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Old 7th November 2011, 17:21   #91
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

Hahahaha! Thanks a bunch 4x4addict!

You are always welcome to come visit us here in Bangalore and take a look at it in person and give us your thoughts. Like I said, if we get enough out there, then would be ok to change the mould. Wont need a financial injection from anyone!

If you look at the length of the current side window and the length of the fibreglass, you will notice that there is not a lot of space even now between the ends of the glass and the ends of the fibre top. Dont know if there will be enough space for the longer window to fit. Will need the dimensions of the glass first to validate that.

This is why I love tbhp - dont think i would have got an offer of financial help on any other forum (whether joking or not).

Look forward to more input from you.

Regards,
Manas


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@manas

Once the AC version of the Thar is out, I will chip in financially to change the mould .
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Old 7th November 2011, 18:59   #92
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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@manas

Once the AC version of the Thar is out, I will chip in financially to change the mould .
LOL Tini, I can see a queue AFAIK..and the BIG boss is in line too..

OT:
We should be able to convert front to solid axle, - Then we can have best of both worlds..and maybe limit speeds and slalom to under 100 kph!!
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Old 8th November 2011, 10:41   #93
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@manasm

This HT looks incredible. I can see a lot of sweat gone into this. You had earlier mentioned that you'd be putting up the quote for HT. Eagerly waiting for it!

I did about 135 on the test drive vehicle about a month ago! It wasn't the most safest thing to do considering the body-roll and the wheels seemed to sway on a perfectly flat road. And remember, I was on stock HT tyres. So I agree with you on this one.

There is another bit I'd like to get confirmation on. I test drove 3 Thars before I went ahead with the booking. In all the 3, I noticed that the meter console had 4L and 4H indicators that don't work when you engage them in that configuration. When enquired, I was told that this is non-existent in the Thar. I also had this confirmed with Nitin (nitin_80). There is also a door-ajar warning indicator as well, which is dysfunctional. Is there anyway, we could at least get the 4L and 4H indicator working? I know this metre console is a borrow from Bolero!
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Old 8th November 2011, 15:48   #94
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@manasm

This HT looks incredible. I can see a lot of sweat gone into this. You had earlier mentioned that you'd be putting up the quote for HT. Eagerly waiting for it!

I did about 135 on the test drive vehicle about a month ago! It wasn't the most safest thing to do considering the body-roll and the wheels seemed to sway on a perfectly flat road. And remember, I was on stock HT tyres. So I agree with you on this one.

There is another bit I'd like to get confirmation on. I test drove 3 Thars before I went ahead with the booking. In all the 3, I noticed that the meter console had 4L and 4H indicators that don't work when you engage them in that configuration. When enquired, I was told that this is non-existent in the Thar. I also had this confirmed with Nitin (nitin_80). There is also a door-ajar warning indicator as well, which is dysfunctional. Is there anyway, we could at least get the 4L and 4H indicator working? I know this metre console is a borrow from Bolero!
When I told the Mahindra NBS workshop guys about the 4wd indicator issue, they told me that its non functional (just for display purpose). I remember reading about the same complaint with a couple of other thar owners as well.
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Old 8th November 2011, 16:05   #95
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...@Nitin_80 - have the parts, but not installed...working on the top and console first....

