Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


View Poll Results: would u love to take ur 3b to a rally?
yes 4 21.05%
never 14 73.68%
already done that 1 5.26%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th October 2010, 13:28   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 252
Thanked: 6 Times
Default reliability of a 3b? rally ready?

I just returned from the raid de himalayas, I went in my scorpio. Was wondering if it would be possible to get my 3b there? It was a very compelling desire to do so. planning to take it for the desert storm.

so i wish to ask all the 3b owners that how reliable is your jeep? What max distance have you done at a go? what are the major issues you faced? has any one done a rally in it? i am sure many people did it before the gypsys turned up, so all the veterans please share your experience as i am itching to take it on the next rally in feb.
regards
sharat

NOTE FROM MOD : There were way too many spelling / grammatical errors in your post. Corrected. Also, do note that Team-BHP strictly prohibits use of SMS / Slang language.

Last edited by GTO : 21st October 2010 at 11:44. Reason: Read Mod Note in your post
docfreak is offline   Reply With Quote Received Infraction
Old 19th October 2010, 14:07   #2
BHPian
 
Torque-ative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 487
Thanked: 54 Times
Default

No !

Negs:-
-Suspension horribly bumpy,...need coils.
-Engine does not take abuse well (especially sustained high rpm usage)
-Lack of 4-5th gears.
-Non-evolved cooling system (over-heats easily).

positives
-Great torque to weight ratio
-Unbeatable off road (relatively speaking)
-Very relaxed off road (Does not need to be revved)
-SWB, tough little jeep.
Torque-ative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2010, 19:19   #3
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 252
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

if we put in a coolant and overflow tank system?
why do u say doesnt take too much abuse?
docfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2010, 23:07   #4
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,438
Thanked: 1,928 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by docfreak View Post
so i wish to ask all the 3b owners that how reliable is ur jeep? what max distance have u done at a go?
sharat
With CJ3Bs:- In the 70s, used to regularly do 260Km runs. Max I've done would be ~600 Km in a day, and ~1000 Km over two days. Thought nothing of it then, but would shudder at the thought now.

The CJ3Bs did not break down on the road (Temp stoppages were not considered breakdowns. Breakdowns were like blowing the head gasket). But needed a lot of garage time. Compared to today. Once again, at that time, thought it normal.

So if you can get original parts, and bring it back to original specs, you'll get original performance.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 05:23   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 252
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

back to original specs it is.
i would like to know that what did the temp stoppages mean? as in after how many kms did u usually stop? what would u do fr the temp management? did u drive in the hot north plains or some where cooler?

any new temperature controlling mechanisms we can fit on ? as far as i think the weak links are the fuel pump heating up and lack of a coolant system. any new fuel pumps that can do the trick without heating up?
docfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 07:56   #6
BHPian
 
genesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 764
Thanked: 288 Times
Default

So i tried to find a technical answer to why I voted no, and the one thing which keeps coming to mind is: Would you take a grandma to a tough gruelling rally like desert storm? I would rather take her to a sedate peaceful rally like the ones they do for fund raising or a day of off-roading.

Gut tells me that if you had a great support crew carrying talented mechanics and a arsenal of spares, you could pull it off.

Statistically speaking here is my real life input:

Never done a high speed rally
Max km done in a day has been 270km including hard core offroading.
Max speed 75kmph. Gogi's CJ belts above 80 easy. Engine screams at those speeds. I worry not about the speed but at the ability to stop at 75.
Cornering ability at high speeds and winding mountain bends is worrying
Offroad, fuel pump heats up from time to time but never on highway
Never broken down on highways (other than snapped fan belt once) but never driven more than 80 km nonstop.

I guess what makes me say no is lack of data/experiences for sustained abusive high speed driving so would listen to this thread to see what others have to say also.

DKG drove his CJ from Hyderabad to Lonavala/Karjat for AKC. He would be a good person to tap.
genesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 08:45   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
fazalaliadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 2,022
Thanked: 623 Times
Default


docfreak,


CJ3B, a very reliable machine, workhorse, time tested and so much more.

It is possible to realize your proposal depending the condition of your Jeep.

Big question is the Desert Storm.

Reg. the fuel pump heating up, this an be overcome by adding an electric fuel pump to the existing mechanical, as suggested by DB Sir, it sure works.

In recent times the only person I know who has done long runs followed by OTR's in it is DKG and he would be the manual you should refer to.

Also Sutripta Genesis and Torque-ative' s experiences are very valuable.

Regards,
fazalaliadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 12:43   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,653
Thanked: 679 Times
Default

@Docfreak, The CJ3B if properly used and maintained is the most reliable machine. Much much more than the present so called Jeep look alikes/SUV's. If you ask me the reason- it has to be the simplicity of design (if you happen to see original Willys drawings you will understand.)

