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Old 25th June 2014, 14:29   #61
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Default Re: 5 speed in a cj

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If so, you could go for a taller final drive ratio. It will negatively affect offroading capability though.
How can we change final drive ratio ? are spares available ?
Or you are talking about changing crown pinion set ?

Shubhendra
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Old 25th June 2014, 15:17   #62
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Default Re: 5 speed in a cj

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
How can we change final drive ratio ? are spares available ?
Or you are talking about changing crown pinion set ?

Shubhendra
Hey Shubhendra,
I do remember reading about an overdrive available for CJs.
I am not sure but it might be trammway's thread.
Will search for it and update the link.
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 25th June 2014, 17:10   #63
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

Dear Prabhuav - it is not possible to package 5 speed transmission in CL340 because of low wheelbase (80"). The transfer case will end after the rear axle starts! .

General design guidelines: articulation limit of the spicer propeller shaft yoke joint is 13 degrees at GVW, you just cannot go beyond 13 degrees as "necking" will occur (the yoke will foul the flange). Generally, you can go upto 8 degrees only, beyond which there will be NVH issues. This is done by optimally locating the pinion center line angle by changing the spring seat welding position on the axle tubes.

Due to all this, in 1994, CL540 was made. Yes it was called "CL" and it had the straight bonnet, yes it was called "540" in its nomenclature, not 500, it was made on 91" platform wheel base with base chassis taken from the petrol CJ4A. RHD and LHD vehicles were made for England / South Africa / France / Germany / Italy only. These were never sold in domestic. Although these vehicles went with the KMT90 4 speed transmission only at that time, the design was protected for 5 speed transmission which would subsequently be required to meet pass-by noise regulation as per EEC. Vehicle integration R&D always protects the design to meet future regulations, it is common practice.

The BOM codes for these vehicles were: Domestic CL340 was JP441J. Export CL540 LHD / RHD were JP442J24L / R respectively. France LHD had rectangular headlights to meet the regulation of minimum center distance between headlights of 600 mm applicable there. Germany / Italy and England vehicles went with round headlights only.

Whew! All this was only for your information. If you want highway cruisability, go for a shallower axle ratio like 4.27:1. Obviously, off-road ability will not be as good as with 5.38:1.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 25th June 2014, 21:37   #64
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

GTO >>>

Reasons to look for a 5speed:

1) The five speed GB allows one to run an aggressive differential ratio for offroad , while the overdrive in 5th make life palatable on the highway.

2) the newer 5 speed gearboxes are waaaay smoother and more efficient

3) first gear synchro - allowing one to slot smoothly into first while vehicle is in motion. the KMT makes this a pain..

BD sir,
I am aware of the yoke limitations which prompts the question - Can I use a slip yoke eliminator and work around it?

Given that the duty cycle of a offroad jeep is waaaaaaaaaaaaay lesser than a regular jeep

Vijay
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Old 26th June 2014, 16:05   #65
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

[quote=starter;3463291}
I do remember reading about an overdrive available for CJs.
Deepak[/QUOTE]

Deepak Ji,
I think you are talking about separate overdrive units like Saturn, Warn, Herme's etc.
but if i am not wrong this topic is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post
GTO >>>
1) The five speed GB allows one to run an aggressive differential ratio for offroad , while the overdrive in 5th make life palatable on the highway.
3) first gear synchro - allowing one to slot smoothly into first while vehicle is in motion. the KMT makes this a pain..
Just because of above reasons i am contemplating to move on to CL500.
Why dont you try Isuzu trooper's GB with TC ( i know you must have evaluated these options). Butter smooth GB and manageable in SWB.

Shubhendra
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Old 26th June 2014, 16:14   #66
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post

Just because of above reasons i am contemplating to move on to CL500.
Why dont you try Isuzu trooper's GB with TC ( i know you must have evaluated these options). Butter smooth GB and manageable in SWB.

Shubhendra
Banna,
Where would one find a Isuzu Trooper GB? Would it mate with a 14B? Costs?
Would it also need central diffs or the 540 offset diffs are fine?

Cheers,
Adi
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Old 26th June 2014, 16:47   #67
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

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Banna,
Where would one find a Isuzu Trooper GB? Would it mate with a 14B? Costs?
Would it also need central diffs or the 540 offset diffs are fine?

Cheers,
Adi
Aditya Bana,
Isuzu has two GBs to offer, rates are from Mayapuri market
1) 4 speed costs around 25k with bell housing
2) 5 speed costs around 30K with Bell housing

My friend has Willys'52, it had 5 speed 4x4 GB with Isuzu 2.0 ltr (HM Contessa) engine) which was laetr changed to 5 speed 2WD GB, which is now being converted to 4 speed 4WD GB.


Rear diff have to be center aligned (you can use 2wd jeep's differential) and front diff is right aligned. Rear prop shaft is smaller than 3Bs rear prop shaft and front prop shaft is longer (you can use CL650's rear prop shaft and cut it as per length requirement)
Isuzu engine with 5 speed 4WD gb is very popular in bhopal and part of Rajasthan and AP. Total set costs you around 65K and result into a smoother engine as well.
I have never seen this GB with any of the MM/Toyota engine. And i am not sure whether this GB will be able to handle torque generated by 14B.
You have MWB, you can easily fit NGT 530/530 R on your jeep. Just search for Mahindra pickup guy who wants to convert his pickup to 4 speed (dont be amazed, manu pickup owners have moved from 5 speed to 4 speed in and around Poona with the logic of better torque delivery and high maintenance costs of new 5 speed GBs)


Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 13th July 2014, 12:41   #68
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

Have a question (a couple actually):

When changing the gearbox for an MM550 to a BA10 from a KMT90 -
[here the swap is BA10 married to the T-18 transfer case]

1. Does the crown pinion for the rear diff need to change as well ? I think mine in running on the 4.88 : 1 from the factory?