@manas, so have you proccured 2 of the double folding innova seats or some other ones?. If yes, you might have had to make some changes to fit the single seat on the RHS right, since it folds to the left side. Sorry for so many "seat" questions but was planning to search for them this weekend, so wanted to be sure that I dont miss out on anything important to be considered before I buy them. (cutting, drilling, adjustments etc).
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Old 9th November 2011, 10:23   #96
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Originally Posted by Trueintrepid View Post
I noticed that the meter console had 4L and 4H indicators that don't work when you engage them in that configuration. When enquired, I was told that this is non-existent in the Thar. There is also a door-ajar warning indicator as well, which is dysfunctional. Is there anyway, we could at least get the 4L and 4H indicator working? I know this metre console is a borrow from Bolero!
Dear Trueintrepid - the instrument cluster is a direct borrow from the Europe Export Bolero Double Cab 4WD LHD vehicle (actually the whole Thar CRDe domestic 4WD RHD is a derivative of this vehicle. ). Part number is same in the BOM (Bill of Material) of both vehicles. The Thar CRDe "platform" (as we call it in engineering terms) has manually operated transfer case (lever on the floor) whereas the Europe Export Blero Double Cab 4WD LHD has electronically operated transfer case (switch on the instrument panel). You will appreciate that for a "telltale" light to work, there must be some wiring harness / bracket / switch which will make or break a contact when 4WD is engaged or disengaged. This system is not existing for manually operated 4WD with Borg Warner Transfer Case which Thar CRDe uses because it has never been designed. This system is existing for electronically operated 4WD with Borg Warner Transfer Case which Europe Export Bolero Double Cab 4WD LHD is using. The system is existing in this case, because the Borg Warner is essentially an electronically operated transfer case so control can be taken through the ECU. Please note that in case of Thar CRDe domestic 4WD RHD, all customers without exception overwhelmingly wanted lever operated transfer case only in order to keep things simple, ensure cast iron reliability. I also wanted the lever for the same reasons and I also wanted 2 gear levers sticking out of the floor which made the vehicle more "Jeeplike". Just for information, Europe Export Thar CRDe (not Double Cab) 4WD LHD also has lever operated transfer case where the telltales are not connected. You may correctly argue that M&M should have developed a separate instrument cluster without these telltales, yes, in principle it can be done but it was a conscious call to use the common part because when the telltale is OFF, it is supposed to turn completely black and not seen. This saved cost and helped us in standardization of aggregates. Please note that any cost is eventually passed on to the customer as part of base price. I hope this clarifies in totality. After reading above, you can only smile at the "standard" reply you recieved, isn't it?

69% of Thar CRDe BOM is common with other models. It is no great secret, you open the bonnets of Scorpio NEF / Bolero VLX, look inside for 5 minutes and you will come to the same conclusion.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2011, 11:04   #97
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Trueintrepid - the instrument cluster is a direct borrow from the Europe Export Bolero Double Cab 4WD LHD vehicle (actually the whole Thar CRDe domestic 4WD RHD is a derivative of this vehicle. ). Part number is same in the BOM (Bill of Material) of both vehicles. The Thar CRDe "platform" (as we call it in engineering terms) has manually operated transfer case (lever on the floor) whereas the Europe Export Blero Double Cab 4WD LHD has electronically operated transfer case (switch on the instrument panel). You will appreciate that for a "telltale" light to work, there must be some wiring harness / bracket / switch which will make or break a contact when 4WD is engaged or disengaged. This system is not existing for manually operated 4WD with Borg Warner Transfer Case which Thar CRDe uses because it has never been designed. This system is existing for electronically operated 4WD with Borg Warner Transfer Case which Europe Export Bolero Double Cab 4WD LHD is using. The system is existing in this case, because the Borg Warner is essentially an electronically operated transfer case so control can be taken through the ECU. Please note that in case of Thar CRDe domestic 4WD RHD, all customers without exception overwhelmingly wanted lever operated transfer case only in order to keep things simple, ensure cast iron reliability. I also wanted the lever for the same reasons and I also wanted 2 gear levers sticking out of the floor which made the vehicle more "Jeeplike". Just for information, Europe Export Thar CRDe (not Double Cab) 4WD LHD also has lever operated transfer case where the telltales are not connected. You may correctly argue that M&M should have developed a separate instrument cluster without these telltales, yes, in principle it can be done but it was a conscious call to use the common part because when the telltale is OFF, it is supposed to turn completely black and not seen. This saved cost and helped us in standardization of aggregates. Please note that any cost is eventually passed on to the customer as part of base price. I hope this clarifies in totality. After reading above, you can only smile at the "standard" reply you recieved, isn't it?

69% of Thar CRDe BOM is common with other models. It is no great secret, you open the bonnets of Scorpio NEF / Bolero VLX, look inside for 5 minutes and you will come to the same conclusion.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar


Thank you for throwing some light, Mr. Dhabhar! This clarifies my doubts loud and clear.

Now that I have a great response from you, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask you about running-in the new Thar. My concern is that I am scheduled to receive the delivery of the vehicle sometime around 22nd November and I intend to make a road trip to Shillong around the 12th of December, all the way from Bombay, clocking in something like 6000km, to and fro.

My questions to you is:

1. I will manage to cover the first 1000km, commuting within the city between my office and home by 12th December, but is it a good idea to take the Thar or rather subject it to a grueling journey so early in its life cycle, thereafter?

2. What should be my average speed during this trip? Can I do speeds like 100 and 120, considering that the engine is still fairly new?

3. I shouldn't be cornering you with this question, but what would your recommendations be for good all-terrain tyres for the Thar?

Thank you.
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Old 9th November 2011, 11:37   #98
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Originally Posted by Trueintrepid View Post
Now that I have a great response from you, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask you about running-in the new Thar. My concern is that I am scheduled to receive the delivery of the vehicle sometime around 22nd November and I intend to make a road trip to Shillong around the 12th of December, all the way from Bombay, clocking in something like 6000km, to and fro.

My questions to you is:

1. I will manage to cover the first 1000km, commuting within the city between my office and home by 12th December, but is it a good idea to take the Thar or rather subject it to a grueling journey so early in its life cycle, thereafter?

2. What should be my average speed during this trip? Can I do speeds like 100 and 120, considering that the engine is still fairly new?

3. I shouldn't be cornering you with this question, but what would your recommendations be for good all-terrain tyres for the Thar?

Thank you.
Dear Trueintrepid - you can take delivery of the vehicle and on the same day you can drive for 1000 kms, no issue. Just be a little careful not to exceed 3000 rpm for the first 1000 odd kms or so. The days of "running-in" as understood in the good old days are over. The product must perform as soon as it leaves the showroom floor.

On tires, as Thar is Scorpio in disguise , it is equipped with Scorpio tires (P235/70R16) and Scorpio wheel rims (6.5J*16 / +55 mm offset). Please do not change them as they are perfectly suited for 99% of applications that you will put your vehicle through. For the 1% of "so-called ego trip applications", don't ruin your 99% use! FINALLY IT IS YOUR CALL. I CAN ONLY GUIDE YOU. Therefore, my recommendation is - "DO NOTHING".

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2011, 11:42   #99
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@Trueintrepid - I guess you have your answers about the gear indicators and door ajar warning. I am sure it can get connected if you know the right people and have the right components. Thanks for the compliment on the top. Yup, a lot of sweat has gone into it and it is still not complete.

We have found that there is a 10mm difference between the height on the left and right sides and are working to fix it. We want everything to be perfect on it - no jugaad! This means that we will have to make a new mold - so will look into 4x4addict's suggestion on changing the side glass!

@Nitin - the seats may not be from the Innova - not sure which vehicle they are from, but was told it is from a Toyota by the guy who I bought it from. They fit perfectly in the back width-wise. They are NOT double folding. I am fabricating a box on which they will sit, so they can be double folded. This gives some extra height to the seats so it is not uncomfortable for the people sitting in them. The boxes will be hinged so the seats can be folded forward. If I need to remove the seats, will be easy - just unbolt the boxes.

I am waiting for the HT to be complete before I do this as I also plan to fabricate a rally spec roll cage which will have seat belt mounts on them so the rear passengers will have seat belts as well. Will also be putting in a rear parcel shelf which will attach to the roll cage behind the seats like they have in hatches - need somewhere to keep my tissue box!

The idea I have for my Thar is that everything should be plug-n-play - the top, the seats, the console, the speakers, etc...So, depending on my need, I can remove stuff quickly or put them back.