Spike
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2010, 14:00   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,850
Thanked: 15,406 Times
Default

Aren't rallies about fast driving. Most rallys, even Desert Storm or the Raid never require use of 4x4. 4x2 does fine.
Some stages for special categories have some 4x4 usage which any AWD vehicle or a soft roader with full time 4wd can do.
What is required is speed
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2010, 11:49   #10
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 252
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

everyone refers to dkg and the man is missing from the show!!!!

well i was planning on the desert storm as an official , planned to do some desert offroading when i am there, so the question was more of endurance and reliability than speed.

my jeep is absolutely perfect other than the point that the fuel pump does heat up , longest i have driven is 200km without any issue including offroading.speeds that i do cruise on are approx 60-70, 80 is a screamer. but the DS would be a different ballgame, high temp. sand. loingish distances daily. so the reliabilty comes in as a question.

4*4 would be always be nice on any rallly event that has offroad sections. that what i have experienced so far.

the simplicity of design is what propels me to take her , that even a tech dummy like me can fighure out whats wrong and how to get it right(most of the times).

any suggestions for increasing the fuel pump endurance against mech fatigue at high operating temp?
docfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2010, 12:59   #11
BHPian
 
genesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 764
Thanked: 288 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by docfreak View Post
any suggestions for increasing the fuel pump endurance against mech fatigue at high operating temp?
Yes! Yes! Wet sock filled with sand wrapped around the fuel pump and moistened from time to time. I am dead serious. Even thinking of getting a sprinkler/drip mechanism above the pump.

The other one is to put a UCAL electric/electronic fuel pump in series and use it when the mechanical one acts up. I have put one in but have not had to use it yet (courtesy: wet sock ). DKG has one which he has used in summer. Jaggu has one which I dont know if he has used.

Configurations include the BD recommended return fuel line, DKG implemented no return line but pressure regulator tap to relieve high pressure, and the mundane no return line or pressure tap. Most of them have documented their experiences.
genesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2010, 13:24   #12
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,489
Thanked: 6,767 Times
Default

Adding some additional packing between engine and fuel pump helps in this heat issue. Atleast in mine it has not conked off till date touches wood.

Max distance traveled would be around 150-180 kms. But will i do raide? Unless i do a complete ground up restoration with all brand new parts, a Big NO!

More than reliability, i get bugged up with the top speeds while driving long trips lol
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2010, 13:25   #13
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,571 Times
Default

Dear Docfreak - this will comprehensively answer all your questions. The year is 1983. The event is the Himalayan Rally. The vehicle is a CJ4A, everything same as CJ3B except for the wheelbase. The award is the "Second National Prize". That's me in the then fashionable "Safari Suit" on the left of the picture, holding the trophy alongwith Sunil Shanbhag. Mr.Buta Singh was the chief guest. Farad Bhathena is to the extreme left in the picture.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Attached Thumbnails
reliability of a 3b? rally ready?-scan0008.jpg  

reliability of a 3b? rally ready?-scan0009.jpg  

Attached Images
 

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 21st October 2010 at 13:28.
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2010, 10:15   #14
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 39
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Those are nice old pics. Farad OMG !!!

A CJ3B can not handle high speeds that you require to do in rallies. You will have to use a longer wheel base jeep. Docfreak

Last edited by Jaggu : 22nd October 2010 at 19:20. Reason: Back to back post, please EDIT the original post instead. Thanks
jagat nanjappa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2010, 16:11   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
Kandisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Noida
Posts: 1,040
Thanked: 203 Times
Default

Doc, though i don't own a 3b, but here are some thoughts. Since you will be going as an official, off course speed is not the 1st priority. But in any case you need to travel considerable distances in supposedly harsh condition. My suggestion, why not take the jeep for a spin for a short trip? May be a 2-3 day trip to any of the nearer destinations? You can apply the already given suggestions on the fuel pump if it is required. And you can also get to check the reliability of the jeep beyond exclusive offroading. If it holds up, take it to the Storm or else improve on the possible fault areas based on the trip feedback in case you are really interested to take the 3B for the rally. But seeing a CJ3B in a modern day rally, even as an official vehicle, will be really interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...Max distance traveled would be around 150-180 kms. But will i do raide? Unless i do a complete ground up restoration with all brand new parts, a Big NO!
More than reliability, i get bugged up with the top speeds while driving long trips lol
+1 to both the points. Driving at 60 in the highways along with the fast moving cars will really be a pain. And yes new parts in the key mechanical areas is a necessity for a long and demanding trip. The only reason my petrol jeep successfully completed the Ladakh trip (few of the days, we were on the roads for 14-16 hours) without any failure was due to brand new/completely overhauled parts in almost all key mechanical areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Docfreak - this will comprehensively answer all your questions. The year is 1983. The event is the Himalayan Rally. The vehicle is a CJ4A,....
Thanks for sharing those great pics. A cj4A in himalayan rally, thats really something great.
Kandisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help for getting my Gypsy 'Rally-ready' Gentle Giant 4x4 Vehicles 2 31st January 2012 12:41
Tata to launch race/rally ready Indica Rtech Indian Motorsport 97 29th September 2008 18:44
Shell Reliability Surprise Technical Stuff 6 27th June 2005 17:40
Now this real MB Reliability (4.6mil KM) _Crazi4Speed_ The International Automotive Scene 7 29th September 2004 01:57
Impact of electronics on reliability ajmat Technical Stuff 17 8th July 2004 00:08


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:28.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks