Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th April 2010, 11:13   #1
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Tejas@perioimpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,947
Thanked: 4,766 Times
Default Making a Jeep's Steering more predictable

Every Jeep owner knows how unpredictable the steering is. You need to keep giving small corrective inputs (and at times large) all the time to make her go straight.

At times the steering is straight and the jeep goes straight. After a few kms the jeep goes straight when the steering is at a 30 degree angle.

I've been facing this problem all the time. I've done everything to rectify it (nearly everything). Check steering linkages and oiled it. Replaced wheel bearings, checked tie rods & aligned the wheels.

Jeep steering also seems to have a lot of play all the time.

Gypsies do not face this issue at all.

So, what can be done to make a Jeep's steering more predictable?

Does adding a Power steering make it more predictable or does the problem worsen?

Pour your thoughts and inputs here.
Tejas@perioimpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 12:15   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default Predictable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Every Jeep owner knows how unpredictable the steering is. You need to keep giving small corrective inputs (and at times large) all the time to make her go straight.

At times the steering is straight and the jeep goes straight. After a few kms the jeep goes straight when the steering is at a 30 degree angle.

I've been facing this problem all the time. I've done everything to rectify it (nearly everything). Check steering linkages and oiled it. Replaced wheel bearings, checked tie rods & aligned the wheels.

Jeep steering also seems to have a lot of play all the time.

Gypsies do not face this issue at all.

So, what can be done to make a Jeep's steering more predictable?

Does adding a Power steering make it more predictable or does the problem worsen?

Pour your thoughts and inputs here.
Hi Tejas,

MRCBT (Manual Steering from M&M Pickup) + 51" OKBJ (Mahindra Major)

The Older setup has 7 Ball Joints, the newer one has 4 Ball Joints.

the rest -- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...d-upgrade.html (My MM540XD upgrade)

Regards,

Arka

PS - Now you want the NGCS MM550XD steering Setup
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 12:19   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Tejas@perioimpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,947
Thanked: 4,766 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Tejas,

MRCBT (Manual Steering from M&M Pickup) + 51" OKBJ (Mahindra Major)

The Older setup has 7 Ball Joints, the newer one has 4 Ball Joints.

PS - Now you want the NGCS MM550XD steering Setup
Lol.

Can the MRCBT go in with the Classic set up or do i need to change to 51"OKBJ.

BTW, didn't the classic come with 51"?

What cost are we looking at for the MRCBT and the 51"?
Tejas@perioimpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 13:04   #4
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,571 Times
Default

Dear Tejas - in your case, I remember that the steering box was loose on the chassis. I also showed you the holding heel pin which was also loose. Also, there is a worm to sector adjuster which you may set to adjust free play.

Please do not jump to any conclusion on aggregate swap. You have to do everything within the realm of well proven and sound engineering principles only. Please remember that nothing else will work. Anybody can say anything. NGCS is a well proven platform but it is different from non NGCS. The parts are mutually non-compatible. For example, caster and king pin inclination of an NGCS axle is different by design from a normal axle, because the chassis / suspension are set up differently.

Your CL340 classic is the best vehicle you can have to go offroad. Please understand the limit of its capability and within that circle of influence, please enjoy your OTRs.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 13:52   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Tejas@perioimpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,947
Thanked: 4,766 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Tejas - in your case, I remember that the steering box was loose on the chassis. I also showed you the holding heel pin which was also loose. Also, there is a worm to sector adjuster which you may set to adjust free play.

Please do not jump to any conclusion on aggregate swap. You have to do everything within the realm of well proven and sound engineering principles only. Please remember that nothing else will work. Anybody can say anything. NGCS is a well proven platform but it is different from non NGCS. The parts are mutually non-compatible. For example, caster and king pin inclination of an NGCS axle is different by design from a normal axle, because the chassis / suspension are set up differently.

Your CL340 classic is the best vehicle you can have to go offroad. Please understand the limit of its capability and within that circle of influence, please enjoy your OTRs.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Behramji,

After getting the wheel bearing changed and the box tightened, there is definitely a world of difference. I was just wondering if there is a way to make it more better.
Tejas@perioimpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 15:25   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
So, what can be done to make a Jeep's steering more predictable?
What? You want to lose the only theft protection a Jeep has?

The steering vagueness has completely stopped bothering me. I just check the steering box regularly to ensure it hasn't become loose.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 15:32   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default Steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Lol.

Can the MRCBT go in with the Classic set up or do i need to change to 51"OKBJ.

BTW, didn't the classic come with 51"?

What cost are we looking at for the MRCBT and the 51"?
Hi Tejas,

For best results
1) MRCBT (9k Brand New)
2) 51" OKBJ (20K Second Hand)
3) RTC Steering Damper

Regards,

Arka

PS - The attachment is a Chart of M&M Vehicle (Chassis/Yoke/Front & Rear Track/Camber/Caster/KPI/Toe-In/Max Wheel Angle etc
Attached Files
File Type: xls WHEELALIGNMENT-QLD001-REV02.xls (51.5 KB, 327 views)
ex670c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2010, 23:24   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Desmosedici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,381
Thanked: 405 Times
Default

i also have a similar issue with the gypsy, it doesnt stray to a very great extent but the play is too much and even on straight roads i sometimes need to keep moving the steering like how the heroes used to drive in old movies (keep the steering moving left and right slightly)

Can this be adjusted?
Desmosedici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2010, 08:38   #9
BHPian
 
gsferrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 842
Thanked: 131 Times
Default

Same vagueness in my Gypsy as well (new).

I don't mind it because it helps on OTRs where the steering spins wildly but it still manageable as long as you keep your thumbs out of the way and don't fight it too much. I expect the spinning and the violence of the spins will be much stronger if the steering was more precise.

It isn't too annoying on the highway at speeds.

Tejas - let me drive your jeep to see if there is a huge difference from the Gypsy. I honestly thought the Gypsy was as bad as it could get.
gsferrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2010, 11:55   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
Kandisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Noida
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
....I honestly thought the Gypsy was as bad as it could get.
Bit surprising to know that even a new gypsy has a vague steering! From my limited experience i thought that gypsy steering is much more direct and accurate than a stock jeep steering set up.
Kandisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2010, 15:37   #11
BHPian
 
gsferrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 842
Thanked: 131 Times
Default

Yup..it is vague and it never feels the same from one day to the other. I've never driven a jeep as long as I have driven the Gypsy but m CJ3B felt just as vague. No such problems with the bolero though.
gsferrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2010, 15:58   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 834 Times
Default

Vague is an understatement. My steering has a different feel everyday so during an OTR we usually engage in mind games
Seriously Jeep owners have to learn to live with the vagueness. Thats one of the attributes one needs to get used to. I dont think you should change your set up and incur a huge expense only because your Jeep is OTR specific and for very rare and occasional in-city driving
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2010, 22:41   #13
BHPian
 
narendra.vw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bangaloru
Posts: 290
Thanked: 393 Times
Default

I would suggest start with miner repair. Check steering box play. there is a stud with nut on it, loosen the nut, screw the stud check the play. Tighten the nut back. Chuck the idle arm bush for play if necessary replace the bush. Add steering dampers for steering rod (benz OE dampers).
narendra.vw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2010, 14:50   #14
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Tejas@perioimpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,947
Thanked: 4,766 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
What? You want to lose the only theft protection a Jeep has?

The steering vagueness has completely stopped bothering me. I just check the steering box regularly to ensure it hasn't become loose.
Just exploring options. Is this loosening of the steering box a regular feature? I thought it was specific to my Classic only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
I honestly thought the Gypsy was as bad as it could get.
GS, gypsy steering is 100 times better than the jeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
I dont think you should change your set up and incur a huge expense only because your Jeep is OTR specific and for very rare and occasional in-city driving
Goji, not for city driving, but driving upto the OTR trail on the highway does one feel the necessity for better steering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by narendra.vw View Post
I would suggest start with miner repair. Check steering box play. there is a stud with nut on it, loosen the nut, screw the stud check the play. Tighten the nut back. Chuck the idle arm bush for play if necessary replace the bush. Add steering dampers for steering rod (benz OE dampers).
Thanks. After going through Arka's thread, i am considering dampers.
Tejas@perioimpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2010, 15:20   #15
BHPian
 
starter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 900
Thanked: 263 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Same vagueness in my Gypsy as well (new).

I don't mind it because it helps on OTRs where the steering spins wildly but it still manageable as long as you keep your thumbs out of the way and don't fight it too much. I expect the spinning and the violence of the spins will be much stronger if the steering was more precise.

It isn't too annoying on the highway at speeds.

Tejas - let me drive your jeep to see if there is a huge difference from the Gypsy. I honestly thought the Gypsy was as bad as it could get.
GS,
Trust me, Gypsy steering isn't vague at all. Atleast not in my Gypsy.
Jeep's steering is scary/crazy. From the little driving of Jeeps that i've done, It is exactly what Samurai has experienced while driving Arka's Jeep.
It was a old CJ500D which i've driven and you could never rely on the steering wheel position and drive that Jeep. The driver of that Jeep, an old man, told me to watch the front wheels and drive. So, when you compare that to a Gypsy, Gypsy is as good as a car.
Headers (Vikram) suggested me to get the king-pin checked. Maybe, you might also want to get it checked in MASS on the next service.
Cheers,
Deepak
starter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making a 3B/Jeep more Comfortable Red Liner 4x4 Technical 46 10th October 2010 17:20
Making a non powersteering car steering lighter. abhibh Technical Stuff 11 19th September 2010 14:22
Sprucing up Gypsy King MPFI and making it more reliable (for the RAID etc) aditya.b Modifications & Accessories 35 15th July 2010 16:07
Making a Scorpio more comfortable astatine Modifications & Accessories 23 6th January 2010 10:15


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks