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Old 24th January 2011, 19:36   #1
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Default How to stop Jeep from stalling in water?

hi, guys
i have been offroading for the last 7 years, all thru 2wd Mahindra,s to gypsies, 4 wd Bolero and now a MM550. been stuck only maybe 4-5 times, out of which three times was stalling in water!!!1, how do i prevent this, ???
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Last edited by whitemm550 : 24th January 2011 at 19:42.
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Old 24th January 2011, 20:23   #2
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

will you please explain what exactly happened ? I mean from entering the water to the recovery & restart . ( in all those instances ) So we can find something similar or see a pattern .

Also are you aware of the following while crossing water

1) NOT to use the clutch , ( it slips vehicle looses momentum & stops )

2) minimum splashing of water ( going through water at a speed , that the vehicle creates a bow/tide , the vehicle pushes the tide forward with it & stays behind it ) thus preventing splashing on vital parts & saving them .

The pic you have shown is little confusing , 540 diesel doesn't stop/stall in that kind of water .

Is the vehicle the same every time & a diesel one ?

Sudarshan
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Old 24th January 2011, 22:03   #3
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

Hi Asheesh,

Long time?

The reasons are many but the primary (engine stall) apart from Sudarshan's advice are:

. If the water is deep it enters through the air intake (air filter).

. Water enters the fuel line through the over flow line, filler cap. After some running the engine stalls as the water reaches the combustion chamber. (Happened to us at the net obstacle after crossing the lake, the Mahindra guys were great help and leaned the line, filters and we were on the go again).

Tips: Drive in 2nd low, do not decelerate, maintain steady momentum.

The deepest fording I have done is in this photograph at MGE Hyd. The depth was more than 3 feet where I used the above technique to make it out in one go effortlessly.

As we go deeper the opposing force created when cutting through water this deep, is tremendous. The need for accelerating to maintain a constant speed, yet avoid unnecessary splashing is the fine balancing act.

Since a snorkel was not fitted then, we disengaged the hose from the air cleaner and tied it to the upper most level in the engine bay, prior to entering the water.

This is a good learning thread as many can benefit from failures and successes of experienced off roaders here and their inputs.
Regards,

XD3P under the hood.
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Last edited by fazalaliadil : 24th January 2011 at 22:16.
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Old 25th January 2011, 10:27   #4
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
will you please explain what exactly happened ? I mean from entering the water to the recovery & restart . ( in all those instances ) So we can find something similar or see a pattern .

Also are you aware of the following while crossing water

1) NOT to use the clutch , ( it slips vehicle looses momentum & stops )

2) minimum splashing of water ( going through water at a speed , that the vehicle creates a bow/tide , the vehicle pushes the tide forward with it & stays behind it ) thus preventing splashing on vital parts & saving them .

The pic you have shown is little confusing , 540 diesel doesn't stop/stall in that kind of water .

Is the vehicle the same every time & a diesel one ?

Sudarshan
yes, it is the same goddamn vehicle
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Old 25th January 2011, 12:04   #5
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

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Originally Posted by whitemm550 View Post
yes, it is the same goddamn vehicle
After every stall what was done to get the engine started again, this is important to pinpoint the reason?
For eg. If you needed to clean the tank, fuel line, diesel filters, then it could be water entering the tank.
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Old 25th January 2011, 12:21   #6
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

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Originally Posted by whitemm550 View Post
yes, it is the same goddamn vehicle
To diagnose the problem better- would like to know if your jeep starts immediately after getting out of water or is there a struggle involved? If yes, what does it take to get the jeep started again?

*Check for holes in your exhaust system
*Check your fuel tank cap for its water resistance
*Have you checked your cylinder compression lately? Engines with poor compression will stall due to back pressure when the exhaust is fighting the water to exit from the exhaust pipe resulting in higher exhaust manifold pressure.

Fazal bhai, your jeep photo is just awesome. How did it feel to go so deep? Was it anticipated or an unexpected incident?

Last edited by The Wolf : 25th January 2011 at 12:26.
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Old 25th January 2011, 12:50   #7
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

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Check for holes in your exhaust system
Not exactly a hole, but I have thingy in my silencer setup. Reduces silencer vibrations to a decent extent. Now, i dont think this is completely water-proof. I feel this because in whatever few water fordings I have done; (I have stalled in none, got royally stuck, yes) the moment I enter water, the exhaust gas turns the water BLACK, pitch black. And I dont think water would have entered from the muffler end coz' I keep revving hard. My guess is water is sucked thru this 'wire-mesh' and flushes out the silencer (which may be bad)...

So, is this a issue and should it be eliminated? I have'nt stalled till date.

Quote:
Have you checked your cylinder compression lately? Engines with poor compression will stall due to back pressure when the exhaust is fighting the water to exit from the exhaust pipe resulting in higher exhaust manifold pressure
Nice input to remember. But, isnt the exhaust gas pressure much more than the water pressure (when the engine is running). Your point makes sense after the vehicle has stalled & water is inside the silencer pipe completely, or atleast half. But, when entering the water body, does so much water enter the pipe in the 1st place?
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Old 25th January 2011, 13:12   #8
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Not exactly a hole, but I have thingy in my silencer setup. Reduces silencer vibrations to a decent extent. Now, i dont think this is completely water-proof. I feel this because in whatever few water fordings I have done; (I have stalled in none, got royally stuck, yes) the moment I enter water, the exhaust gas turns the water BLACK, pitch black. And I dont think water would have entered from the muffler end coz' I keep revving hard. My guess is water is sucked thru this 'wire-mesh' and flushes out the silencer (which may be bad)...

