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Old 24th April 2010, 23:28   #31
DKG
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Torque-ative this really is the achilles heel of the Jeep. Barring this quirk its a trouble free car I feel.

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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Deepak,
Very shortly I will be hounding you for these particular issues and there's no escape as we live a few kilometers away from eachother.
Regards,
24x7 at your service sir !
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Old 25th April 2010, 20:56   #32
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
S
Reason for asking is that I cannot recall a 140 MJ and 25 venturi combination.

Regards
Sutripta
The one i got from bombay has 140 Main jets and 25 venturi combination, the one which came with the jeep had 130 main jets though.

Last edited by Jaggu : 25th April 2010 at 21:15.
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Old 25th April 2010, 23:47   #33
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
The one i got from bombay has 140 Main jets and 25 venturi combination, the one which came with the jeep had 130 main jets though.
"One" = Vehicle, carburettor, or repair kit?
What was the position of the venturi? Actually could you list out all the jets etc. Have seen quite a few Jeeps with 25 mm venturis (none new) and always thought those were Ambassador carbs doing duty in a Jeep! IIRC, in a Ambassador, the venturi was flush with the throttle body, not so in the Jeep. Also Jeeps had internally vented float covers. In my eyes, these were the two giveaways. Now it looks as if it might have been an official setup!

The first thing a street mech does is reduce the size of the MJ. So what the vehicle was running is not a good indicator.

I think a thread on the Solex and all its setups are very much required.

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Sutripta
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Old 26th April 2010, 09:37   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I cannot recall a 140 MJ and 25 venturi combination.
The new carb I got for my CJ3B came with the 140. I don't know about the venturi, can we tell from any numbers on the carb?
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:09   #35
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
"One" = Vehicle, carburettor, or repair kit?
I meant carb's. And please have a look at this (Got Jeep! CJ3B Hurricane.) and let me know if it helps in clearing your doubts. Only one thing i found missing in this, the vacuum advance for the distributor is blocked. So i need to find someone who can carefully open the brass thingie and attach the pipe from the old carb.
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Old 26th April 2010, 20:35   #36
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^^^^^
Took a look at the pictures. You have the real McCoy. Including the proper model (M34PBIC). The converted ones are M32PBIC.

However, I know of only two settings for the F134:
a) 140 MJ, 28 Venturi, 160 Air correction,
b) 127.5 MJ, 26 Venturi, 190 Air correction.
The pump jet was also different, though I've forgotten what. Other settings were the same. And I don't remember them. The venturi position was the highest of the three possible. Which also meant that the pump injector was different from the other carbs.

It would be beneficial to have other official settings. Also wonder what the official power output is with the 25 venturi.

One consistent problem faced was flooding during steep ascents. Which is why wanted to know method for setting the float level. I even made my jury rigged sight glass! To no avail. Also for this reason I would be a bit wary of running two pumps in series. There is a possibility of flooding.

For vacuum advance, are you talking of the plug on the adapter? Or something else?

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Sutripta
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Old 26th April 2010, 23:29   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
The new carb I got for my CJ3B came with the 140. I don't know about the venturi, can we tell from any numbers on the carb?
Sorry, forgot to reply to your post.

The venturi size is the number diecast on the top. Else you can also measure it. The bore where it is narrowest, in mm.

The carb number should be M34PBIC, which is strange because the body is that of the M32PBIC, which has a 32 mm throttle.

Regards
Sutripta

P.S. I last handled a F134 with a Solex maybe 10 - 15 years back. So E&OE!
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:10   #38
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
For vacuum advance, are you talking of the plug on the adapter? Or something else?
Vacuum tapping is from the carb itself, i have it in my old carb. Will post pictures to make things clear. In the new carb the hole is there, but inside a brass stopper is in place. Need to figure out a way to tap this out, then the brass tube from old carb can be connected to make it work.

Is there any easy way, like from the base adapter?
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Old 28th April 2010, 20:26   #39
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Gentlemen with hurricane engines, I have been reading again and again that the mechanical fuel pump is heating up and packing.

There may be numerous reasons for that, my common sense has guided me to one which is the most probable culprit.

As it is, the Hurricane has a tendency to heat I hear. Now as the temperature reaches higher levels the entire engine is hot which means the engine block too, on which is fitted the fuel pump. The heat transmitting from the block to the fuel pump results in the rubber diaphragm in the fuel pump going soft and limp which is unable to perform the desired mechanical pumping it is meant to, especially in summer months.

Why is the heat transferred from the block to the fuel pump?

Heat is easily transferred from Metal to metal and both (engine block and fuel pump) bodies are metal. There should be a good insulation to stop this heat transfer, one that can last.

The reason there is a packing in between them. Now how many of you have this packing in picture on your fuel pump which is made of cork and has a asbestos sheet on the engine face end.

If the cork has hardened through the years it will be ineffective, or if the asbestos sheet has burnt out it will also burn out the cork sheet and harden it. Which means the (old) cork packing is not doing its job even if it there.

Remedy: Replace it with a new one.

Makes any sense?

Sir Behram, Arka, DKG and others may be having a laugh at my limited technical experience, but I am learning.

