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Old 29th October 2010, 16:51   #16
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Default Aluminium vs GCI

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Arka, why do you think KMT 90 (GCI-Grey Cast Iron type) transmissions are considered to be more rugged when compared to Aluminium alloy (AS9U3).

I still haven't condescended to your earlier statement on genes though!

Spike
Hi Spike,

I think the KMT90 is better than the BA10, for the following reason.

1) Length - There is much more deflection is the Gear Box Casing considering the mounting is still the T-18 T-Case and cross member.

2) Simplicity. Comparison of the Operating Lever, Synchronizer Cones.

3) Ruggedness. The BA10 (Bolero & Scorpio) was notorious for the Main Gear Shaft Bearing Failure, near the out put Yoke/Companion Flange.


The Advantage of Aluminium Gear Box Case has been because of

1) Weight.

2) Easier to Machine.

3) Better Heat Dissipation.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 29th October 2010, 17:14   #17
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Boss (@kd7202) don't listen to all these jeepie fellows. They actually know a lot more than they will have us know, and end up confusing all of us!!!
An XD3P engine and a 5 spd BA10 combination in good shape will cost you about 40K or max 45K in Chennai.
Arka will help you.
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Old 29th October 2010, 17:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

I think the KMT90 is better than the BA10, for the following reason.

---------
I agree with some of your points. But, considering the deflection, it is too feeble to be noticed. If it was large enough the Aluminium casings would have split open. Yes synchronizer rings are different. The cause for bearing failures were different which were eliminated in future versions.

Spike

PS- Propeller shaft also plays a prominent role here.
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Old 29th October 2010, 17:44   #19
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Default Prop Shaft

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
PS- Propeller shaft also plays a prominent role here.
Hi Spike,

Since you are the expert please elaborate.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 29th October 2010, 17:58   #20
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@jyobeb

All this discussion is only adding to my knowledge, so let them carry on.

Anyway, I got in touch with miyer and he has offered his help.

Cheers

KD
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Old 29th October 2010, 21:59   #21
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Wonder what the Indian Army, or Jim Allen have against the BA10?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 30th October 2010, 07:00   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
May be this deserves to be in the 4x4 technical section, or may be not...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
Boss (@kd7202) don't listen to all these jeepie fellows. They actually know a lot more than they will have us know, and end up confusing all of us!!!...

See my 1st line... this thread was in the cars section, exactly why I wasnt sure about bringing it inside here.

KD7202, if you ready to pay a small premium, talk to India Garage and get the rebuild done there. Else, Babu garage opposite to MTR Cafe on lalbagh road is well sought after in bangy.
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Old 30th October 2010, 12:53   #23
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Dear Santosh,

I am in touch with Miyer and he's going to introduce me to Babu in a couple of days as he's busy today & tmrw in organising the Conty meet in Bangalore.

Let's see what Babu says.

Cheers

KD
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Old 30th October 2010, 15:49   #24
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Default Money is the answer :-)

KD7202,
Simple answer-
Engine
Rebuild your 2.1 litre engine if short on money. If comfortable with money buy an old running XD3p engine and use it till it dies down. rebuild it later.

Gearbox
Again for short distance running and pure off roading KMT 90 is the best. Again if you have money buy an old BA 10 for good money and spend even more rebuilding it if you land up getting a faulty piece.

So crucial thing is time and money. If you have both in plenty go for XD3p and BA 10. Else stick to present combination and rebuild what you have. Known devil is better than unknown.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 30th October 2010 at 15:51.
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Old 30th October 2010, 16:09   #25
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An XDP3 mated with a BA-10 is ultimate in reliability when it comes to
off-roading or cruising.

BA-10 works like silk on this engine as I have experienced also the Isuzu GB done by me with an XDP3...not yet come across a better configuration when it comes to performance.

Probably the army has a mindset that KMT-90 is rugged and their preference of proven ruggedness over costlier comfort is the reason they did not deviate.

This combination, BA-10+XDP3, for Rs.45 000?? (mentioned here) and also a BA-10 for Rs.20 000? Let me know guys if its true and I will pick up at least two, provided they are complete.

Regards,
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Old 30th October 2010, 17:31   #26
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Ah, Mr Fazal, finally a one on one! You can definitely get a BA10 for less than 20K, in fact I could get you an NGT530 for about 25K! (Both are 2wd as that is what KD7202 wants)
However do tell me more about your Trooper Gearbox.
My jeep goes back to the workshop on Monday for an interesting power train change. I removing my Scorpio engine and NGT530 manual shift 4wd gearbox (Already sold to Mansoor, so no offers for it please ) and fixing an Isuzu 4JG2 3.1l engine and an Isuzu MUA5 manual shift gearbox with an integrated transfer case.
Picture will be updated on my thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...-my-mm550.html (My MM550)

Last edited by jyobeb : 30th October 2010 at 17:40.
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Old 30th October 2010, 19:53   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
Ah, Mr Fazal, finally a one on one! You can definitely get a BA10 for less than 20K, in fact I could get you an NGT530 for about 25K! (Both are 2wd as that is what KD7202 wants)
However do tell me more about your Trooper Gearbox.
My jeep goes back to the workshop on Monday for an interesting power train change. I removing my Scorpio engine and NGT530 manual shift 4wd gearbox (Already sold to Mansoor, so no offers for it please ) and fixing an Isuzu 4JG2 3.1l engine and an Isuzu MUA5 manual shift gearbox with an integrated transfer case.
Picture will be updated on my thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...-my-mm550.html (My MM550)
Hi Jyobeb,

My oversight, missed that the BA-10's price quoted was for a 2WD.

