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Old 11th May 2010, 09:50   #46
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Jaggu I think a short spring is a good idea or every time you stop and go there will be a sharp tug/jolt. The spring will definitely reduce this, basically making the tow process much smoother.
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Old 11th May 2010, 10:33   #47
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With a rigid tow bar tugs will be minimal unlike ropes? Also why complicate a simple design and create failure points
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Old 11th May 2010, 11:39   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Sir, guess you got me wrong I have bold faced that for better understanding
I know what you are saying. I have attached it to the chassis, through a U bracket. Now Jaggu says I have overdone it, you say I have under-done it. We are all guessing, and not doing engineering here.

Now if Suresh Stephan, Spike or Behram think it is bad design, then I am bound to fully believe it because they know Jeep and they are practicing engineers in mechanical/automobile domain.

Now this is how engineers speak...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh Stephen View Post
Dear Spike,
I had an axle set like Santhosh had in the FFRA set up and I also has an LSD in the rear. After an OTR in Munnar I found that my axles were twisted very badly. When I checked the hardness it was around 20 HRC whereas for a properly heat treated shaft, I will expect an minimum of 35HRC( depending on the material and heat treatment). I have then got a pair of axles manufactured using EN36 steel and got a proper hardening and tempering done which gave I think about 40 HRC. It was a pain to establish the manufacturing process and i have lost at least some four pairs before establishing the right process. especially which quenching, the shafts used to distort. I have introduced straightening after then with the reference of the splines idone a grinding operation which has removed all the distorsion and also improved the sealing on the axle. Now the axles are working fine But the drive flange spline was eaten away. I have now done an argon arc welding on the axles and drive flange.
Santhosh,
You may not require the thrust spacer. What is required is to ensure that the splines in the inside and outside is properly meshed. Ask Raju to locate axle in the correct distance , cut the extra bolt length and clamp it right other wise you may have oil leaks.
Suresh
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hello Sir,

Thank you for your reply, although I know hardening and heat treatment processes for axle and its components, i wanted to know which hardening was being referred to here by Arka and Santosh, and hence the query. I would like to add on:-

1. As you have used EN36 steel what kind of heat treatment was done (single quench/double quench followed by tempering?)to obtain a particular carburised depth.

2. I will tell you the procedure with EN8D optional SAE1541.
Metallurgical process- Hot forging followed by Normalising to core hardness of 197 BHN then shot blasting. Induction hardening and tempering is done to achieve the following:-
a) Surface hardness 54-60 HRc
b) Effective case depth at 40 HRc 4.3 to 5.6mm
c) Total case depth at 20 HRc 7.2 to 8.5mm
Core hardness of 197 BHN is checked at the end of the total case depth and surface hardness is maintained +-1 HRc up to minimum depth of 3mm from surface.

Spike

P.S. BTW what kind of spline does it incorporate?

Last edited by Samurai : 11th May 2010 at 11:45.
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Old 11th May 2010, 11:45   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
We are all guessing, and not doing engineering here.
One of the reasons why staying stock always makes sense. Just install it as they would the standard D shackle. Can't remember if its riveted or bolted.
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Old 11th May 2010, 11:49   #50
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Unfortunately, there are no standard D-shackle mounted on Jeeps. What comes as standard, even on Army Jeeps is a metal loop, through which ropes can pass to tie the Jeeps on the truck. It can't be used for towing.
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Old 11th May 2010, 11:53   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Unfortunately, there are no standard D-shackle mounted on Jeeps. What comes as standard, even on Army Jeeps is a metal loop, through which ropes can pass to tie the Jeeps on the truck. It can't be used for towing.
Most tow hooks are welded loops on the frame. There's no rocket science to it Sharat
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Old 11th May 2010, 11:56   #52
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Dear Sharath - drilling of chassis in field for whatever aplication is not recommended as a general recommendation (before I start getting hammered again). There will be a lot of thrust on the front bumper when you use the towing device that you have manufactured as the towing point is not concentric with the long member. I would have provided a towing hook on the top of the long member to prevent expected damage on the bumper due to high thrust on long members (see the CL340 classic application, this was a regulatory requirement for Europe in 1997). I know that you have to mount the winch there but still it could be attempted and executed.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:07   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Most tow hooks are welded loops on the frame. There's no rocket science to it Sharat
The loops you see here on Jaggu's Jeep is not designed for towing.

Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.-img_0907.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sharath - drilling of chassis in field for whatever aplication is not recommended as a general recommendation (before I start getting hammered again). There will be a lot of thrust on the front bumper when you use the towing device that you have manufactured as the towing point is not concentric with the long member. I would have provided a towing hook on the top of the long member to prevent expected damage on the bumper due to high thrust on long members (see the CL340 classic application, this was a regulatory requirement for Europe in 1997). I know that you have to mount the winch there but still it could be attempted and executed.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thanks Behram, I know it is not the best install. But I had to go with mechanic's recommendation here. Can you suggest a better install with diagrams here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-t...ml#post1876138

I can try to re-fabricate the current install based on that.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:07   #54
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Its somewhere there on my Classic. On the right hand side beam. Its a single hook though. I remember someone else who tried towing a Classic using its crash guard. Instead of 90 degrees the crashguard was a at 60 Deg angle even before the Jeep moved an inch. It could have surely ripped the bumper and guard out.

Towing a broken down 4x4-p5083990.jpg

EDIT: Oh the marking took sometime. Seems the experts concour. Why not have a D-Shackle instead of the hook?

Last edited by Spitfire : 11th May 2010 at 12:10.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:11   #55
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Sharat the following is the tow hook for a Jeep. If you want something that can be closed install a d shackle type hook at the same point on the frame, already will have mounting holes. The mounting points are where Spitfire mentioned

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Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 12:13.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:12   #56
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I moved the posts here since we were going seriously OT in Thar thread.

Spitfire, I can't put it there because my winch will be mounted there, Behram remembered it.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:16   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I moved the posts here since we were going seriously OT in Thar thread.

Spitfire, I can't put it there because my winch will be mounted there, Behram remembered it.
Well actually you can leave the points free and fabricate a base plate that fits within the frame members. That way you have your original tow points intact and still have the base plate for your winch. Most Jeepers here install a base plate so it is flush with the top of the frame and sits snug in between both side frames and behind the bumper. It seems to work just fine

ps: notice the twin hooks on Jaggu's Jeep just behind the red loops

Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 12:25.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:31   #58
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OK. Now that we all have our tow bar designs, etc sorted out. Let's discuss flat towing that is being intended to be done.

If you are going to tow your Jeep at more than 60-70kmph (that's what a jeep is designed for), you are going to have tremendous heat build up in your rear difs.

Ideal would be:

- use a flat bed to tow your jeep
- remove the drive shafts (impractical)
- use FWHs on rear wheels as well.

See these pages for some great info:

Towing a Jeep on The CJ3B Page

Can I tow my CJ8 [Archive] - Jeep Scrambler Forums & Discussions

EDIT:

What if you incorporate steering dampers in the A frame design. Won't that minimize the tugs?

Also, my dampened single tow bar will arrive from UK in the first week of June. So i will be able to give good reviews and pics then.

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 11th May 2010 at 12:33. Reason: see edit
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:34   #59
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I do have a base plate designed by Suresh Stephan for mounting the winch. Now I see the hooks on Jaggu's Jeep, proper Captain Hook kinda hooks. But not compatible with my base plate.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:39   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I do have a base plate designed by Suresh Stephan for mounting the winch. Now I see the hooks on Jaggu's Jeep, proper Captain Hook kinda hooks. But not compatible with my base plate.
Your chassis may have those tow hook points. Are you sure your car doesn't have them? Does the base plate fit in between the frames or on top of it?
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