2. Do both the front and rear diff crown pinions need to be swapped to the same ratio?

Many thanks!
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Old 13th July 2014, 13:42   #69
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

Quote:
Originally Posted by lugnut View Post
Have a question (a couple actually):

When changing the gearbox for an MM550 to a BA10 from a KMT90 -
[here the swap is BA10 married to the T-18 transfer case]

1. Does the crown pinion for the rear diff need to change as well ? I think mine in running on the 4.88 : 1 from the factory?

2. Do both the front and rear diff crown pinions need to be swapped to the same ratio?

Many thanks!
1. No need for changing the final drive ratio, just because you are changing the gearbox. The GB ratios arent that different to warrant a crown pinion ratio change.

2. Yes, all the drive axles should have same tyre sizes and crown pinion ratio, to avoid drive train wind up.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 15:48   #70
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

Can an NGT520 + T18 be mated to the XD3P engine?
Wasn't this the spec on the 550XDB ?

What would need to be changed to accommodate this ?
- Rear diff is driver-side aligned -check
- Not sure of the gearbox input shaft spline count -
(I think the BA-10/KMT90 comes with 21 spline, and is the NGT 520 23 splines?)
- the bell-housing would be the same as a BA-10?

Any feedback on this combination/NGT520 GB itself (if someone has tried this)?

The T-18 is a super TC the world over..so would want to hold on to this..
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Old 18th January 2015, 16:18   #71
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

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Originally Posted by lugnut View Post
Can an NGT520 + T18 be mated to the XD3P engine?
Wasn't this the spec on the 550XDB ?
Yes, it can be done, and used to come from the factory. However, I think these vehicles came only in the army.

The 550XDB was the civilian version, which had XD3P + BA10, not the NGT520.
Quote:
- the bell-housing would be the same as a BA-10?
no. need the get the different one.
Quote:
Any feedback on this combination/NGT520 GB itself (if someone has tried this)?
Lot of 2006+ army vehicles. Try it out yourself.
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Old 24th January 2015, 21:34   #72
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

Gurus please help
I'm on the look out for a mm5xx series.
Now the one that is available is said to have Peugeot engine by my mechanic.its 2wd.
He says di engines are good in terms of reliability and fuel average whereas puegeot engines are not reliable. Is it true?
Now I own a cl500 mwb jeep make 95. As per my mechanic he says it has a di engine.
The rc book says engine capacity to be 2520.
The maker classification in RC is CL 500 MDI 4WD 91 ST 6STR.
The plate on the body says CJ 500DI 2wd.
Now I'm in process of selling it as the body work has gone for a toss.
The basic reason for MM5XX series is looks and door with a hardtop which I need as well as my family.I want it as my daily drive.As a matter of fact my daily usage is 30km highway drive and then off roading in my estate.
I plan for 4wd drive with whatever I get. I really need them .
So should I keep the di engine and transplant it to the mm5xx and what are the possible 5 speed GB with TC options . I love the t18 single lever type. I don't mind using the 4speed too.
Engine options and reliability related options are also welcome.

Mods please bear with me as this was the thread I found it better to post my need.
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Old 26th January 2015, 20:59   #73
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

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Originally Posted by dinodavid View Post
Now the one that is available is said to have Peugeot engine by my mechanic.its 2wd.
He says di engines are good in terms of reliability and fuel average whereas puegeot engines are not reliable. Is it true?
The DI engine is much more reliable but crude as hell. If you are okay with your current CJ500, then it makes sense to transfer the engine to your mm540.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinodavid View Post
The rc book says engine capacity to be 2520.
The maker classification in RC is CL 500 MDI 4WD 91 ST 6STR.
The plate on the body says CJ 500DI 2wd.
This was the first DI engine from Mahindra. It is the MDI2500 engine. It is robust with good fuel efficiency. If the engine is healthy I suggest moving it to the mm540 you are buying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinodavid View Post
I want it as my daily drive.As a matter of fact my daily usage is 30km highway drive and then off roading in my estate.
Since the mm540 you are considering is 2WD, you can transfer the 4WD System from the CJ to the mm. The most robust combination for off-road is the 4+Reverese KMT90 gearbox that comes stock on the MM series along with the twin lever T18 Transfer case.
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Old 26th January 2015, 21:45   #74
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Yes, it can be done, and used to come from the factory. However, I think these vehicles came only in the army.

The 550XDB was the civilian version, which had XD3P + BA10, not the NGT520.

no. need the get the different one.

Lot of 2006+ army vehicles. Try it out yourself.
Cool & thanks!

One more from me please - need to confirm the 5500XDB (BA10/5) from came equipped with 4.88 on the axles or lower (4.27)?

Cheers -
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Old 27th January 2015, 01:14   #75
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Default Re: M&M Engine and Gearbox combos for JEEPs

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Originally Posted by lugnut View Post
One more from me please - need to confirm the 5500XDB (BA10/5) from came equipped with 4.88 on the axles or lower (4.27)?
Yup. and, AFAIK, all Peugeot engines came with 4.88, except for some earlier ones with 5.38
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