Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th March 2010, 10:45   #1
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default Gypsy vs Jeep Modification | Ease, reliability, parts availability & common myths...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbanavar View Post
I am kinda leaning towards a used Gypsy or 550. This exchange is definitely helping me think through this. Thanks guys!
Hi Ganesh,

It has to be a MM550XD, after a Petrol CJ3B.

but make sure you get it registered before you buy the vehicle.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Gypsy's cannot me modified (mechanically like M&M JEEPs). Besides on OTRs the JEEPs are
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 15th March 2010, 14:17   #2
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,303
Thanked: 1,665 Times
Default

Who said gypsy cant be modified? Spidey arka

Why i prefer gyspsy is coz its more reliable, parts easy and cheap. Almost any good dealer will have one guy who knows the 4x4. Bloody things run, on and on no matter what.
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2010, 15:06   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default Modifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Who said gypsy cant be modified? Spidey
Hi Jaggu,

The JEEP mods are simpler and the New-Gen M&M mechanical Systems are Much Much more rugged.

1) Option of Diff-ratio (4.27 to 5.89:1)

2) Option of Front & Rear Track (48.5/51/57" & 48.5/51/53")
3) Option of Tyres (31-33") Without SPOA.

4) Option Engines. (MDI2350/MDI3200TC/XD3P/SZ2600 etc)

5) Option of Gearboxes. (T90/KMT90/BA10/NGT520/NGT530)

6) Power Steering Conversions (HARCBT/MRCBT)

7) Eff Eff Aar Aay.

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2010, 19:47   #4
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,287
Thanked: 1,412 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
....
PS - Gypsy's cannot me modified (mechanically like M&M JEEPs). ...
Totally disagree with this statement of yours, Arka. A Gypsy can be modified, for off-roading, as much as a jeep can be, if not better -- IN ANY ASPECT THAT YOU CAN THINK OFF, and in a MUCH more reliable manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Who said gypsy cant be modified....
Jaggu, that could have been the scene some 2 years ago when the awareness & know how was not that much and avenues for importing parts not known. Today, sitting in India, you have access to ANY part you can think of for modifying your Gypsy to the limit. Also, platforms like Team-BHP have helped in spreading the know how and bringing this info together.

Quote:
1) Option of Diff-ratio (4.27 to 5.89:1)

2) Option of Front & Rear Track (48.5/51/57" & 48.5/51/53")

6) Power Steering Conversions (HARCBT/MRCBT)

7) Eff Eff Aar Aay.
EACH one of the above mods can be done for Gypsy & parts are readily available off the shelf and you just need to import them. Am leaving the engine/gearbox out as even for that there are enough options here itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
... The JEEP mods are simpler
If at all, I would say that it would be the other way around but at an overall level, I think that for the similar mod, the effort/complexity is more of less same.

Quote:
the New-Gen M&M mechanical Systems are Much Much more rugged.
Enough has already been said about the legendary reliability of the rugged MM's.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 15th March 2010 at 19:50.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2010, 11:06   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default Reliable/Affordable

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Totally disagree with this statement of yours, Arka. A Gypsy can be modified, for off-roading, as much as a jeep can be, if not better -- IN ANY ASPECT THAT YOU CAN THINK OFF, and in a MUCH more reliable manner.

Jaggu, that could have been the scene some 2 years ago when the awareness & know how was not that much and avenues for importing parts not known. Today, sitting in India, you have access to ANY part you can think of for modifying your Gypsy to the limit. Also, platforms like Team-BHP have helped in spreading the know how and bringing this info together.

EACH one of the above mods can be done for Gypsy & parts are readily available off the shelf and you just need to import them. Am leaving the engine/gearbox out as even for that there are enough options here itself.

If at all, I would say that it would be the other way around but at an overall level, I think that for the similar mod, the effort/complexity is more of less same.

Enough has already been said about the legendary reliability of the rugged MM's.
Hi Shahnawaz,

I agree with you statement regarding the modifications to a Gypsy to get JEEP like Off-Road performance.

Everything is available off-the-shelf, but not in INDIA.

You will have to pretty much import the whole vehicle excluding the Chassis and Body.

What about
1) Lower Differential Ratios.
2) Wider Track.
3) FFRA/OKBJ.

To do the above mods its better to pick up the drive line of M&M JEEP and fit it in a Gypsy.

The imported parts will cost as much as a New Vehicle (Including the shipping and Customs Duty)

Please elaborate on the reliability of the Gypsy. I have seen them to be as quirky(unreliable) as JEEPs.

How can you get reliability on a Gypsy wrt the following mods
i) Articulations - Remove the Anti-Roll Bars vs SPOA
ii) More Torque - Engine Vs Crawler Gears
iii) Lower Ratios - Crawler Gears vs Diff-Ratio
iv) Drive-line Strength - ??????

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2010, 19:27   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,573
Thanked: 559 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

What about
1) Lower Differential Ratios.
2) Wider Track.
3) FFRA/OKBJ.

Please elaborate on the reliability of the Gypsy. I have seen them to be as quirky(unreliable) as JEEPs.

How can you get reliability on a Gypsy wrt the following mods
i) Articulations - Remove the Anti-Roll Bars vs SPOA
ii) More Torque - Engine Vs Crawler Gears
iii) Lower Ratios - Crawler Gears vs Diff-Ratio
iv) Drive-line Strength - ??????

Arka
Hmm interesting discussion going on here, will keep a close look on this thread.

Spike

OT- The wind has finally changed directions now, although the intensity remains the same
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2010, 21:42   #7
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,287
Thanked: 1,412 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
...Everything is available off-the-shelf, but not in INDIA.
I don't think even MM parts are available off the shelf in India. For what I hear, MM folks don't even know which hose to order for which jeep.!! They don't even know how to order correct parts for 5xx series.

In an online connected world, it is very much possible to get whatever part you want, door delivered in a max of a week - 10 days. As long as you get the parts who cares where you get parts from -- from a junkyard in another town in India (for jeeps) or from US online (for Gypsy)..!!!

Quote:

What about
1) Lower Differential Ratios.
2) Wider Track.
3) FFRA/OKBJ.
As I said earlier, all of the above and MUCH MORE, than one can even dream of, can be done -- EASILY, with off the shelf, door delivered parts.

Quote:
The imported parts will cost as much as a New Vehicle (Including the shipping and Customs Duty)
#1: People who want to do mods, find ways of getting stuff easily in cost effective manner

#2: Cost is a relative aspect. What is costly for me could be not so costly for someone else, so let's leave cost out of it.

#3: Is a vehicle moddable or not is a BLACK & WHITE aspect and that's where I disagree with a blanket statement about Gypsy not being moddable mechanically. (I am not at all debating which is a better 4x4, as that is of no interest to me)

Quote:
Please elaborate on the reliability of the Gypsy. I have seen them to be as quirky(unreliable) as JEEPs.
Well, my experiences/observations & even that of many a jeeper that I know say other wise. So let's agree to disagree.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 16th March 2010 at 22:00.
khan_sultan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 10:06   #8
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default INDIAN Context

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
I don't think even MM parts are available off the shelf in India. For what I hear, MM folks don't even know which hose to order for which jeep.!! They don't even know how to order correct parts for 5xx series.

As I said earlier, all of the above and MUCH MORE, than one can even dream of, can be done -- EASILY, with off the shelf, door delivered parts.

#1: People who want to do mods, find ways of getting stuff easily in cost effective manner

#2: Cost is a relative aspect. What is costly for me could be not so costly for someone else, so let's leave cost out of it.

#3: Is a vehicle moddable or not is a BLACK & WHITE aspect and that's where I disagree with a blanket statement about Gypsy not being moddable mechanically. (I am not at all debating which is a better 4x4, as that is of no interest to me)
Hi Shahnawaz,

You are absolutely right, but unfortunately, the OTRs or the rebuilds are not happening on the online world.

Yes it is extremely easy to order after market parts online for Suzuki Vehicles,

It Easier to order Online aftermarket parts for M&M JEEPs to, as the JEEPs have the largest aftermarket.

But sitting in INDIA, from the Manufacturers parts Bin, or basic bolt on mods, or swaps

The Gypsy is virtually UN-MODIFIABLE, to get the desired off-road performance.

The mods are
1) HT-ST
2) Tyre Upgrade
3) A few brave one do engine swaps.
4) The Demi-God like creatures do SPOA, and allied sub mods.

Most of the M&M parts are bought second hand or from the parts vendor.

To give you an idea, how easily one can be modded, just look at the M&M JEEPs most of which have some or the other mod.

1) Tyres 31-33"
2) Differential Ratios
3) FIP
4) Suspension (8/9 or 9/10 Leaf Spring Packs)
5) FFRA

How many Gypsy's have been modded, amongst all the Gypsy owners?

#2) I agree lets leave cost out, but is it practical, if so, many more would have done that. or we expect many more to do that.

#3) That is understood.

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 13:40   #9
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default Winds of Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
The wind has finally changed directions now, although the intensity remains the same
Spike especially for you .
Hope this clarifies

ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 14:27   #10
Sha
BHPian
 
Sha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canberra
Posts: 539
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
How many Gypsy's have been modded, amongst all the Gypsy owners?

Arka
Few gypsy's have been modded like Khan's but stock Gypsy without modds has done all terrains which I have done and seen but Modded jeeps have got stuck.
Only few offroaders knows what gypsy capability and few Kings like Shanawaz have taken to next level what gypsy can be modded.

Good discussion about Gypsy Vs Jeep, Dawarka sir use to tell Gypsy Jeep Bhai Bhai.
Sha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 14:36   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default JEEP vs GYPSY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha View Post
Few gypsy's have been modded like Khan's but stock Gypsy without modds has done all terrains which I have done and seen but Modded jeeps have got stuck.

Only few offroaders knows what gypsy capability and few Kings like Shanawaz have taken to next level what gypsy can be modded.
+100 to that, I saw it first hand in Avalakonda.
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 21:18   #12
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 16,885
Thanked: 4,867 Times
Default

While searching for offroad accessories for GV back in 2007, I was shocked at the number of offroad accessories available for Suzuki Samurai a.k.a Gypsy. Jeep upgrading mostly happens by cannibalizing parts from other types of Jeeps or older Jeeps, using parts which were not originally designed for your Jeep. Meanwhile, Gypsy can get parts specifically designed for the Samurai/Gypsy, keeping offroading as the primary function.

Talking about Spidey, I have done offroading a few times in CJ340 along with the Spidey. It is the only vehicle that has ever given a complex to my CJ340. Spidey can do whatever CJ340 can do and more.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 21:23   #13
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,303
Thanked: 1,665 Times
Default

You want brand new off the shelf parts (don't ask which continent, but what the heck its the era of internet!), look no further its gypsy. Installation most often are simple since its direct fitting. I wouldn't even debate with this.
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2010, 10:15   #14
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 1,306 Times
Default Realistic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
You want brand new off the shelf parts (don't ask which continent, but what the heck its the era of internet!), look no further its gypsy. Installation most often are simple since its direct fitting. I wouldn't even debate with this.
Hi Jaggu,

For the Maruti Gypsy, Please try and give me a solution for.

1) Lower Diff-Ratio
2) Wider Axle/Track (In India & any other Continent)
3) FFRA.

If e-shopping and budget is not a constraint, then we can all claim, Portal Axles, MPFI Chevy Small Blocks, 44" Tyres and the works.

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2010, 12:24   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,732
Thanked: 381 Times
Default The local advantage

My view point-

In Indian context-
  • Gypsy up grade possible On Line, M&M upgrade possible Off Line (read scrap Yard)
  • Gypsy upgrade expensive, M&M upgrade super cheap!!
  • Gypsy choice of engines only 3 (1.3,1.6 Petrol & 1.8 ISZ); M&M choice of engines XD3p, ISZ 1800 (Petrol); Di turbo, 2.6 SZ plus, 2.5 M Eagle and who knows 2.2 M hawk!
  • Gypsy axle upgrade not possible (may be its not required); M&M axle upgrades possible even if it is not required!!
  • M&M chassis upgrade possible from C section to tubular to box section ; What about Gypsy?
  • How can you upgrade a Gypsys gearbox to handle 20+ kgm torque? Do you have local solution or even abroad?
  • How many leaf springs combination's can be used on a stock Gypsy? On NGCS Army 550 i can use Maxx pick up longer front spring with NGCS army shackle for super articulation. The rear i can use Bolero 2wd springs with shackle kit and add or subtract leafs for that handling and ride combination
  • What about diff ratios?
Now if you speak about solid axle coil spring kit from abroad, i only see this as an M&M disadvantage. But budget no problem even this can be experimented.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 18th March 2010 at 12:39.
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maintenance & care for your Jeep / Gypsy's Soft top Tejas@perioimpl 4x4 Technical 11 23rd April 2014 07:18
Of Jeep's, Gypsy, Landy and a L&T Komatsu - OTR/Recee (Off Kanakpura) - 11Jul2010 svsantosh 4x4 Excursions 41 29th July 2010 15:56
RE modification parts inquiry smart2smart Motorbikes 5 12th February 2009 11:08
OEM Parts availability 1100D Technical Stuff 27 27th July 2007 00:37
gypsy king modification rik Modifications & Accessories 0 2nd December 2006 17:52


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:35.

Copyright 2000 - 2014, Team-BHP.com