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Old 26th May 2010, 10:51   #31
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Someone somewhere has to bite the bullet. Grading of trails is the way ahead to keep the sport ever so challenging and making people want to come back for more.

I see it as the way to ensure the event stays viable and actually becomes a commercial success which is important for any sport.

Grading of trails won't fragment the sport. It will make it safer, more enjoyable, fewer risks taken, and overall a huge learning experience.
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Old 26th May 2010, 11:30   #32
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Someone somewhere has to bite the bullet. Grading of trails is the way ahead to keep the sport ever so challenging and making people want to come back for more.

I see it as the way to ensure the event stays viable and actually becomes a commercial success which is important for any sport.

Grading of trails won't fragment the sport. It will make it safer, more enjoyable, fewer risks taken, and overall a huge learning experience.
Hi DKG,

If it has to be done, then in a way which is accepted by all and OBJECTIVE.

I use a simple method, to rate an OTR Event

1) No. of Camping Out Nights

2) Weather - Sunny/Raining/Pleasant/Cold

3) Recovery Situation/Gear/Preparation

4) Type of OTR (Trail Driving/Expedition/Competition)

Newbies -

1)Less than 3 OTRs +1 Outstation OTR with their own Vehicles.

2)and they become experienced(Oldies) once they are able to effect recoveries efficiently and explain the OTR Driving Basics to more recent newbies.

Guys please add/subtract or modify where necessary.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 26th May 2010 at 11:32.
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Old 26th May 2010, 11:43   #33
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The principle laid down by Deepak are fundamental to organised sport of 4WD. At this point there is no organised sport but only organised events.

Look at TPC (and its splinter) claiming to do the sport for low or no cost. They are organising one event and hence grading does not come in to play.

Trail grading can only happen if you have established trails that any organiser can choose and pick for an event.

For automotive sports we have FMSCI which in turn has a sub-body for governing Rallying. The federation or rally commission does not organise events but set rules and govern the conduct. Perhaps we need to a have a sub-body for 4WD sport too which will be tasked with grading.

As to being organiser it is tough to say NO to outsider participation but by issuing competition numbers and ID cards (yes that costs) you can differentiate outsiders and keep out of trouble with local authorities.

Please accept my enrolment application into the academy.
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Old 26th May 2010, 11:50   #34
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Sudev, you have rich experience as official in Raid-de-himalaya and Desert Storm. Can you break down the different roles and responsibilities of various players in administration and organization of motor sport?
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Old 26th May 2010, 13:31   #35
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If it has to be done, then in a way which is accepted by all and OBJECTIVE.
Arka I personally feel you won't run into too many "political" issues here. Allow me to explain. Lets say you go out and identify two trails, one you feel would fall under the "4wd Challenging" category and another which falls under the "4wd Hard" category. Lets say you use a simple rule whereby 4wd Hard simply cannot be done by a stock vehicle.

Now who is going to challenge your decision or question it? You can always tell the objectors, please complete the trail in a stock vehicle and you will agree to downgrade it to 4wd Challenging. I don't see where you will run into issues of people questioning your decision.

With your experience you will know in an instant where the trail really exceeds a stock vehicle's limitations. Once you see that and declare a trail as 4wd Hard I don't see many people questioning your classification.

Am I missing out on something? I believe it can be done and it should be done Arka. Infact you should along with a few more of your Jeep Thrills friends start grading trails across India. Once done it will be mindblowing fun for all of us, believe me !

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At this point there is no organised sport but only organised events.
Mr. Sudev please keep sharing more thoughts on how we progress this. Tejas has already broached the subject of a 4wd regulatory body. This should be taken further. Would make the entire sport so much more involving and a huge learning experience

Last edited by DKG : 26th May 2010 at 13:36.
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Old 26th May 2010, 14:59   #36
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Aside
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Mr. Sudev ......
Quaking in my shoes as I can not figure out if Mr. is used as threat or jest! DKG lets be on first name or name handle basis only?
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Old 26th May 2010, 15:04   #37
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Aside


Quaking in my shoes as I can not figure out if Mr. is used as threat or jest! DKG lets be on first name or name handle basis only?
its by habit ! We grew up being taught to address elders respectfully. BD is much older than me so Behram bhai or Mr. Dhabhar comes naturally to me. But its Sudev from now on !!

Last edited by DKG : 26th May 2010 at 15:06.
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Old 16th July 2013, 11:36   #38
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

Saw this thread only today, what can I say ? not much after dedicating about 20 years of my life and almost all weekends to this sports.

To help others get started in it, I am writing a book on off roading in India. It should be out at around chritsmas this year.

Looking for an artist to do some illustrations locally here in Delhi.

The book will be published in English, in India and I am going to include names of all off road clubs in India or enthusiasts from every city and team bhp members who organize trips and event.
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Old 21st July 2013, 01:23   #39
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

Just bumped into this thread and now glued!

Very good and about time initiative Deepak, this is what I was trying to impress upon Vinod on 4X4 Excursions, that we need to evolve and organize something more, events that are looked forward to, through the year and not a 'been there done that' kind of track where you would reluctantly, but go the following year.

With due respects, Arka, Tejas and Deepak, Vikram, Dwarak, Shibu, MP Srinivas and others, you all can make this possible and not UBS Sir or BD Sir.
Everyone is cut out differently and some of you are good at administrative skills while the others are good at event organization and are experienced respectively.

1. All India Core admin and org team needs to be formed and culminate as one.

2. Data base of available
(non forest land) tracks, all India.

Events, Track grading/ levels, Vehicle/ Driver classification etc. are possible only after the above No. 1 & 2 and possibly 3,4 ...
Regards,
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Old 21st July 2013, 22:05   #40
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Just bumped into this thread and now glued!
Dear Deepak / Fazal / Shahid and all - thanks for this fantastic thread and its revival. I am keen to learn more and more of off-roading, so I am glued too!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st July 2013, 22:29   #41
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

Honestly speaking the off-road scene is much better in India when it comes to conditions, terrain and weather compared to what it is in UAE, its just sand and Wadis and dry river beds.

India has the all year around weather conditions and the four corners of India offering the best of terrains is perfect for this niche sport to develop to its unlimited limits.

A massive co-ordination with discipline is required on an all India scale to make the sport spread wide and become popular.

I feel the off-road 4WD enthusiast as the money, machine, equipment provider and the will to be a part of the sport, all is needed is the affiliation with the right kind of people.

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Old 22nd July 2013, 11:46   #42
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

Revisiting thread after quite some time.

In the interim I organized three editions of UNCAGED near Chandigarh and had collected lots of feedback from participants. Also was involved in few excursion sort of events that devoted half day or so on total sand driving and dune bashing.

Almost all participants - new or old hands - enjoyed getting stuck but when there is competition with rating things do get intense. Unfortunately only way I have been able to devise rating is time based. Any other rating is taken as subjective by participants - especially the loosing ones.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 13:28   #43
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

I have had meetings with the publishers and have started organizing the basics.

The topics include :

general overview
What is 4WD all about
Know your vehicle
Lights and accesories
How to prepare your vehicle
Off road safety tips
A bit about your 4WD electricals and mechanics
4WD vehicles available in India
Does and DOnts, the safe off road driver
How to organize your vehicle
off road adventures in India
There is one for every major city - names of all people, clubs, contacts
Basic techniques of driving off road
What to do before a trip and after a trip
off road rescue techniques
Winch and its uses
GPS, WP management, tracks, routes and how it can help you
What if your vehicle breaks down
communications, safety equipment
basic first aid guide
How to grade and pace yourself - what your vehicle can do
Appendix, data charts, gear ratios, planning for fuel, off road vs on road

Besides writing these out there will be photographs taken to be included and a huge amount of sketches about suspension systems, angle of approach, departure, rescue techniques GC etc. in every chapter. These days artista hardly draw, they plot in softwares, this will take time to patiently sit with the artist and churn out the sketches. Then editing and revision.

If a team bhp member has any suggestion it will be most welcome.

Last edited by desertfox : 22nd July 2013 at 13:33.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 14:12   #44
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

^^^ good points and WHAT ONES VEHICLE CANNOT DO is also a must learn / must know for every budding off roader
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Old 22nd July 2013, 14:47   #45
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Default Re: Offroading as a sport : Fun Unlimited !!

Quote:
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I have had meetings with the publishers and have started organizing the basics.
Shahid Ji,
Nice initiative, i hope your immense knowledge/experience will come out in a good reference text.
One point can be added in your book - while going for OTR leave your ego at home. Listen and observe others. Play safe !

Shubhendra Singh
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