Advice on fitting an air-conditioner in the Mahindra Thar

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by carrot_eater

Hey Rajith - Just curious - did you get a chance to notice the drop in mileage. How much is it with AC.
I've heard and noticed the noise levels drop considerably inside the cabin once the AC is installed - Did you also notice this. I mean this is over and above the noise levels that you experience with the ability to drive with the windows rolled up.

Enjoy your Thar - And thank you for posting your experience about the AC - I am still contemplating about it.

Cheers
Carrot

Hi,
Mileage drop not noticed.
Reg noice reduction,didnt find any major reduction.

Originally Posted by Ragul

Hi Ranjith
Sorry for the OT - I am planning to add A/C to my new Gypsy in a few months time. I need feedback about We Cool - how is their workmanship? Is their execution and attention to detail good? Is there any piping or a/c related gear exposed inside cabin or is everything concealed? Do they listen to customer requirements and try to match or do they have a "this is how we do it" approach like every other shop?

Lastly how many days did they take and did you have to leave your car with them overnight? Any suspect abuse or mis-use of the car when left overnight for days?

Thanks
--Ragul

Hi,
Work man ship is good, they listen to customer,Mostly his customers are Merc & hi end cars.Left morning 9.30am & got back by 5.30pm same day. .

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Rajith - I saw the photographs. I do not understand why a hose must be looped around the brake booster. The AC pipes are not grommeted at the point where they pass through the holes drilled into sheet metal. The bracket used to mount the condenser has a lot of slots in it, giving the impression of a hurried aftermarket installation which is not good for appearance / performance / reliability. Also, this does not indicate good craftsmanship and these are the small things which separate a great job from just a normal job. These things don't get seen by an average customer, but to me, this is just not done. Please get these things corrected in your vehicle so as to differentiate it from the "normal" AC Thar CRDe vehicles. I know that your "AC - wallah" will rubbish all this but somebody's got to do it properly some time. The AC line pressure must measure between 15 and 20 bars at the condenser outlet position. You have indcated 23 psi, I presume you mean bar. This line pressure must be measured at 1500 engine rpm (not at 900 rpm) with AC blower set to maximum speed. The reading that you have given clearly indicates a need for two pusher type condenser fans. Please get them included in the system to ensure performance and reliability. 200 mm diameter fans should be adequate. This is exactly what we had done when we released the SOP in the system. Please see the photograph of customer car MH01VA9643 on post 1 of page 1 of this thread. This is the first car I did as per SOP and delivered to the customer on 15 March 2011 in Mumbai. Please note that nowadays there is a growing trend to do away with the condenser fan and ensure adequate performance through the main engine fan only. This is still in the development stage. A lot of work needs to be done in the aerodynamics area to achieve acceptable performance / reliability. Thar CRDe air deflector (front grille tunnel through which air flows onto the radiator) is not the best configuration from aerodynamics point of view but as Thar CRDe uses two condenser fans, it is not critical in present configuration.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Rajith - I saw the photographs. I do not understand why a hose must be looped around the brake booster. The AC pipes are not grommeted at the point where they pass through the holes drilled into sheet metal. The bracket used to mount the condenser has a lot of slots in it, giving the impression of a hurried aftermarket installation which is not good for appearance / performance / reliability. Also, this does not indicate good craftsmanship and these are the small things which separate a great job from just a normal job. These things don't get seen by an average customer, but to me, this is just not done. Please get these things corrected in your vehicle so as to differentiate it from the "normal" AC Thar CRDe vehicles. I know that your "AC - wallah" will rubbish all this but somebody's got to do it properly some time. The AC line pressure must measure between 15 and 20 bars at the condenser outlet position. You have indcated 23 psi, I presume you mean bar. This line pressure must be measured at 1500 engine rpm (not at 900 rpm) with AC blower set to maximum speed. The reading that you have given clearly indicates a need for two pusher type condenser fans. Please get them included in the system to ensure performance and reliability. 200 mm diameter fans should be adequate. This is exactly what we had done when we released the SOP in the system. Please see the photograph of customer car MH01VA9643 on post 1 of page 1 of this thread. This is the first car I did as per SOP and delivered to the customer on 15 March 2011 in Mumbai. Please note that nowadays there is a growing trend to do away with the condenser fan and ensure adequate performance through the main engine fan only. This is still in the development stage. A lot of work needs to be done in the aerodynamics area to achieve acceptable performance / reliability. Thar CRDe air deflector (front grille tunnel through which air flows onto the radiator) is not the best configuration from aerodynamics point of view but as Thar CRDe uses two condenser fans, it is not critical in present configuration.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

sir,
Thanks for your valuable feedback.
i will get the slotted angle bracket, gourmet & pipe line winded thru the booster corrected.I will check the line pressure as adviced by you & update back all by wednsday

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by Rajith

Hi,
Mileage drop not noticed.
Reg noice reduction,didnt find any major reduction.



Hi,
Work man ship is good, they listen to customer,Mostly his customers are Merc & hi end cars.Left morning 9.30am & got back by 5.30pm same day. .

Ranjith

Did you feel reduction in pulling power with A/C on?

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

The AC line pressure must measure between 15 and 20 bars at the condenser outlet position. You have indcated 23 psi, I presume you mean bar. This line pressure must be measured at 1500 engine rpm (not at 900 rpm) with AC blower set to maximum speed. The reading that you have given clearly indicates a need for two pusher type condenser fans.

