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Old 16th August 2011, 21:19   #181
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

well, I am ready to buy the Pajero, but my dad hasn't yet moved on from the prospect of the Montero.

Since we're being so thorough, might as well go all the way.

Though I understand that you've had enough of me and think its time for me to shut up and get it over with
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Old 16th August 2011, 21:23   #182
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
guys, I am sorry to ask this a second time, but I really need the specs on the 2007 Montero. I can't verify if its the common rail from the 2008 montero or if its a more primitive engine, closer to the pajero's.

I have had both answers in this very thread, I get both answers in all the googling I do. and I've not had any clear answers on this forum searches either.

This link is a review dated feb 2007 in Business Standard Motoring. I have no clue as to how accurate the information contained in this review is. Hope that helps.
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Old 16th August 2011, 21:38   #183
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

thanks very much for that. I am surprised because when I put in "Montero" on the BSM website, I don't get that page.

EDIT: huh. Now I do. wierd. Its a conspiracy, I tell ya. they're trying to make me look stoopid!

Last edited by Harbir : 16th August 2011 at 21:46.
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Old 16th August 2011, 22:17   #184
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Originally Posted by Harbir
guys, I am sorry to ask this a second time, but I really need the specs on the 2007 Montero. I can't verify if its the common rail from the 2008 montero or if its a more primitive engine, closer to the pajero's.

I have had both answers in this very thread, I get both answers in all the googling I do. and I've not had any clear answers on this forum searches either.
The 2007 Montero has a 3.2l DI engine with 167bhp, the same as the CR engine and just about as noisy!!! However the CR engine is a wee bit more fuel efficient. The + side is that the 2007 has a stiffer set up and handles far better than the 2008 Montero. It is also quicker with 0-100 coming up in about 12 seconds.
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Old 16th August 2011, 23:13   #185
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

see, thats my confusion. i've under the impression that all diesel engines are direct injection. it is the petrols that are new to this. diesel engines have injectors sitting where the spark plug on a petrol would be. The innovation was supposed to common rail injection with very very high pressures that promote very fine atomization, and therefore much finer metering of the fuel, which in turn allows much more controlled combustion, which allows a substantial degree on control on the characteristic diesel "clatter" as well as increased efficiency and horsepower.

If the 2008 gained common rail technology while not becoming substantially more refined (or efficient or powerful) I would have to wonder why they bothered.

at this point, if that 2007 montero I am investigating checks out and we can agree on a price, thats likely what we will buy.

The only thing making me hesitate is the lack of an ARB roof rack for that generation Pajero/Montero, which I rather had my heart set on for carrying an extra spare tyre or two, jerry cans of fuel, shovel, snow chains, high lift jack etc.
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Old 16th August 2011, 23:23   #186
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

The new Montero has the same engine as the 2008, with the power upped to 200bhp. All these engines are various incarnations of the 3.2DID engine or the 4M41 engine.
The roof ski rack and side supports are available from Thule.

Last edited by jyobeb : 16th August 2011 at 23:32.
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Old 17th August 2011, 13:59   #187
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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If the 2008 gained common rail technology while not becoming substantially more refined (or efficient or powerful) I would have to wonder why they bothered.
Production costs
Pollution control

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
...
The only thing making me hesitate is the lack of an ARB roof rack for that generation Pajero/Montero, which I rather had my heart set on for carrying an extra spare tyre or two, jerry cans of fuel, shovel, snow chains, high lift jack etc.
You can have a dandy one made especially tailored to your specs for not too much money. You need to find the structural strong points of the roof for contact points. Some bolting would be ideal otherwise you are likely to get some rear to front movement of the rack over time from heavy braking. Merely clamping it to your roof rain troughs is asking for trouble. Your biggest problem will be how to optimally fasten it. It will be prone to rust so you will have to paint the hell out of it, too.

