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Old 11th May 2010, 12:40   #61
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Now I see the hooks on Jaggu's Jeep, proper Captain Hook kinda hooks.
These are known as Rhino hooks. Available at CST Kurla Road here. Let me know if you want them.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:42   #62
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Yeah and ensure they are bolted down with 2 solid bolts, mine was fitted as an ornament and held in place by one puny bolt, which was ripped out (thankfully no injuring people or vehicle) while being towed by Nishanth's jeep!

EDIT: Moved post in here coz the previous discussion is throwing in a new angle to mounting for tow hooks also!

EDIT 2

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
OK. Now that we all have our tow bar designs, etc sorted out. Let's discuss flat towing that is being intended to be done.

If you are going to tow your Jeep at more than 60-70kmph (that's what a jeep is designed for), you are going to have tremendous heat build up in your rear difs.
We are already aware of this, max tow speed will be 50-60 kmph, more than that and jeep tranny might not take it. Let me go through the links, thankd Tejas.

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Your chassis may have those tow hook points. Are you sure your car doesn't have them? Does the base plate fit in between the frames or on top of it?
Even in the tow bar design posted earlier, the clamps are attached on the front face of the bumper. Experts please comment if this is not healthy?!

Last edited by Jaggu : 11th May 2010 at 12:49.
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Old 11th May 2010, 14:05   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Even in the tow bar design posted earlier, the clamps are attached on the front face of the bumper. Experts please comment if this is not healthy?!
Not sure what you mean Jaggu. Notice the picture posted by Spitfire showing the holes in the main frame member. That's where the hooks go, no the bumper. The tow hook should be directly on the frame member not the bumper. I think even BD mentioned the same thing.
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Old 11th May 2010, 14:24   #64
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Not sure what you mean Jaggu. Notice the picture posted by Spitfire showing the holes in the main frame member. That's where the hooks go, no the bumper. The tow hook should be directly on the frame member not the bumper. I think even BD mentioned the same thing.
We need to differentiate between towing and extracting (not dental ).

In this thread we are discussing flat towing and i think the clamps/hooks/shackles on the bumper will suffice. For recovery from slush, etc, we need them mounted on the long member of the chassis.

Even the small loops given in stock gypsies are good enough to tow it on tarmac.
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Old 11th May 2010, 14:46   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Not sure what you mean Jaggu. Notice the picture posted by Spitfire showing the holes in the main frame member. That's where the hooks go, no the bumper. The tow hook should be directly on the frame member not the bumper. I think even BD mentioned the same thing.
I meant for flat towing, the tow bar designs from other forums which i have posted earlier. The clamps are attached to the front and not on the chassis member. Is that a bad idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
We need to differentiate between towing and extracting (not dental ).

In this thread we are discussing flat towing and i think the clamps/hooks/shackles on the bumper will suffice. For recovery from slush, etc, we need them mounted on the long member of the chassis.

Even the small loops given in stock gypsies are good enough to tow it on tarmac.
Yes towing and not recovery.

But would like to know if D shackle clamps fitted to bumper is good or bad from recovery angle? Have to admit i have not really looked at the bumper attachment to frame closely yet since i was planning to fix the Rhino hooks properly for recovery.
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Old 11th May 2010, 14:58   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
i was planning to fix the Rhino hooks properly for recovery.
You must be aware that my Classic has been the official recovery vehicle for most of the bombay OTRs. The rhino hook has performed flawlessly. I suggest go ahead with it.
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:00   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
OK. Now that we all have our tow bar designs, etc sorted out. Let's discuss flat towing that is being intended to be done.

If you are going to tow your Jeep at more than 60-70kmph (that's what a jeep is designed for), you are going to have tremendous heat build up in your rear difs.

Ideal would be:

- use a flat bed to tow your jeep
- remove the drive shafts (impractical)
- use FWHs on rear wheels as well.

See these pages for some great info:

Towing a Jeep on The CJ3B Page

Can I tow my CJ8 [Archive] - Jeep Scrambler Forums & Discussions

EDIT:

What if you incorporate steering dampers in the A frame design. Won't that minimize the tugs?

Also, my dampened single tow bar will arrive from UK in the first week of June. So i will be able to give good reviews and pics then.
- use a flat bed to tow your jeep
Impractical due to cost and parking considerations.

- remove the drive shafts (impractical)
You got it right.

- use FWHs on rear wheels as well.
They are fitted only for the front wheels. I dont know why - google's not throwing up anything. We need the local google masters to shed light on this.

___________________

First, we have to understand why TUGS exist. Tugs exist because the towing system gets slack. In a rigid A frame tow bar, it is rigid - it is not slack. A rigid system will not contribute to tugs.

Why is there a spring on a rigid A frame tow bar?
Because in case you brake suddenly at a high speed, the towed vehicle (which obviously is free wheeling behind you) pushes all its momentum onto the A frame bar which then gets transferred onto your vehicle. The spring diffuses this momentum/energy. Its more like a shock absorber.

Why are tow bars collapsible?
They are collapsible because when you align the tower and the towee, many a times its difficult to get this alignment right. You would have experienced this with a short tow rope. Thus its collapsible so you can extend/shorten the tow bar - clamp on - and this will then re-extend itself when you drive off.

Lastly, your differentials will heat excessively up only if the speed at which you travel is a LOT more than the drivetrain is rated for. If kept within JEEP speeds, the DIFF will heat up like it would if you drive it.

It is impossible to tow a driver or driverless vehicle in India at speeds exceeding 70 KMPH. Our jeeps do about 80 on a very good day. So this point is mute.