The Isuzu GB is trouble free and very smooth to operate, as I have experienced it and also endorsed by some who have it on their Jeeps... swear by it and say "run it for thousands of kilometers and it never lets you down".

However, the down side is...as it is a long gearbox, which necessitates that the GB cross member be moved to the rear, thus sacrificing on the break-over angle.

The distance between the transfer case joint to the front differential joint is huge, this again has to be compensated by a long front shaft and a short rear shaft (pics. below).

Yours is a Bolero chassis so the dimensions will differ from a 540/550's, for the rear end.

All the best with your project, the configuration looks very good with a beast of an engine.

A question though, how is the present engine-gearbox doing and your reason for proposed change?

Regards,

XD3P Engine & 5-speed Gear Box-j14.jpg
XD3P Engine & 5-speed Gear Box-j15.jpg

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 30th October 2010 at 20:03.
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Old 30th October 2010, 20:39   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Probably the army has a mindset that KMT-90 is rugged and their preference of proven ruggedness over costlier comfort is the reason they did not deviate.
Correct, it is only the mindset and nothing else.

Have a look at this pic. XD3P Engine & 5-speed Gear Box-1.jpg

What can be the reason for selecting this transmission? It has to be- simplicity and ease of repair. In our lingo we call it SAM (Serviceability Accessabilty and Maintainability). Frankly speaking there is nothing inside this transmission.

Spike
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Old 30th October 2010, 23:01   #29
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Dear Vinod,

Thanks very much for your inputs. My responses given below in bold - (hope it's permitted)

Engine
Rebuild your 2.1 litre engine if short on money. If comfortable with money buy an old running XD3p engine and use it till it dies down. rebuild it later.

Rebuilding the existing engine & the GB as well is what I have in mind. Miyer is introducing me to the best jeep mech in town. Also, changing the differential ratio as suggested by Shekaran is also on the cards so that I get more top speed. Currently I am not able to do more than 60 kmph, when I try, it feels as if I am in 2nd gear and not 4th. Lets see what the mech says.

Gearbox
Again for short distance running and pure off roading KMT 90 is the best. Again if you have money buy an old BA 10 for good money and spend even more rebuilding it if you land up getting a faulty piece.

Short distance for me would be an occasional week end trip of about 600 kms. No off roading !! I am more of a spectator, not a participant.

So crucial thing is time and money. If you have both in plenty go for XD3p and BA 10. Else stick to present combination and rebuild what you have. Known devil is better than unknown.

Rebuilding is the best option given the time and money at my disposal. If I spend any more big money on the jeep, my wife will go into silent mode. Cant afford that !!

Cheers & and thanks for the advise. Really, you guys are real gems. If not for you, I would have spent another 50K on a XD3P engine, gear box and associated other expenses and triggered off a domestic crisis.

KD
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Old 31st October 2010, 00:18   #30
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Dear KD,
every jeep is as unique and different as aishwarya rai and sushmitha sen...pun not intended. seriously speaking, every jeep is actually built - not manufactured, so your jeep should reflect your driving style and should be capable to do all things you want whenever you need it to be...thats the philosophy behind jeeping, in my humble opinion. real jeepers would accept my statements, but off road gurus, pls excuse, as i know that you will not digest this.
in real life terms, the xdp, xd3p, mdi, turbo, crde - all engines cater to different tastes, but if indian army finds the KMT90 bulletproof, then there is no second opinion on that, so reg your gearbox, rebuild the KMT90.
[if you want any used KMT90 with 4WD transfercase, you can contact mr.mhd ali, from chennai - the best jeep mechanic in chennai. prices range in the region of 10k to 18k depending on the condition and exchange value for your gearbox. this is suggested, if you plan to convert to 4wd, in future only....else, forget this paragraph pls.]
reg the xdp engine, if the mechanic uses good quality liners, pistons, rings, and does a good job in connecting rod/head/valve - lathe work settings, then your old engine will be as fresh as it came from M&M - when new. this rebuilt engine, will surely run one lakh kms without any niggles, which might bring you a lot of peace (also piece) of mind.this rebuild will cost anything between 14k to 25k, depending on your present engine conditions.
all prices are quoted the highest and am sure, if your engine just needs work, then half of what i said would be your expenses. so expect anything from 8k-12k for the GB and 10k-15k for the xdp engine.
when you rebuild the engine, you can change the diff ratio from your present 4.88 to a lower ratio, for a better high speed. this would cost you another 3k-5k, depending on market availability of gears (used ones).
so, in total for 30k, you can have a new, fresh transmission, with higher top speed also. as you are not into offroading, what you have decided would be your best bet.
finally, domestic catastrophies can also be best avoided, as a diwali bonus !!!
Have a safe jeeping, Cheers.

Last edited by shekaran : 31st October 2010 at 00:21. Reason: spelling mistakes
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