************************************************** *******

The other problem we have realised with the top is that there is no easy place to store the front when removed. So we are now adding a set of mounts above the rear where the front can be bolted on when removed. It would be easy to just have a couple of bolts sticking out of the rear. Want it to look good though, so there is a bit of a challenge! Any ideas on how to make something that looks good?

We will also be adding a carrier to the top, so removing and mounting the top should be easy with the carrier. Another design challenge. Love working on the jeep, but it takes it toll on time, energy, money and stress!

Thanks,
Manas
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Old 9th November 2011, 11:57   #100
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The other problem we have realised with the top is that there is no easy place to store the front when removed. So we are now adding a set of mounts above the rear where the front can be bolted on when removed. It would be easy to just have a couple of bolts sticking out of the rear. Want it to look good though, so there is a bit of a challenge! Any ideas on how to make something that looks good?

We will also be adding a carrier to the top, so removing and mounting the top should be easy with the carrier. Another design challenge. Love working on the jeep, but it takes it toll on time, energy, money and stress!

Thanks,
Manas
1) How about using similar clamps that hold the front in place on the jeep, to hold it ontop of the rear ?

2) the other option is to clamp it to the carrier...
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Old 9th November 2011, 11:59   #101
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Trueintrepid - you can take delivery of the vehicle and on the same day you can drive for 1000 kms, no issue. Just be a little careful not to exceed 3000 rpm for the first 1000 odd kms or so. The days of "running-in" as understood in the good old days are over. The product must perform as soon as it leaves the showroom floor.

On tires, as Thar is Scorpio in disguise , it is equipped with Scorpio tires (P235/70R16) and Scorpio wheel rims (6.5J*16 / +55 mm offset). Please do not change them as they are perfectly suited for 99% of applications that you will put your vehicle through. For the 1% of "so-called ego trip applications", don't ruin your 99% use! FINALLY IT IS YOUR CALL. I CAN ONLY GUIDE YOU. Therefore, my recommendation is - "DO NOTHING".

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Thanks again Mr. Dhabhar for a prompt response! I am feeling a whole lot confident planning this trip now. Will however be watchful not to exceed 3000rpm for the first 1000km.
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Old 9th November 2011, 12:06   #102
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@Trueintrepid - I guess you have your answers about the gear indicators and door ajar warning. I am sure it can get connected if you know the right people and have the right components. Thanks for the compliment on the top. Yup, a lot of sweat has gone into it and it is still not complete.

We have found that there is a 10mm difference between the height on the left and right sides and are working to fix it. We want everything to be perfect on it - no jugaad! This means that we will have to make a new mold - so will look into 4x4addict's suggestion on changing the side glass!

Since this is the second iteration, I can already see a lot of improvements reflecting on the HT. My guesses are with the third, you'd probably be able to iron-out all the issues and churn up a perfect functioning HT!

I may be coming to Bangalore in Feb, next year. Hope to see this wonder in person!
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Old 9th November 2011, 12:14   #103
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

Looking at something like this - but less ugly! Something that makes the top fit snug on the other.

Just got off the phone with Vijay - he suggested mounting inside the rear - think that might work and look better!

Any other suggestions?
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Old 9th November 2011, 12:56   #104
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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....Just got off the phone with Vijay - he suggested mounting inside the rear - think that might work and look better!

Any other suggestions?
Mounting outside the rear sheet metal will tend to keep water out better than mounting inside. The monsoon is particularly heavy here in North India where the water vapor hits the mountains and just unloads rain by the bucket. Water has a nasty way of finding its way into vehicles under these circumstances.

The air deflector on top will greatly hamper anyone who wants to have a strong rack on top for long distance, e.g. Himalaya treks.

I like the increased visibility to the rear in this version.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 9th November 2011 at 12:58.
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Old 9th November 2011, 13:12   #105
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

On second thoughts, since you are going to fabricate another mould, you can shape the rear mould such that the front fits snugly ontop of the rear without any gap between the two and use the front clamps to hold it down.

( if you drive with the front mounted on the rear, you will have issues with wind ?? )
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