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Old 9th November 2011, 13:19   #106
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Originally Posted by manasm View Post
We have found that there is a 10mm difference between the height on the left and right sides and are working to fix it. We want everything to be perfect on it - no jugaad! This means that we will have to make a new mold - so will look into 4x4addict's suggestion on changing the side glass!
Awsome ! Hopefully you can incorporate this. Please ignore my earler suggestion of qualis glass and use the Max Festera glass instead. Qualis glass will be harder to source and most likely more expensive given qualis is out of production.
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Old 9th November 2011, 17:44   #107
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Thanks again Mr. Dhabhar for a prompt response! I am feeling a whole lot confident planning this trip now. Will however be watchful not to exceed 3000rpm for the first 1000km.
@Trueintrepid, would you not miss the first service due after 5000 kms if you undertake your trip to Shillong considering that its 6000 kms to and fro.
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Old 9th November 2011, 18:13   #108
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

Dear all - I "happened to have" a 1997 model original US Wrangler with original hard top, standing in Nasik since 1997. You must see it to know what a real Jeep hard top is! Its a masterpiece of design. I wanted to progress it but then, .

I am posting Shibu's (Jeep Captain's) Wrangler photograph. This is what I had and this is what we must aim to do. We are nowhere near to what is actually required of a Jeep hard top.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2011, 18:23   #109
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

Mr Dhabhar,

Thanks!

But since there is nothing else in the market, I am quite happy with mine!

If your top was ready would have just bought it and not worried about making my own.

I have had a few Jeeps (as well as a Disco and a Nissan Patrol) as I was growing up in Dubai (in the 80s and 90s) with hard tops and yes, those tops were even then miles ahead of what I am doing in 2011, but we work with what we have within our limitations! As someone with very little knowledge of vehicles and even less of FRP, it has been a great experience to come up with this and bring it to even this level with the help of people in this forum who made gave ideas, suggestions and constructive criticism of the work we are doing.

I am sorry it does not cut the mustard with you as a "real hard top", but I am satisfied as it is something I have done with my own hands and mind. And to me, that is what is really important.

Also, if you look at the body design of the Thar, because of the curves on the b-pillar and other areas including the rear, it is very difficult to keep things as flat and straight as in your pic.

Regards,
Manas


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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - I "happened to have" a 1997 model original US Wrangler with original hard top, standing in Nasik since 1997. You must see it to know what a real Jeep hard top is! Its a masterpiece of design. I wanted to progress it but then, .

I am posting Shibu's (Jeep Captain's) Wrangler photograph. This is what I had and this is what we must aim to do. We are nowhere near to what is actually required of a Jeep hard top.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by manasm : 9th November 2011 at 18:44.
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Old 9th November 2011, 19:12   #110
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Mr Dhabhar, Thanks! But since there is nothing else in the market, I am quite happy with mine! If your top was ready would have just bought it and not worried about making my own.

I have had a few Jeeps (as well as a Disco and a Nissan Patrol) as I was growing up in Dubai (in the 80s and 90s) with hard tops and yes, those tops were even then miles ahead of what I am doing in 2011, but we work with what we have within our limitations! As someone with very little knowledge of vehicles and even less of FRP, it has been a great experience to come up with this and bring it to even this level with the help of people in this forum who made gave ideas, suggestions and constructive criticism of the work we are doing.

I am sorry it does not cut the mustard with you as a "real hard top", but I am satisfied as it is something I have done with my own hands and mind. And to me, that is what is really important.

Also, if you look at the body design of the Thar, because of the curves on the b-pillar and other areas including the rear, it is very difficult to keep things as flat and straight as in your pic.