Regards,


These are the two faces of the fuel pump packing.
CJ3B Fuel Delivery and over heating.-img_6381.jpg

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 28th April 2010 at 20:31.
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Old 29th April 2010, 12:22   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Heat is easily transferred from Metal to metal and both (engine block and fuel pump) bodies are metal. There should be a good insulation to stop this heat transfer, one that can last
Fazal you are absolutely right about the problem. Hot air from the fan blowing onto the fuel pump body, the heat radiation from the manifold, plus the heat from the block all add up to a triple whammy for the poor fuel pump.

I haven't applied my mind to this issue but I am pretty sure with some aid in insulating shields, appropriate packing or some device that cools it should improve the ability of the pump to last summer heat. I've also thought of a separate air ram (a duct from under the radiator to the fuel pump) that blows cooler air direct onto the pump as opposed to getting a contant hot blast from the radiator fan

Last edited by DKG : 29th April 2010 at 12:23.
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Old 29th April 2010, 12:35   #41
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Dear Fazal - I am also still learning and I will continue to learn all the time. Replacing the old packing with a new one will not make any difference in the fuel temperature inside the fuel pump. However, a good packing is required at this location to prevent oil leakage. If at all,there are "heat sink" washers available which can be used.

For your information, I am giving fuel temperature readings recorded during hot weather test conducted on a representative petrol engined car, using the test procedure exactly as defined by NISSAN Japan.

Month of test = May
Fuel temperature inside the fuel tank = 38 degrees C
Fuel temperature inside the fuel pump inlet = 58 degrees C
Fuel temperature inside the carburetor float chamber without fuel return line = 75 degrees C
Water temperature at radiator inlet = 117 degrees C
Water temperature at the radiator outlet = 110 degrees C
Air temperature inside the engine compartment = 107 degrees C (unbelieveable but true)
Air temperature inside the air cleaner throat = 110 degrees C
Ambient temperature in the shade = 44 degrees C

In this set of conditions, the car stalled. Then I worked on it with fuel return line which you all know. After the final solution was implemented, the car has never stalled.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 29th April 2010 at 12:48. Reason: add info
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Old 29th April 2010, 13:07   #42
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Default 118NE Plastic Fan

Hello DB Sir,

I faced all these problems in 2005 May, when we guys started the group OTRs.

After Checking
i) Ignition Timing
ii) Radiator/Hoses
iii) Water Pump
iv) Brakes
v) Engine Oil & Transmission Oil Levels.

One of the Mechanics suggest I fit a Fiat 118NE Plastic Fan, it was a straight fit and solved all my heating problems.

I tried to use another Fiat 118NE fan but it did not fit straight.

Ca you please suggest alternate mechanical (plastic) fans for the CJ3B.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Another trick is to raise the Engine Idle Speed to 800-900rpm, for better oil circulation, and higher fan speed, works in OTRs and Stop & Go Traffic.
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Old 29th April 2010, 16:11   #43
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Dear Arka - the 118NE non AC car originally came with a 4 bladed white coloured plastic fan from Japan. It had wonderful flow characteristics (I had the mass flow data with me). During indigenization, we could never achieve the same result. As far as 118NE AC cars are concerned, we had developed and fitted a 7 bladed fan but I was not happy with its performance characteristics / noise signature. It will be very difficult to get the original NISSAN fan now.

As an alternate, I would prefer to go with a motor driven fan having adequate mass flow. The suitability will have to be calculated using frontal area, vehicle speed, highway / off highway use, trailer towing characteristics etc. It is a small project in itself.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 29th April 2010 at 16:14. Reason: add info
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Old 29th April 2010, 21:02   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
I've also thought of a separate air ram (a duct from under the radiator to the fuel pump) that blows cooler air direct onto the pump as opposed to getting a contant hot blast from the radiator fan
Deepak,
In theory the air ram is fine but it will require a wide inlet compared to the outlet atleast 10:1 for the blast of air to get concentrated to one point at the fuel pump, and then again the Jeep will need to travel at a fairly high speed for it to work, in the stop and go traffic it will not.

Instead as Sir Behram suggested, a heat sink washer or non-conductive material spacer in between the block and the pump, something that does not add to 58 degrees C in the fuel pump and hot radiator air think it will work?

Will the 58c come down with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
For your information, I am giving fuel temperature readings recorded during hot weather test conducted on a representative petrol engined car, using the test procedure exactly as defined by NISSAN Japan.

In this set of conditions, the car stalled. Then I worked on it with fuel return line which you all know. After the final solution was implemented, the car has never stalled.

Sir Behram,

Most valuable data.
The fuel return line is the answer then.
Still, do you feel the heat sink or a non- conducting spacer in between the fuel pump and block will bring down the temperature in the fuel pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
One of the Mechanics suggest I fit a Fiat 118NE Plastic Fan, it was a straight fit and solved all my heating problems.

PS - Another trick is to raise the Engine Idle Speed to 800-900rpm, for better oil circulation, and higher fan speed, works in OTRs and Stop & Go Traffic.
Arka,
What I have heard is that the original 4 blade metal fan is more effective with its each broad blade span.

Will the raising of the idling speed also not heat the engine more at slower speeds when there is less air intake for air cooling, in spite of the faster oil circulation?

Regards,
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Old 30th April 2010, 00:23   #45
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Timing is another key factor, earlier my jeep used to touch 80-85 and now (i strongly suspect retarded timing), its darn difficult to push it beyond 80 in the same driving conditions inspite of hotter weather.
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