness" from people who understand. To others, it does not matter but then in the night their headlights also don’t work as required.

A word of caution - please take a copy of this communication, show it to your electrician who understands and has the time, energy, patience and passion to do this kind of work. Whenever I have done it, it has taken me 10 hours non-stop from start to finish. Needless to say that this is an indicative procedure. Minor details may vary from car to car.

The beam setting procedure – in the nights go to a quiet straight road. It must be minimum 500 m long. Park the car in the center of the road and start the headlights in high beam. Stand in front of each headlight when it is on to understands the beam pattern of the other headlight. Set the high beam so that it is parallel to the road at headlight mounting height and that BOTH HIGH BEAMS MEET AT THE CENTRE LINE OF THE CAR. In other words, THE HIGH BEAMS MUST REMAIN PARALLEL TO THE ROAD AND BOTH MUST MEET EXACTLY AT THE CAR CENTRE LINE. Remember that you will have to DRIVE THE CAR FOR A LITTLE DISTANCE EACH TIME. Just standing outside and setting will not give you results. I need to get down and adjust each beam at least 25 times for me to get my correct high beam pattern. It took me about 2 months to finally arrive at my personal best setting on the beam pattern. A minor fog on the road enhances the beam, helping you to identify it better. Use nature to your advantage.

Any change to the Alternator etc? – No, not required if the unit is working and delivering output to specifications. Normally the electricians take short cuts when they overhaul alternators so if you are not sure, just replace the whole assembly with a new one. In the long run, it works out as better value for money. Otherwise if you want to overhaul, please use new diodes, a new relay and a new slip ring pack.

The final result – it has to be a WOW everytime, there is no doubt. Go down any Ghat road in the middle of the night and you will see your high beam dance from a rock face and then into the openness of the clear sky as you take hairpin bends. The feeling is exhilarating. If the convergence point is spot-on @ car centerline (RH beam and LH beam angle is same), you will have better control over your steering wheel inputs. This will give you full confidence to place your car exactly where you want it in the middle of the Ghat in the absolute dead of night. But you have to work hard to achieve it. I have done it for years. So go ahead and finally get good headlights on your cars.

Discipline on the highways at night – Perfect headlights is a must for our highways, but please use them responsibly. I have the self-imposed discipline of dipping my headlights, irrespective of what the opposite driver does. If I have to slow down, I slow down. No compromise. But if I flash my high beam, the guy gets a very passive message of who is on the other side and who means business.

My take on extra driving lights – I have used all sorts of things, but to-date, without any doubt, the best pair of driving lights that I have ever used are a pair of HELLA RALLYE 3000 YELLOW COLOURED DRIVING LIGHTS. Their power, reach, beam convergence and view clarity is just awesome, even in the face of oncoming lights. Obviously, I had a fabricated an additional harness for them as well. Also, please fabricate rigid mountings for such wonderful lights. Do not mount them on aftermarket brackets at all. All it takes is a little ingenuity. Ask me if you want I will guide you. I have used CIBIE concave round lights as well. They are good but it is hard to find a good pair these days.

Best of luck. I will appreciate your comments on this message.

Please accept my best personal regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2010, 20:07   #62
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,520
Thanked: 3,986 Times
Default

DB sir, thanks for that. The focussing part is going to require some patience to do

Hella Rallye 3000 seems to be available in 2 models - a Blue and a Celis. Are you refering to either of these, or something else ?
condor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2010, 21:11   #63
Senior - BHPian
 
jeepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MH24 aka LATUR
Posts: 1,522
Thanked: 953 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

Connections and fabrication of the wiring harness – remember that once you have purchased the wires and the bulbs etc, the real work starts. You need to be very clear on how you are going to layout the harness. You will need to fabricate a full harness outside the car by laying out the routing on the car, cutting the wires to correct length and then assembling temporarily by using insulation tapes at joints etc. Remember to lay out an extra length of cable from the main alternator terminal to the starter motor / battery positive terminal so as to provide an additional booster / shunt to the main harness. Once the "loose loom" is ready, take a big bundle of plastic tape "Notre" makes is good and start taping the loom in totality. The skill lies in the pitch of each turn, if done correctly, you will always get a "Wow what a wiring harness" from people who understand. To others, it does not matter but then in the night their headlights also don’t work as required.
thanks for the information sir.
but not every one will be able to give such attention to detail. so here is a pre-fab wiring harness made by roots India. it costs approx 600 rs. is VFM product .
also it dose not void any warranty of your car (essential for Thar owners).

roots wiring harness
Features:
  • Specially designed for High Wattage Halogen Lamps
  • Heat Resistant Bakelite Bulb Holders
  • Bulb Holder with Phosphor-Bronze terminals
  • Separate Silicone fuse for each Beam
  • Made out of Finolex Automotive Grade Wires
  • Corrugated Sleeve for extra protection of wires
  • Protects Combination Switch from High Current
  • Minimizes Voltage Drop

Last edited by jeepster : 28th September 2010 at 21:14.
jeepster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2010, 21:12   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
jeepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MH24 aka LATUR
Posts: 1,522
Thanked: 953 Times
Default

here is a plug & play wiring harness from hella.

source
josejoseph
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post2101138 (The Maruti 800 Mod Thread)
Quote:
Originally Posted by josejoseph View Post
it was a DIY for me. Total damage is 800 bucks for the relay and 520 bucks for headlight units.

Wiring kit cover



Hella relay

jeepster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2010, 00:15   #65
BHPian
 
M.R.Boruwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 69
Thanked: 9 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

I picked up 6 numbers of it at Jann's marketing services JC road) at 390 per item. We needed more, but they ran out of stock. More expected next week. On the way back we found another similar model from Hilux for just 140 bucks. The datasheet given here: HL- 563 WORK LAMP ASSLY JCB,ECEL,L&T,TEREX
Could you please share some more details about this Place.. Looking forward to picking up some auxiliary lights.
M.R.Boruwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2010, 12:06   #66
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,245
Thanked: 14,005 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.R.Boruwa View Post
Could you please share some more details about this Place.. Looking forward to picking up some auxiliary lights.
Here you go: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2034270 (Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family)
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 08:47   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
jeepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: MH24 aka LATUR
Posts: 1,522
Thanked: 953 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

this is what i bought from Pune yesterday.

Name:  DSC03250 Large.JPG
Views: 21371
Size:  128.4 KB
jeepster is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2011, 08:50   #68
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 487
Thanked: 465 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Hi All, these Neolite looks decent and also attractively prices. any pics for the beam output ? Would these make sense for my Xylo ? maybe with a custom stand instead of buying a whole crash guard to mount such! regards, Pranav
pcpranav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2011, 22:23   #69
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,201
Thanked: 822 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Hi all ,

I was using something on my Jeep long back ,( It was a 'In house' DIY )

its a combination of motorcycle headlight dome & 700 ( regular round, like H4 ) unit mounted inside . it was very effective ,rugged & if used along with headlights gave a very good performance , have a look.

The Unit
Off-Roading Lights-lamp1.jpg

Off-Roading Lights-lamp2.jpg

On Jeep ( with cover )

Name:  lamp3.jpg
Views: 7582
Size:  98.6 KB

Sudarshan
Sudarshan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 19:33   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Lights are very commonly misunderstood. As Tejas said, most ancillary lights in India are christened as Fog Lights which is utter rubbish. Also plonking lights on a vehicle just for looks is useless. I remember i realized the importance of lights when i was driving my Discovery (since sold) a few years ago to Mahableshwar, The last 5-6 kms are really gruelling, twisty and filled with sharp hairpin bends. Y To add to that there was dense fog, so dense that it was almost impossible to see more than 10 feet or so with lights on. The rains had made it so overcast that a black blanket enveloped the sky. At 5:30 in the evening it seemed like almost 8:00 pm. I turned on my Cibies expecting a miracle, to my utter dismay it onoly illuminated the cloud wall in front of me. I got off, and loosened the nuts, turning them to illuminate the left and right shoulders of the Ghat road. This helped me to see the radium wrapped poles, marking the edge on either side of the road. Thus i got away and reached up slowly but safely.

The point f the story is that you may not always need the straight road to be strongly illuminated, it also helps to know whats on the sides. On a twisty road, it could be a disaster of you tried to go straight. Hence i vote for those lamps which have an even spread and which can pierce the fog. GE 1000 watt sealed beams which we used to use as hunting(when it was allowed) spot lights were useful for throwing light in one single direction, piercing everything in one straight beam. No diffuson no spread. Not usefoul for driving in my case unless used as a search light mounted on the driver's side as in the 60's police specials.

My vote goes for the JCB Neolites of Hilux mounted in a set of two, each set containing a pair. One pair marking the front and the other slightly askew, as of to spread the light at least 10 feet from the wheel, enabling clear visibility on the shoulders. Of course im open to discussion and correction but that is what ive learnt from that one incident which would have had me stranded on a steep incline in thick fog.

In the meanwhile i have picked these Chinese Strobe lights from my travels in the US. Entered a NY shop selling accessories and chanced upon these strobes, as used in the Police vehicles. I picked them up and plan on installing them on the 550 behind the grille, in between the slats. Should be powerful enough in a fog or for signal at night. I may change the position of install if i plan to use primarily as a distress signal.

Off-Roading Lights-05082011409.jpg
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2011, 22:27   #71
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Thanks to Samu's post and me seeing these JCB worklights in action on Fazal Bhai"S Jeep in the AKC and Examm, earlier this year, i ventured out and got 6 work lights from Hella. My day at Opera house didnt go waste. I window shopped, first in some of the wheeler dealer shops which also stocked the same lights and the price was almost Rs. 50-60/- higher.

I walked into the Neolite dealership and asked for the lamps. he wanted 425/- for them and not a paise discount. Next i checked into the nearby Hella dealership and inquired. They had all three, Neolite, the cheapest Lumax and the most expensive Hella. Printed price Rs.500/- less 205 discount it came to 400/- So my 6 Hella lights would work out to be 2400/-. Picked them up. Asked a few more people. They all recommended Hella as the best. Looks the best, has a 55W bulb in it and is 12V W.394 (whatever that means)

Hella they said had the best reflector and bulb and even on my asking for a 100W bulb for it, the guy at the counter said i would not need that. "This 55W bulb is great, it is not some chalu maal" the dealer opined. Sensing that he could have easily sold me 6 100W bulbs but chose not to, i sensed i had the right product. I intend to mount four on the front and two at the rear for night time rear visibility.

Attaching a pic of the same.

Name:  hella work lamp.jpg
Views: 9001
Size:  86.8 KB

I think for the price its a steal.
It comes with a gromet and bracket, is encased in a plastic housing (like the other ones), has a hardened lens ans says "Halogen" on the box.

I was told it is a great lamp for spread light and will illuminate the next 15-20 feet very aptly. Great for night otrs!! if these work as good as they look and sound, im getting a few for my CJ as well.

Last edited by V-16 : 21st August 2011 at 22:34.
V-16 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st August 2011, 23:06   #72
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 3
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Thanks to Samu's post and me seeing these JCB worklights in action on Fazal Bhai"S Jeep in the AKC and Examm, earlier this year, i ventured out and got 6 work lights from Hella. My day at Opera house didnt go waste. I window shopped, first in some of the wheeler dealer shops which also stocked the same lights and the price was almost Rs. 50-60/- higher.

I walked into the Neolite dealership and asked for the lamps. he wanted 425/- for them and not a paise discount. Next i checked into the nearby Hella dealership and inquired. They had all three, Neolite, the cheapest Lumax and the most expensive Hella. Printed price Rs.500/- less 205 discount it came to 400/- So my 6 Hella lights would work out to be 2400/-. Picked them up. Asked a few more people. They all recommended Hella as the best. Looks the best, has a 55W bulb in it and is 12V W.394 (whatever that means)

Hella they said had the best reflector and bulb and even on my asking for a 100W bulb for it, the guy at the counter said i would not need that. "This 55W bulb is great, it is not some chalu maal" the dealer opined. Sensing that he could have easily sold me 6 100W bulbs but chose not to, i sensed i had the right product. I intend to mount four on the front and two at the rear for night time rear visibility.

Attaching a pic of the same.

Attachment 597253

I think for the price its a steal.
It comes with a gromet and bracket, is encased in a plastic housing (like the other ones), has a hardened lens ans says "Halogen" on the box.

I was told it is a great lamp for spread light and will illuminate the next 15-20 feet very aptly. Great for night otrs!! if these work as good as they look and sound, im getting a few for my CJ as well.
hi, can u please give the shop address and number. thanks
sdsmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2011, 00:10   #73
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,245
Thanked: 14,005 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Printed price Rs.500/- less 205 discount it came to 400/- So my 6 Hella lights would work out to be 2400/-. Picked them up. Asked a few more people. They all recommended Hella as the best. Looks the best, has a 55W bulb in it and is 12V W.394 (whatever that means)
What is the model number of this light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Hella they said had the best reflector and bulb and even on my asking for a 100W bulb for it, the guy at the counter said i would not need that. "This 55W bulb is great, it is not some chalu maal" the dealer opined. Sensing that he could have easily sold me 6 100W bulbs but chose not to, i sensed i had the right product.
Be glad you didn't buy the 100W. And this is why: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ml#post1801253 (Off-Roading Lights)
Samurai is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2011, 09:29   #74
BHPian
 
Grace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 315
Thanked: 159 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Dear Samu,
My CJ340 has clear glass headlights. Do I change them to ribbed ones to get proper spread of lights? Is it advised,your inputs please.

Andy
Grace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2011, 15:58   #75
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,245
Thanked: 14,005 Times
Default Re: Off-Roading Lights

Yes Grace, that is the purpose of ribbed glass, to increase the spread.
Samurai is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Off-roading papps Street Experiences 15 26th August 2008 16:53
Off-Roading in Delhi JEEPs & Other 4WDs -04 Feb 2007 ex670c Indian Motorsport 7 5th February 2007 13:30
Zen goes off roading ... khaadu75 Street Experiences 17 26th December 2006 17:13
Off Roading with Kini,bikes,M800 & Wagon R kpzen Street Experiences 10 19th February 2006 16:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:22.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks