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Old 24th January 2011, 13:46   #16
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

THIS is what separates the men from the boys:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...-25-years.html (Kalimantan, Borneo - the first motorized vehicles crossing in 25 years)



ofc, dil pe mat lo, tongue in cheek mai lo and all that disclaimers applies
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Old 24th January 2011, 14:01   #17
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

At first glance over the replies ( alphabetically )

@ Arkaji - much ,very much closer ( as usual ) ( 7.938/10)

@ bblost - come on more of it

@Jagguji - yes good points ,need more

@Nikhil- good pics doing the talking.

@ Sharatji - more, it doesn't sound like you .

@ Sudarshan- confused ( now less ) , Thinking a lot ,trying to understand what you all have said .

@spitfire- thoughtfull

@Tejas sir - a specialist's talk .

@wolf -hmm, ( my way of saying , went over head )

@ live to jive - no wonder you are a happy go lucky guy

@ music man - I feel the same

@ phamilyman - its great, a dream for any off roader

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 24th January 2011 at 14:04.
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Old 24th January 2011, 14:16   #18
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
At first glance over the replies ( alphabetically )

@ bblost - come on more of it

@Jagguji - yes good points ,need more

@ Sharatji - more, it doesn't sound like you .

Sudarshan
Dude, are you provoking people to write more to increase the number of posts or wat ???

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
@wolf -hmm, (my way of saying , went over head )
Which part bro ??

Last edited by The Wolf : 24th January 2011 at 14:18.
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Old 24th January 2011, 14:27   #19
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Off road terrain which can be done in the following vehicle would be Low to Moderately difficult.

- 4x4 (with or without low ratio)
- Normal Gear ratios
- Medium to long wheel base
- GC 185 mm and above
- HT / AT tyres
- Medium articulation
- IFS (tuned towards better on-road manners)
- Medium to long over hangs

terrain needing at a bare minimum following specs would be difficult to very difficult;-

- 4x4 with two speed transfer case
- Low to very low crawl ratio
- Medium to Short wheel base
- GC 200 and above
- AT / MT tyres
- High articulation
- Solid axle (coil / leaf)
- Low or NO overhangs


Note:- Diff locks, LSD, etc goes further into making a good off-roader only better.
These points have been put down purely based on personal experiences where we have had to park SUV's and take jeeps / gypsy only forward to be collected later.

Last edited by Torque-ative : 24th January 2011 at 14:32. Reason: added more info.
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Old 24th January 2011, 14:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Dude, are you provoking people to write more to increase the number of posts or wat ???
I think the main artillery is yet to come in & open up from them .


Quote:
Which part bro ??
Everything , at first I thought I was reading some section in a ' law book '

Sudarshan
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Old 24th January 2011, 14:36   #21
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

All terms are relative. Whats hardcore to one may not be to another. I guess Hardcore would need the use of a 4X4, so 2X4s are out. For a novice, a moderate obstacle may be hardcore but for a veteran, it may not. What may be hardcore for me might be a breeze for others like Samurai or Arka or Allen. Its all experience. A novice in a fully prepared 4X4 might not be able to cross a slush pond due to lack of experience, so that might be hardcore for him. For another who gently slides through the same place due to proper spotting and experience, may find that easy. I remember during the last EXAMM event, after the sheer decline there was a slush pit which needed to get past. Many experienced people were getting stuck and i crossed it in one shot, why, coz thanks to Patrick and Samurai, who encouraged me to tackle it and spotted for me. So for me that would not be hardcore if i didnt know better (and if i was pompous enough to think i crossed it, owing to my own skills) but for almost all, it was from moderately difficult to hardcore.

There are certain obstacles which my stock CJ will not overcome, due to many limitations, and after many trials, i realize this obstacle is not for the CJ, so does that count as hard core? For me no, as i realize the Cj is not meant for it, (like the river bed in AKC when i got stuck die to a makeshift dam giving way) for a first time driver, maybe yes. So its all subjective and relative. One really cant put a definition to this word.
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Old 24th January 2011, 14:57   #22
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Frankly Speaking :
Hardcore Offroading = Done by People with Enough Resources and Time - People Who have acheived financially !
Softcore Offraoding = Done by People who dont have the guts and more than enough bank balance to see their machines breaking apart due to extreme conditions imposed !
All retributions accepted with due apologies in Advance - especially from gurus !?!
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Old 24th January 2011, 15:10   #23
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Trying to measure or rate a trail is no different than trying to measure poetry. Therefore, I was basing it on the ease/difficulty of crossing than vehicle ability or driver ability, for they can vary wildly. If you start looking at vehicle ability, what is our basis? It can be anywhere between a Gypsy to a Bowler Wild Cat. Same goes for driver skill.

Those of you who have seen Dead Poet Society, might remember this scene:



What is a great poem? Something that touches you or moves you emotionally. It doesn't have to follow certain fixed rules.