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Behram-ji

Is this pressure reading a function of the engine characteristics/performance of the Thar or is this a universal benchmark for any vehicle? Sorry for the noob question, but I was wondering if I will need to take similar care when fitting A/C for my Gypsy.

Regards
--Ragul

[Jaggu]

@Rajith: Few pictures for TeamBHP also would be great. Have you done any partition in the front passenger area or is the AC cooling the whole vehicle? What is the size of the compressor?

[carrot_eater]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Thar CRDe air deflector (front grille tunnel through which air flows onto the radiator) is not the best configuration from aerodynamics point of view but as Thar CRDe uses two condenser fans, it is not critical in present configuration.

Would this mean that there is no requirement for additional fans to be fitted with the AC.

Also - does this mean that it is not advisable to get the insect mesh installed. That should also hamper air flow - or the effect is insignificant.

Cheers

[Rajith]

Dear behram sir,

Condenser pressure of the AC is 18bar.

Slotted clamps are universal,supplied from Mumbai.Used in after mkt fittment of TT,SUMO,AMBY,BOLERO etc at "WE COOL" since last 20 years, felt quiet thick and strong.

Pipes are from bridgestone,getting shortned from crimping supplier in Mumbai.

200mm fan available in after mkt is from REVA - AC Kit , its 24 volt.
12 volt supplier details not available..please suggest.

Seems good to avoid insect mesh for A/C THAR, with out condenser fan set up.

Jaggu Bhai,

Pics attached with AC & CFL at Rear

Excellent cooling,no drop in pick up,No idling issues when AC ON or OFF, Ride & Handling excellent with CFL.

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

@Rajith: Few pictures for TeamBHP also would be great. Have you done any partition in the front passenger area or is the AC cooling the whole vehicle? What is the size of the compressor?

No partition is done inside the vehicle.Compressor is from scorpio-170 series,Delphi condenser coil,Universal RD bottle,santen - bolero cooling coil, Bridge stone pipes,Pacific thermostat,Hyundai relay & pure R132 gas.

Cooling is fantastic and mist formation is there on rear canopy laminations due to cold..using only 1/4th of thermostat movement to keep cooling in tab.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by headers

Maybe in one year, you will get factory fitted AC and dealer fitted hard top..

LOL!

Originally Posted by Ragul

Is this pressure reading a function of the engine characteristics/performance of the Thar or is this a universal benchmark for any vehicle?l

No Ragul, they are not Thar specific. The suction and discharge pressures are determined according to the refrigerant used and the ambient conditions (temperature, humidity etc), there is a graph specifically to be used for this. Usually Ps~ 1.5 - 2.2 Bar and Pd ~ 15 - 22 Bar at 30-35 deg C is accepted as a ball park figure.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

@Rajith: Few pictures for TeamBHP also would be great.

Originally Posted by Rajith

Condenser pressure of the AC is 18bar.

It is Ok.

Originally Posted by Rajith

pure R132 gas.

I hope it is R134a and not R12, oil specifications are different for both.

Spike

[Rajith]

yes spike, Gas used 1s 100% pure R134a only

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Rajith - do I allow you to run without any condenser fan? NO! We will have to find a solution. As a worst case scenario, I recommend you use the Bolero VLX 300 mm diameter fan and move the intercooler forwards and downwards to get adequate working clearance. For one car, it is possible but it will have to be done carefully. From your comment justifying slotted brackets, I don't think your present AC fellow can handle this. Please find an alternate guy who understands and has the passion to do it properly. I need minimum 8 mm clearance between the back of the condenser and the front of the radiator.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[4x4addict]

@behram:

Will the original intercooler hose fit if the intercooler is moved forwards and downwards.

[vj_k2001]

All,

For those who want to have a look at a SOP fitted A/C or if you need to show your mechanics or external A/C fitment workshops on what has been done and how it looks.

Please feel free to contact me on +919845530451.

Regards,

Vijay

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Rajith - do I allow you to run without any condenser fan? NO! We will have to find a solution. As a worst case scenario, I recommend you use the Bolero VLX 300 mm diameter fan and move the intercooler forwards and downwards to get adequate working clearance. For one car, it is possible but it will have to be done carefully. From your comment justifying slotted brackets, I don't think your present AC fellow can handle this. Please find an alternate guy who understands and has the passion to do it properly. I need minimum 8 mm clearance between the back of the condenser and the front of the radiator.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

sir,
Thanks for valuable guidance.
noted to get non slotted angles.
Theres 8mm clearence.
Will find out 200mm , 12 volt fan asap.
Rgrds,
Rajith

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by vj_k2001

All, For those who want to have a look at a SOP fitted A/C or if you need to show your mechanics or external A/C fitment workshops on what has been done and how it looks. Please feel free to contact me on +919845530451. Regards, Vijay

Dear Vijay - start a consultancy, you'll earn a lot of goodwill. What more can I say! HaHaHa! .

Dear Rajith - please see Vijay's vehicle.

THIS IS REAL CUSTOMER-CENTRICITY. ALL YOU CUSTOMERS ARE HELPING EACH OTHER AS BRAND AMBASSADORS. HERE'S HOPING THAT "SOMEBODY WHO MATTERS" READS, REALLY UNDERSTANDS AND DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT SO FACTORY FITTED AC HAPPENS FAST! IT'S A TALL ORDER BUT I ALWAYS HOPE FOR THE BEST!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar