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Old 25th August 2012, 07:00   #106
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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Any vehicle sales brochure available in the showrooms with dealers contains some vehicle dimensions. In your opinion, which of these dimensions is the most relevant to what we are talking about?

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Ground clearance. Sumo does not have the best GC. About 185mm if I remember correctly. Distance to chassis is not so good....but, there could be a remedy.

Of course, a Sumo would challenge the Thar for roominess but another Jimny-like entry from Tata could challenge on the other vector, downsized and fuel efficient.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 25th August 2012 at 07:08.
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Old 25th August 2012, 10:39   #107
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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Ground clearance. Sumo does not have the best GC. About 185mm if I remember correctly. Distance to chassis is not so good but, there could be a remedy
Dear Ken - thanks for your reply. There can be no incorrect answers to such a question because it is the debate which is important. Please read my comment carefully, the key words are "which of these dimensions is the most relevant to what we are talking about".

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 25th August 2012, 12:35   #108
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I would say wheel base.
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Old 25th August 2012, 14:45   #109
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - thanks for your reply. There can be no incorrect answers to such a question because it is the debate which is important. Please read my comment carefully, the key words are "which of these dimensions is the most relevant to what we are talking about".

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
This thread, like most threads, meanders a bit. I don't know what you mean exactly by your question but not knowing what someone is talking about does not always stop me from expressing an opinion.

On the job I'm a lot more careful. On the job I would have asked you for an amplification and clarification. This alone can get you branded a "trouble maker and bad arse". But I can afford to live dangerously here and plow ahead.

We have a standard old joke in I.T. On the first staff meeting before we even have a general idea of what the Specs are on a new project, somebody often shouts out, "Okay then, righty-right, lets start coding!"
It brings the house down. Alpha Geek humor.

Getting a user to tell you exactly what he wants you to do is one of the hardest things in I.T. The second hardest is a year later when the brown smelly stuff has hit the electrical cooling device and you have to tell the user that, although our programs don't do what he wants them to do, nevertheless, they do exactly what he told us to do.

I have some experience with this vehicle. If it was a 4x4 I would like to see improved G.C. No major dialectical inferences are purported beyond this.
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Old 28th August 2012, 19:58   #110
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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In your opinion, which of these dimensions is the most relevant to what we are talking about?
Not a straight answer to pick out any single dimension, but ... can we have a lower CG, please ?


But if I were to answer DB sir's question more directly, the dimensions I would pick (in priority) are:
1. WB: increase by 100mm. Gives a balance towards better stability & not adversely affect maneuverability much.

2. Weight: 1800 kg kerb (for the Victa TCIC GX) is high. A Scorp manages it in a little more. The 1600 kg (approx) of the Sierra was a good value.
- or increase the power !!

3. GC: is not on top of my list because the 4x4 version already has better clearance than the 4x2's. But it will be good to have more clearance for the 4x2 also. For me, better GC is a good to have feature.

I have no complaints with the length / width / track etc. But a combination of 1 & 2 above will make a difference in the way this truck behaves.
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Old 28th August 2012, 20:44   #111
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

Do anything but stay close to a CJ like BOA/App-Dep Angles.
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Old 28th August 2012, 21:03   #112
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

OT: can I convert my TCIC 4x2 into a 4x4 ?
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Old 28th August 2012, 21:10   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor
OT: can I convert my TCIC 4x2 into a 4x4 ?
Can? Yes. Should? No.

Last edited by AVR : 28th August 2012 at 21:11.
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Old 28th August 2012, 22:52   #114
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

The Army Sumo 4X4 benefits from bigger wheels, higher GC than their civilian counterparts.

Coming to dimensions, Sumo's Wheelbase is already shorter than Thar's,

Sumo - 2425mm
Thar - 2430mm

The rear overhang can be reduced and with it, will go, the necessity for the raised roof, thus lowering CoG.

But then, I guess the Thar man could have joined the other company that takes inspiration from the other legend, the G-Wagen and coaxed them to offer their version of the "G" with the OM611 engine they have fitted on something called ForceOne.
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Old 29th August 2012, 07:48   #115
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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But then, I guess the Thar man could have joined the other company that takes inspiration from the other legend, the G-Wagen and coaxed them to offer their version of the "G" with the OM611 engine they have fitted on something called ForceOne.
, well the Bolero and Sumo both are inspired from THE Wagen.
Even then Force won't have the expertise and product launches o maybe Tata motors., but still look forwards to the next gen Trax.
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Old 29th August 2012, 11:08   #116
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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, well the Bolero and Sumo both are inspired from THE Wagen.
Even then Force won't have the expertise and product launches o maybe Tata motors., but still look forwards to the next gen Trax.
Agreed, but, you will also agree the level of inspiration is different in the case of the Trax/gurkha platform, which is derived from the G.
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Old 31st August 2012, 09:22   #117
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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Coming to dimensions, Sumo's Wheelbase is already shorter than Thar's, Sumo - 2425mm Thar - 2430mm. The rear overhang can be reduced and with it, will go, the necessity for the raised roof, thus lowering CoG.
Dear Anirban / Chandras - your answer is correct. Can you now build your comments around this dimension? By the way, Sumo 4WD wheelbase is 2435 mm.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 31st August 2012, 10:26   #118
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

I'm here in Manali (HP) - I saw an otherwise normal-looking Sumo 4x4 taxi here a few years back (with the telltale 4x4 hubs up front), and I've been told by dubious sources that even the Spacio can be special-ordered with it now, though probably not by anyone who's actually done it. I think the above is the only non-government one I ever saw. BRO (Border Roads Organization) has one here in regular service with a local HP58 registration, white with the 207-style fender flares. Army ambulances pass through from time to time and they might even keep one in the camp up at Palchan. But they are extremely rare overall and must be a complete nightmare when it comes to sourcing spares. Perhaps even more importantly considering the thrust of this forum, a recently retired IA Brigadier-General I know says the Army Sumo 4x4's struggle a lot with climbing. That is no surprise if they're using the Victa turbo engine, which has no low-end torque whatsoever and in my personal experience has proven an immense pain to drive in the hills (though once you get up around 2500rpm and beyond the turbo lag, it's lively enough). Seems like a case of a turbo unit that is mis-sized / mis-specified for the given engine. The Sumo platform is okay... millions of taxi-wallah's can't be too wrong. Kind of rattley bodies and front suspensions can and do bend / break. Biggest trouble is that Tata knows they can keep selling millions of these soul-less vehicles regardless of whether they really upgrade it or develop it properly or not.
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Old 31st August 2012, 10:33   #119
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

Dear Sir,

I am complete novice when it comes to all this, still I think the wheel base determines or has an impact on the amount of GC needed and therefore affects the COG of the vehicle. Hence I thought this is more important.
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Old 31st August 2012, 11:51   #120
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Default Re: Tata Sumo four-wheel-drive

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Anirban / Chandras - your answer is correct. Can you now build your comments around this dimension? By the way, Sumo 4WD wheelbase is 2435 mm.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Okay, for a start, the shorter the wheelbase, the better the breakover angle will be.

In the Sumo's case its already almost at Thar level. But then, I am not sure of the height the lowest object between the wheels (assuming that would be anyway higher than the GC).

But what the Sumo (or other Tata UV's) is plagued with are bad front and rear overhang. Something that can only be tackled by raising the body or bigger wheels (as in Spacio or the Army spec Sumo 4x4)

Last edited by 1100D : 31st August 2012 at 11:53.
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