So what is hardcore offroading? Something that needed help from others in either spotting or towing, you couldn't do it alone. That's my take. Not every vehicle or driver might need help on that terrain. Or they might if it rained. Most terrains change after rain or after few vehicles passing through.

Therefore, trying to define hardcore offroading is as impossible as trying to define great poem.
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Old 24th January 2011, 15:11   #24
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
So its all subjective and relative. One really cant put a definition to this word.
What you are saying is fairly true .

I am not looking for 'exact' definition , but I want something to hold on to . The links Arka has given are much useful & informative .

I always want to know what I am doing , what I am up to .I like to have sound reasoning for that . This all thinking started when a journalist asked me about what exactly is off roading & what exactly I do & achieve out of it , as she wanted to write an article on off roading . Her husband is a friend of mine who likes Jeeps & happen to come with me for off roading,even he seemed to had lost on that . This kept both of us thinking . This happened a month ago .Till then I haven't thought for an answer for any such question .Initially I thought it was easy but not so . That's the reason for asking it here .

Sometimes things look so simple, but look closely and the answers are very interesting .

Sudarshan

@ Shekaran - So True , truth & fact of life .

Last edited by Sudarshan : 24th January 2011 at 15:14.
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Old 24th January 2011, 15:25   #25
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

let me add what i think is hardcore offroading

*terrain needing lifted vehicles with modified suspension
*terrain needing modified and engine transplants for that much needed extra power
*terrain where front and rear difflocks are needed

from what i have experienced and seen
, no where in india is that level of offroading conducted
though we have vehicles capable for such terrain, and we certainly have the terrain

regards
Allan
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Old 24th January 2011, 15:31   #26
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
subject to acceptability by members like Samurai.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
What may be hardcore for me might be a breeze for others like Samurai or Arka or Allen. Its all experience.
Jeez guys, the way you are referring to me, I had to look over my shoulder. Just because I regularly yap about 4x4, doesn't make me an expert. I only do it to improve my understanding. Mentioning Arka or Allen, who can build a Jeep from scratch, along with me, who can at most change oil (only seen it done, not tried it personally), is really ridiculous. I am the same guy who almost toppled Aditya's MM540 on the infamous slope to prove a point. So don't overestimate my knowledge or skill.

I am only giving my personal opinion in this thread, nothing more.
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Old 24th January 2011, 16:13   #27
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
This all thinking started when a journalist asked me about what exactly is off roading & what exactly I do & achieve out of it , as she wanted to write an article on off roading.
For me its an activity which i thoroughly enjoy. Spending time with vehicles, garages, some photography and pretty good friends. Relatively safe sport where i can push the envelope a little bit and get some adrenalin rush.

Learn new things about vehicles, driving, people and in general have a good time. And as long as i am having a good time, rest of things don't matter, like the frustration of vehicles breaking down, stuck in some god forsaken part of world without help etc.

So main thing for me, have a good time! be it trail driving or heavy offroading. What do i say, its like asking a hobby painter, why you paint?
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Old 24th January 2011, 17:28   #28
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

um.. does this qualify??..

Videos Posted by Zurmat.com: Unbelievable Driving...! (Habibies) [HQ] | Facebook

2nd Part of it!

Last edited by dhanushs : 24th January 2011 at 17:31.
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Old 24th January 2011, 22:19   #29
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Extreme off-roading has shifting goalposts. The more you experience the less you fear and the extremity of off-roading goes further.

I was nervous about the first EXAMM obstacle (extreme till then) but managed and my definition of extreme went couple of notches up.

Next, for me that descent where I asked Sharath to take over at EXAMM was beyond extreme as I was (still am) a novice (no point being foolishly brave). We had a bit of an issue but we survived so again definition went a couple of notches higher.

That next narrow passage that V-16 refers would have been extreme a couple of hours earlier but suddenly it wasn't. So as I went along and did it my definition of extreme changed. Today I try stuff I wouldn't have done if I hadn't experienced some obstacles.

So Extreme is a moving target which is hopefully driven by your realistic assessment of being able to do any obstacle on the basis of your experience and your vehicle's capability rather than hot-blooded bravery alone.

Mild for some experienced folks is extreme for many and extreme for some can be foolishly brave for a lot more

Given that a lot of us were at EXAMM/AKC it would help if some of the obstacles could be rated on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being most difficult) so that we start getting an idea of what us Jeepers define as "Extreme"
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Old 25th January 2011, 15:34   #30
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Default Re: What is meant by hardcore off roading ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
...All terms are relative....
Amen, brother. Very wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Trying to measure or rate a trail is no different than trying to measure poetry.
Driving down the road in my Yeti by Skoda
In my mirror I see a jeep off roada

He swung out to pass and gave me a beep,
T'was an Alpha Geek Freak in his Bayer Cream Jeep.

Well, that taxed me. I think I'll go lay down.
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