Just engage neutral on the transfer case and neutral on the gearbox, make sure your steering box has no issues and keep driving.

The ONLY thing I am worried about is if the gear lever slips into gear whilst towing. That can be catastrophic.
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:01   #68
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Regardless of whether we are towing on tarmac or recovering a stuck vehicle we must use the tow hooks that install on the main frame member only. Even on a modern car the tow eyelet screws into the main member behind the bumper. Further even on tarmac towing I've seen people damage their cars badly attempting to secure the car at wrong points.

Like Sharat mentioned the small rings on the bumper were possibly used by army personnel to tether the cars to trucks when on the move. I doubt if they were ever meant for any other purpose.

I can only think of a D shackle type hook in place of the horn if you want the rope/tow rod to remain secure. Further all these D shackles etc are rated for a load, ie 1 ton, 2 tons etc. Make sure you get stuff that is rated for the max possible load you will encounter. Crane supplies stores will have decent stuff with the load rating mentioned on the shackles.

Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 15:06.
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:04   #69
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I know what you are saying. I have attached it to the chassis, through a U bracket. Now Jaggu says I have overdone it, you say I have under-done it. We are all guessing, and not doing engineering here.

Now if Suresh Stephan, Spike or Behram think it is bad design, then I am bound to fully believe it because they know Jeep and they are practicing engineers in mechanical/automobile domain.

Now this is how engineers speak...
Hi Sharath,

Did you fit the Bracketing for the Towing Shackles before mounting the winch?

Regards,

Arka
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:26   #70
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sharath - drilling of chassis in field for whatever application is not recommended as a general recommendation (before I start getting hammered again). There will be a lot of thrust on the front bumper when you use the towing device that you have manufactured as the towing point is not concentric with the long member. I would have provided a towing hook on the top of the long member to prevent expected damage on the bumper due to high thrust on long members (see the CL340 classic application, this was a regulatory requirement for Europe in 1997). I know that you have to mount the winch there but still it could be attempted and executed.
Hello Sir,

I agree with you on the drilling the Chassis. As far as possible, I have tried to use the holes made by the manufacturer, and I have Drilled to Holes on top of the long member, after adding a piece on either side (Front Leaf Shackle Mount)

Please comment on the below setup.

It is a "Non-Scientifically Reasoned" Winch Plate to Strengthen the Chassis.

I helps me because of the MRCBT Steering needs lateral stabilization and additional support for the Shaktiman Tow Rings.

Also the winch is bolted through winch plate to the front Bumper.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...upgrade-3.html (My MM540XD upgrade)

If you can please post pics of the Winch Mount on the M&M Legend and any some of a Non-NGCS Vehicle.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Other than Hammering; Drilling, Grinding, Shearing, Bolting, Riveting, etc, etc, quite a few processes are still left.
Attached Thumbnails
Towing a broken down 4x4-pict0006.jpg  

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Old 11th May 2010, 15:26   #71
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Venki thanks for going through the links and replying, saved me the time

For recovery hooks am kinda clear now that the frame might be the better spot. But then when it comes to tow bars its gonna be a problem. The bar sitting on top and member below might come in the way of the bar attaching properly to the hook of the tow vehicle.

Maybe this is the reason why the bars are attached to the front of the bumper for tow bars?

EDIT: This is what i was talking about and really tempted to pick it up, what say?

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Adju.../dp/B0035H939Y

Last edited by Jaggu : 11th May 2010 at 15:34.
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:36   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
For recovery hooks am kinda clear now that the frame might be the better spot. But then when it comes to tow bars its gonna be a problem. The bar sitting on top and member below might come in the way of the bar attaching properly to the hook of the tow vehicle.
You can attach an eyelet like what Sharat has fabricated to the underside of the frame at the same point along the frame member where the horn comes on top. To this eyelet you can attach a D shackle and the tow bar. What say?

Infact what you can do is to attach two such eyelets on either side of the frame, fabricate a L shaped A where the apex of the A is a ring that fits onto the pintle hook of the towing Jeep. When not in use in an OTR you simply swing the A frame up and lock it there and its out of the way.,

You will find this as the prefered permanent tow bar on most offroad machines abroad

Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 15:40.
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:43   #73
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Ideal of a eyelet and then using D shackle definitely sounds better.

But I feel the tow bars will require free vertical travel (upwards and downwards), this is the concern for attaching the same, with bumper or any other part in front esp in the vertical plane. I had gone through many pages and images for the tow bar (flat tow) and all of them followed the same design.

Check these designs http://www.blueox.us/Towbars/towbars.htm
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:46   #74
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Something like this Jaggu. Should be very robust for any amount of highway or offroad towing. Since they hinge below the frame a certain amount of vertical swing is possible

Name:  tow.jpg
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Once you are done with the OTR trip it can hang on a wall in the garage !

edit: those bars are fab Jaggu at the link, especially the extendable ones.

Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 15:52.
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Old 11th May 2010, 15:52   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Venki thanks for going through the links and replying, saved me the time

For recovery hooks am kinda clear now that the frame might be the better spot. But then when it comes to tow bars its gonna be a problem. The bar sitting on top and member below might come in the way of the bar attaching properly to the hook of the tow vehicle.

Maybe this is the reason why the bars are attached to the front of the bumper for tow bars?

EDIT: This is what i was talking about and really tempted to pick it up, what say?

Amazon.com: Universal Tow Bar Adjustable Mount Tow Bar Tow Kit with Magnetic Tow Lights: Automotive
Read those links and more sometime last week.

No reviews yet on this product, how much on landing at your door-step? I would be interested in this myself too - maybe we could order together. Price @ US is mouth watering. 35 pounds is very light too.
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