Once you are assured that you can even safely carry heavy stuff up there, you may want to give some thought about how you are going to get fuel and tyres up and down from there. It ain't always easy.....so, small ladder?, steps? etc.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 17th August 2011 at 14:02.
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Old 17th August 2011, 17:20   #188
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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you may want to give some thought about how you are going to get fuel and tyres up and down from there. It ain't always easy.....so, small ladder?, steps? etc.
no problem there. Folding Ladder for Rhino-Rack Alloy Trays and Wire Mesh Baskets - 6' Long - 265 lbs Rhino Rack Accessories and Parts RRRFL

the challenge is that the 2007 montero has rack systems only if fitted from the factory with rails. Not sure what the solution for the one without factory rails would be.
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Old 18th August 2011, 09:28   #189
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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the challenge is that the 2007 montero has rack systems only if fitted from the factory with rails. Not sure what the solution for the one without factory rails would be.
As I have stated before, Thule has a kit.
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Old 18th August 2011, 12:47   #190
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

I just test drove a 2007 Montero GLS with 53,700km, manual transmission.

I liked it a lot. It is in good shape, apart from minor scratches that actually assure me that its not seen worse. The interior was nearly new save for some very minor scuffing on the passenger seat and the cargo door's lock (the thing at the bottom designed to keep the door from closing by itself) has some grittiness in the action that is felt when opening and closing the door. The tires don't have much life left though they have safe tread depth.

I like the interior much better than the 2008 Montero, mostly because the gauge cluster in the 2008 looks down market and cheesy while the 2007's is classic 1990s japanese style (not the most modern, but very satisfactory). The thick wood and leather rim of the steering wheel feels wonderful to hold, much better than that of the 2008.

on the move, the 2008 clearly has a nicer plusher more smothered, better snubbed ride, with better isolation from road irregularities. the 2007 is light years ahead of the Pajero and the Fortuner, but ever so slightly crude compared to the 2008 as you can feel it thump and bang over road imperfections in a way you cannot with the 2008.

apart from that, the news is all in the 2007's favor. The 2008's engine is a bit creamier but over all the refinement and noise levels are comparable. the 2008 has more torque in the bottom end of the rev range, and crisper throttle response, and a more linear response so it feels swift and effortless and compared to that the 2007 initially feels sluggish. but you very quickly realize that it is looking for more throttle and revs, and if you give it that, its actually very quick, quicker than the 2008 by a significant amount. its definitely a much faster vehicle than the 2008.

It also steers and handles better than the 2008, with a very crisp and responsive front end. In fact, its so easy to hustle, that one initially doesn't realize that just because it can be hustled doesn't mean that it has car like low weight and car like firm suspension.

I didn't drive it off road, but it does feel like the pajero would be better off road and on bad roads. the Pajero is narrower, allows a much better few of the road surface close up the vehicle (for seeing what you're driving over), it feels like it would crawl better in really bad conditions over rocks and through stream, it would be less fragile in rough use (as the pajero is a ladder frame and body construction, as opposed to the Montero's monocoque), and would be easier to drive and more comfortable off road, meaning a lot less stress and a lot more ease in off road conditions.

The rear seat remains an issue. Its not offset like the one in the Pajero, but since its sized to flip down and fold over to allow access to the last row of seats, the seat's shape and dimensions don't promote comfort for a 6'2" 100kg adult male. but my buddy who was with me, who is a more typical Indian male size said he was very comfortable. I would prefer to sit in the front seat for anything more than about 20 minutes. but even so, I'd say its a wash between montero, pajero, and fortuner, because they all have second row seats that I wouldn't want to occupy for very long. I guess, thats a point we'll just have to accept.

So in summary here are the three vehicles I am considering now:

1. 25,000km 2007 Montero, asking 22L.
PROs - Its a low KM version of the vehicle best suited to our needs, and like new (so the seller guarantees or he'll pay my travel fare he says).
CONs - Its in bangalore so there will be an expense involved in going to see it
There will be hassles and possibly considerable expense in getting it registered in chandigarh.
No warranty, and parts supply may be a problem

2. 54,000km 2007 Montero, asking 19L
PROs- Fine condition vehicle,
Best condition used pajero I have seen so far by a large margin
Less expensive than a new Pajero after all costs are taken into account.
Delhi registered (can you change ownership on the papers without reregistering a vehicle)
CONs - 54,000km means that tyres will need replacing soon, shock absorbers will need to be replaced in the not too distant future if we want it to ride and handle like a new car
-its been driven twice as much as the other Montero. its got that much less life left in it before it starts feeling old and tired
-as with the other Montero, no warranty and parts supply may be a problem

3. New 2011 Pajero
PROs - New car, with new car warranty, perfect cosmetic and mechanical condition, no hidden faults and accidents.
Easily available and relatively inexpensive parts
Best and most comfortable in off road conditions. this is not a trivial point. for a vehicle thats going to take a pounding, low stress, high comfort level, mechanical durability and cheaper, more easily available spares is a big deal
Most fun to drive.
CONs - Dated design, inside and out with dated ergonomics
-not as spacious and comfortable for the driver in terms driving position, layout of the controls relative to the driver, etc. Definitely old school, definitely not a luxury car
- Weak engine in on road conditions.

On the whole I think you can't go wrong with either. WIth one you get a luxury car thats very off road capable, but its not new and not locally built so you deal with the consequence. THe other is new, quite usable and even fun in onroad conditions, but what it gives up in being a luxury car, it makes up in being best and most fun off road.

Now its time to make a decision and make the purchase.

______________

I wonder if the local mitsubishi dealer can be asked to do an inspection for me that will be fair and not made with an eye towards a reliable or potential customer (current owner)

Last edited by Harbir : 18th August 2011 at 13:01.
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Old 19th August 2011, 17:32   #191
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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It also steers and handles better than the 2008, with a very crisp and responsive front end. In fact, its so easy to hustle, that one initially doesn't realize that just because it can be hustled doesn't mean that it has car like low weight and car like firm suspension.
that's interesting. The newer one with more power is slower than the older one?

The ride quality is probably down to the worn shocks/tires and then there's perception factor due to the noisy non-CR engine.
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Old 19th August 2011, 18:33   #192
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

Harbir, let me admit to the fact that I have been foliowing your analysis of the various Monteros etc. with great interest, since my brother had been looking for a similar vehicle too, albeit not for the kind of heavy-duty off-roading that you plan to do.

Today, we finalized the deal on a late-2006 first-owner VW Touareg 3.0V6 TDI in pristine condition, with 55k km on the clock. And it certainly is a much, much sweeter car to drive than any Montero - quieter, more behaved, and the Tiptronic is such a pleasure to toy around with. Had a full scan done, no errors & faults, underbody, brakes, tyres all in good condition, serviced 4k km ago, overall the car AND the deal feels really good!

You might want to consider a Touareg - there was another good example where this one came from.
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Old 19th August 2011, 20:41   #193
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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that's interesting. The newer one with more power is slower than the older one?

The ride quality is probably down to the worn shocks/tires and then there's perception factor due to the noisy non-CR engine.

I am told that the 2008 doesn't make more power than the 2007. I keep seeing 165, 167.5 and 170 as power figures for both. and folks here have said that the 2007 is lighter than the 2008.

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Harbir, let me admit to the fact that I have been foliowing your analysis of the various Monteros etc. with great interest, since my brother had been looking for a similar vehicle too, albeit not for the kind of heavy-duty off-roading that you plan to do.


You might want to consider a Touareg - there was another good example where this one came from.
Thank you and I appreciate your interest!

How much are they asking for the other Touareg?
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Old 19th August 2011, 21:02   #194
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Thank you and I appreciate your interest!

How much are they asking for the other Touareg?
Another option is the Volvo XC90 D5, thanks to the brand perception they don't really have good resale values, so you might find a good one going cheap.
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Old 19th August 2011, 21:15   #195
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Thank you and I appreciate your interest!
How much are they asking for the other Touareg?
25L, negotiable. Good vehicle too, except for 3rd owner on the RC card.
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Another option is the Volvo XC90 D5...
Soft-roader, with no 4L transfer case.
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