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Old 9th August 2011, 20:15   #106
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

Dear Harbir

I read almost all of your threads since you started this debate on Pajero - having driven both the cars - Pajero & Fortuner for over 40 T Km - I can vouch for Pajero's strengths , I hope none of other owners have any bad experiences either . I sold mine last year after few incidents with local dealers but repent the decision till date . This Year I did almost the same circuit to Leh in Fortuner that I did in Pajero 2Years back - Yes Fortuner took us everywhere but there was much difference in the way Pajero did - I still remember the lead I used to built in group driving pajero sometimes as large as 2 Hours on way to Leh / Padum . I think Pajero pulls much better on high altitudes than Fortuner despite having smaller engine .

I understand you have concerns about rear seats on Pajero which are correct to an extent - did you explored idea of finding 2 Innova Captain seats from Toyota and fitting these in pajero ? I think its possible - you can find good condition seats from Burail market in sector 45 at reasonable costs .

BTW did you test drove the new Monetro ? if you want to buy older one you can have a kind of comparison after driving new one . I am also looking to buy a Monetro and your Test drive will be good for me as well other members

Last edited by Turbanator : 9th August 2011 at 20:17.
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Old 9th August 2011, 20:49   #107
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

Thank you. I did drive a spanking new montero: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2458725 (New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?)

but I decided that the manual monteros suit me, which are no longer available, and the automatics do not.
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Old 9th August 2011, 21:00   #108
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

Quote:
I did drive a spanking new montero
oh - i read this but by context of your thread i thought its a newer version ( not a brand new ) but surprisingly this review is very small -as compared to your other ones ! where did you drove this ? Are the dealers offering any Discounts on Monetro . Are you very sure on the Gear Box issues ? isn't the Automatic a Six Speed one ? How much your test Drive car had run in .

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Old 9th August 2011, 21:41   #109
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

the car I drove had 9km on it. the transmission is 5 speed. There are no discounts. I wouldn't say that there are gearbox issues, because that implies a design or manufacturing fault and I don't mean to convey that. But the manual and automatic monteros do feel very different and I think its down to the montero's great mass, the characteristics of a turbo engine, torque converter windup, and the transmission not reading your mind on what gear would correspond with your expectations at every moment.

I said the following on another forum:

" montero I drove proved deeply underwhelming. They were big, ponderous, clumsy, sloppy. From new to old, all three felt like I was driving a house. The 4th I drove was a manual, used, and it was just brilliant. Still big, but not ponderous, clumsy or sloppy at all. It was pretty spectacular, very responsive, very alert, very snappy, and very quick. I think the automatic looses far too much from the box not being in exactly the gear that you need, that your brain instinctively knows and puts the manual in, but the auto doesn't, and from torque converter windup. The automatic montero had been ejected from consideration"

the new Montero from a steering and engine point of view is indeed very fine. I just found it cumbersome, lethargic in traffic. and I am pretty sure its because of the transmission.

I don't know what more to tell you.

the manual montero is at the top of my list. the automatic monteros are off the list. I suggest you take a test drive yourself and see how you feel. I must say that the automatic endeavour does not feel as uncooperative as the automatic montero
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Old 10th August 2011, 01:43   #110
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
18 years of american way of life and now in india.

choices are difficult when it comes to buy the best out of the 3 4WDs mentioned in your thread.
you mean that my way of looking at things and making choices make no sense in the Indian context

Quote:
good luck Harbir Sahib.
thank you sir.
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Old 10th August 2011, 06:11   #111
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

I'd say get a Pajero and modify it up for more power and torque

I put on a K&N air filter and increased the Max boost pressure of the turbo. you get about +10 hp and about +20nm Torque for around RS. 11,000. Or a Pete's tuning box would be even better if that engine can accept it.
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Old 10th August 2011, 09:26   #112
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
the manual montero is at the top of my list. the automatic monteros are off the list. I suggest you take a test drive yourself and see how you feel. I must say that the automatic endeavour does not feel as uncooperative as the automatic montero
Been there, did that and I have been driving manual Montero for 2 happy years now! I think you are making the right choice!
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Old 10th August 2011, 10:31   #113
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Endeavour333 View Post
I'd say get a Pajero and modify it up for more power and torque

I put on a K&N air filter and increased the Max boost pressure of the turbo. you get about +10 hp and about +20nm Torque for around RS. 11,000. Or a Pete's tuning box would be even better if that engine can accept it.


Pete's does not have a tuning box for the Pajero, remember it does not run an ECU. about increase in Bhp & Torque, did you do a dyno run or was it the seat of the pants feel or the guy who did it - dished out those numbers ? Curious as I would not mind that route if it is reliable.

Was the feel hugely different or hard to tell ?





Cheers
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Old 10th August 2011, 10:55   #114
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
Pete's does not have a tuning box for the Pajero, remember it does not run an ECU. about increase in Bhp & Torque, did you do a dyno run or was it the seat of the pants feel or the guy who did it - dished out those numbers ? Curious as I would not mind that route if it is reliable.

Was the feel hugely different or hard to tell ?

Cheers
He actually said that I would get approximately a 10-13 bhp increase but most of the performance increase would be felt at low end torque. So I conservatively estimated a 10bhp and 20 nm torque increase. It definitely feels faster though. Especially at the low end. Feels just so much more explosive in traffic now. My friend got into my car yesterday and immediately noticed the difference. Well worth it. He charged 5,000 for the Turbo and charged MRP for the air filter which was ~6,200. So quite a cheap way to get a lot more pulling force i'd say.

The estimates Raghav at IgNite gave me was before he installed the mods. After the mods were done he said that the Endeavour responded very well to the increased turbo pressure so the gains might be even more. You should definitely try this out. He also said that there was an Apollo air intake available but if I plan to take my car off road in water it would be a bad idea because since the intake is exposed at the bottom of the car there would be a risk of water getting sucked into the engine. Your choice really.

Good luck!
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Old 10th August 2011, 16:38   #115
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endeavour333 View Post
He actually said that I would get approximately a 10-13 bhp increase but most of the performance increase would be felt at low end torque. So I conservatively estimated a 10bhp and 20 nm torque increase. It definitely feels faster though. Especially at the low end. Feels just so much more explosive in traffic now. My friend got into my car yesterday and immediately noticed the difference. Well worth it. He charged 5,000 for the Turbo and charged MRP for the air filter which was ~6,200. So quite a cheap way to get a lot more pulling force i'd say.

The estimates Raghav at IgNite gave me was before he installed the mods. After the mods were done he said that the Endeavour responded very well to the increased turbo pressure so the gains might be even more. You should definitely try this out. He also said that there was an Apollo air intake available but if I plan to take my car off road in water it would be a bad idea because since the intake is exposed at the bottom of the car there would be a risk of water getting sucked into the engine. Your choice really.

Good luck!


Honestly I think the Pajero already has a lot of torque as is !! I would only be interested if the acceleration was faster or the top end speed increases.

Thanks anyways





Cheers
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Old 11th August 2011, 08:18   #116
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

the search for mint condition low mileage manual transmission monteros isn't going well. the one with 32,000km what was listed earlier has been sold. the one in the classifieds with 43,000 has been sold. the one with 48000 miles that I drove wasn't in satisfactory condition. THe one in Chandigarh I had a line on turns out to have 110,000kms on it.

I am not yet ready to give on finding a good montero but I have exhausted the classifieds. the question is now whether I just keep looking till new ones turn up or whether I advise my dad to buy a pajero
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Old 11th August 2011, 08:25   #117
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
I am not yet ready to give on finding a good montero but I have exhausted the classifieds. the question is now whether I just keep looking till new ones turn up or whether I advise my dad to buy a pajero
If you are not in a terrible hurry to buy one, I say give it another 2 months. People change their cars during Ganesh Chaturthi/Navratri and lot more cars come to the used car market. Unless ofcourse you wants the car now in which case Pajero is the way to go!
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Old 11th August 2011, 08:41   #118
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

thats a good point.

Also, I have the option of going south. there are 4 cars in bangalore and 1 in bombay and I could make a tour to go look at those cars.

Maybe I could request TBHP members who are local to the vehicles to preliminarily check them out on my behalf and any that are are good on preliminary inspection, I can then fly down to take a personal look at.

Last edited by Harbir : 11th August 2011 at 08:55.
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Old 11th August 2011, 09:54   #119
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
the search for mint condition low mileage manual transmission monteros isn't going well. the one with 32,000km what was listed earlier has been sold. the one in the classifieds with 43,000 has been sold. the one with 48000 miles that I drove wasn't in satisfactory condition. THe one in Chandigarh I had a line on turns out to have 110,000kms on it.

I am not yet ready to give on finding a good montero but I have exhausted the classifieds. the question is now whether I just keep looking till new ones turn up or whether I advise my dad to buy a pajero

Since you are willing to allow yourself time to get your hands on a MT Montero that you will find satisfactory, can you also add to the list of contenders and consider a Pajero Sport that is supposed to be launched in the near future. How near the near future is , that would need to be ascertained ofcourse. To undertake that exercise you would need to consider whether the new Pajero suits your requirements and is worth the extra price that will in all likelihood be asked for it.

Edit: Since you mention that you will be looking at Bangalore based specimens of the Montero you are aware that due to to the higher road tax paid upfront in Bangalore, prices over there will be higher than the ones prevailing in our home turf i.e. up north?

Last edited by RS_DEL : 11th August 2011 at 09:56.
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Old 11th August 2011, 10:05   #120
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Default Re: New Fortuner / Pajero versus Used '08 Montero. Which would you pick?

1. I am not entirely excited about the pajero sport apart from the prospect that it will drive down Pajero prices (unless it just kills the Pajero entirely). THis is because I have not been impressed now or in the past by pick up truck based utility vehicles, which include the fortuner and the Endeavor, unless the underlying pick up truck was especially superb (which has happened for me only with the Chevrolet Silverado and its ute variant the Chevy Suburban). I have now and in the past found that pick up truck based utes are off road capable but are essentially designed for on road load hauling and it shows in how they drive both on and off the road. I have not driven the lastest variant of the pajero sport/montero sport, but I don't expect it to match the montero is road excellence, nor the pajero in off road excellence.

2. I didn't know that road taxes in the south are high, but the asking prices for monteros are comparable to or slightly lower than what I have seen in delhi. At any rate, if my choice is a used vehicle in bangalore thats got a higher price because of the road tax that was paid 3 years ago, and a non-existent vehicle in delhi, its not a real choice is it?

of course I am not running to bangalore to buy a truck just yet. given that only one of the 4 monteros I've seen in the north were in good shape, I am hesitant to go see the vehicles unless I am assured that they are atleast worth looking at.

lets see.

I will probably just end up waiting

Last edited by Harbir : 11th August 2011 at 10:11.
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