So, is this a issue and should it be eliminated? I have'nt stalled till date.
Dont understand what you mean by "thingy" bro so cant say anything!!! If the water is becoming too black, its the carbon bro...is your jeep running too rich? Whats your full throttle jab exhaust color in Bangalore when the engine is completely warmed up? Mine is just a bit grey!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Nice input to remember. But, isnt the exhaust gas pressure much more than the water pressure (when the engine is running). Your point makes sense after the vehicle has stalled & water is inside the silencer pipe completely, or atleast half. But, when entering the water body, does so much water enter the pipe in the 1st place?
Dude its not about the water entering the exhaust pipe, its about the resistance it creates to the exiting smoke. Low engine compression and a wrong gear (higher gear) will always result in stalling during fording due to excess back pressure at the manifold. As Fazal bhai mentioned below it might be essential to use 2nd low to keep the revvs high at a lower speed to ford successfully. This way the exhaust velocity at the exit point is not compromised.

Last edited by The Wolf : 25th January 2011 at 13:14.
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Old 25th January 2011, 13:15   #9
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

@santhosh: Yes you have a leak in the exhaust system. Try choking softly the pipe and see where the leak is. Attend to this first, water enters and rinses out the carbon inside the pipe and hence black residue in water. Similar thing happened in the invi's snorkel exhaust
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Old 25th January 2011, 14:06   #10
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

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Dont understand what you mean by "thingy" bro so cant say anything!!!
Hmm... must have forgoten to paste the attachment. See the wire mesh.

How to stop Jeep from stalling in water?-2.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
@santhosh: Yes you have a leak in the exhaust system. Try choking softly the pipe and see where the leak is. Attend to this first, water enters and rinses out the carbon inside the pipe and hence black residue in water. Similar thing happened in the invi's snorkel exhaust
Jaggu, i need to check the exhaust after the annual otr. I have some plans like a tractor , but do you have any doubts on this wire mesh thing?

Last edited by svsantosh : 25th January 2011 at 14:10.
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Old 25th January 2011, 14:28   #11
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Hmm... must have forgoten to paste the attachment. See the wire mesh.

Attachment 488549



Jaggu, i need to check the exhaust after the annual otr. I have some plans like a tractor , but do you have any doubts on this wire mesh thing?
LOL, dude this is a flex pipe, this is installed to reduce vibrations in the exhaust system by separating the front part from the rear. This piece considerably reduces the resonance amplitude given out at certain frequencies resulting in much lower vibrations. And you are right, if the fitment is faulty or if the install has flaws there is a possibility of water seeping in through>>cleaning the carbon from the end part of the exhaust system>>exiting with the residual carbon that had settled in the exhaust pipe. Hence resulting in darker water as mentioned.

BTW where is your skid plate?

Last edited by The Wolf : 25th January 2011 at 14:30.
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Old 25th January 2011, 14:35   #12
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

I dont think the flexi pipe (wire mesh thingie) is an issue if the installation is correct. But the fitment of the same am not sure, seems like a leak at the engine side. This flexi pipe helps to isolate the engine vibration to the silencer pipe and reduced the risk of breakage.

As i said try a choke test at idle, ensure you protect hand or other parts of the body before going near the tail pipe.
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Old 25th January 2011, 14:55   #13
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Default Re: how to stop jeep from stalling in water??

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
BTW where is your skid plate?
Pic after the very 1st day of landing in bangy, post water/oil wash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
As i said try a choke test at idle, ensure you protect hand or other parts of the body before going near the tail pipe.
I need to do this ASAP.
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Old 25th January 2011, 15:18   #14
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Default Re: How to stop Jeep from stalling in water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
As i said try a choke test at idle, ensure you protect hand or other parts of the body before going near the tail pipe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
*Check for holes in your exhaust system

*Have you checked your cylinder compression lately? Engines with poor compression will stall due to back pressure when the exhaust is fighting the water to exit from the exhaust pipe resulting in higher exhaust manifold pressure.

Fazal bhai, your jeep photo is just awesome. How did it feel to go so deep? Was it anticipated or an unexpected incident?
Jaggu,
These two pointed out by Wolf and yourself seem to be the problem it can be narrowed down to.
Wolf,
It was a planned drive through, at MGE Hyd. last year. Many other Jeeps made it and many more didn't. The guys on the shore said this one came out like a boat with least splashing.

There should be no water percolation through the 'thingie', if there is from here or anywhere in the exhaust line, there should be water in it and also carbon spots should be floating around.
Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 25th January 2011 at 15:22.
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Old 25th January 2011, 15:41   #15
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Default Re: How to stop Jeep from stalling in water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Hmm... must have forgoten to paste the attachment. See the wire mesh.
That "thingie" is called as a Flex connector or a Flexible bellow.

@Santosh, why is the connector welded there in the very first place? Do you think it is required there?

Spike
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