Regards,
Manas
Dear Manas - I am not doubting your efforts at all. I understand the limitation within which you have to work. Its just that the FRP "HAND LAYUP" PROCESS which everybody (and therefore you also) uses all over India due to cost and time considerations is not the right process to fabricate a critical component like a hard top, that's all I am saying. FRP is an artist's material, it does not lend itself to good life, fit and finish and general durability. For a correct solution, at minimum level, it must be vacuum formed, at mid level there are soft tool solutions available (Pune vendors specialize in this area, I know them) and at top level it must be injection molded. It is easy to type this post, I know that it takes crores of rupees in cost and around 13 months in lead time to make an injection mould. The kind of volumes Thar does don't justify the business case of injection molding at all. Nobody will do it. Customers will keep on shouting. That's the game, and in order to succeed, you need to be perfect in your strategies, volumes, price positioning, everything. This is what excites me immensely.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2011, 19:12   #111
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
This is what I had and this is what we must aim to do. We are nowhere near to what is actually required of a Jeep hard top.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Funny you should say something like that. The Thar also does not seem anywhere near a '97 Wrangler. Wish you had aimed higher as well.

Since we are nowhere near what is required of a real Jeep, guess your Hardtop will have to do, Manas.

Odd that there was no option to try and engineer an activation switch on the mechanical levers rather than considering redesigning the console and abandoning for cost. Awesome stuff.

Cheers.
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Old 9th November 2011, 19:35   #112
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Wish you had aimed higher as well. Cheers.
Dear gthang - your above comment "wish you had aimed higher as well", if I had done that, it would have remained my "wish" forever. We would have had a string of "tie-wearing / corporate-looking" MBAs flaunting power point presentations all over the place. Forget it, it does not work that way!

Today, it is selling off showroom floors! This is reality.
Today, real people are driving it on real roads! This is reality.
Today, people are telling me that in spite of everything, they are enjoying it! This is reality.
Today, people are connecting with me and have become my Brand Ambassadors of the product! This is reality.
That's what matters, my dear Sir! For something to actually happen, somebody's got to do something!

For Manas's hard top, I salute him, because he is the only person who has done for the hard top what I did for the vehicle. He has actually done something. It takes guts. I know that his hard top will sell, and sell in good volumes. I wish him all the very best.

Sorry for the outburst, but I had to say it. I hope this post does not get deleted, if it does, fair enough.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2011, 19:46   #113
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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Odd that there was no option to try and engineer an activation switch on the mechanical levers rather than considering redesigning the console
Do you know which glasses (esp. the side ones) are being used here for Manas HT? What is your opinion on the glass being used? I know it is for a small volume but still why?

Spike
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Old 9th November 2011, 20:18   #114
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Do you know which glasses (esp. the side ones) are being used here for Manas HT? What is your opinion on the glass being used? I know it is for a small volume but still why?

Spike

Are you asking me? Or being Rhetorical?

If asking me, what does it have to do with what was quoted?

Is this Off-topic?

Cheers.
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Old 9th November 2011, 21:08   #115
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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@Trueintrepid, would you not miss the first service due after 5000 kms if you undertake your trip to Shillong considering that its 6000 kms to and fro.

I have planned to get it serviced at Nagpur on my way back. I should be closer to 5000km at that point as per my calculations. Mahindra actually has a good service network in almost all major towns in the country.

By the way, a piece of information - Rocky Beige Thar is a big rage in Shillong! And the local tribe there i.e. the Khasis love this jeep to the core!
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Old 9th November 2011, 21:44   #116
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^^ No, I am asking you. It is not off-topic as the ideology behind both design is the same I guess, hence the query.

Spike
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Old 9th November 2011, 22:07   #117
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^^ No, I am asking you. It is not off-topic as the ideology behind both design is the same I guess, hence the query.

Spike

@ Spike, I would ask you to explain the ideology you are talking about, but, talking about design ideologies in somebody's thread about a personal project seems off topic to me.

If you are in some way trying to compare Manas's effort and M&M's, I would kindly like to excuse myself from that discussion.

Thanks.

Cheers.
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Old 10th November 2011, 00:07   #118
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

Spike/Gthang,

There is no way to compare the effort of releasing the Thar to the effort made on my hard top! Lets leave it at that. I have met Spike a number of times and have spoken to him on the phone even more and it is a different ball game when you have a corporation to deal with! I have just myself and a friend and a little money and time that we have saved with our regular jobs. All corporations have a number of people who work at cross purposes and it was a miracle that the Thar even came out in the market.

It was an ideal vehicle for me to buy (the wife would never have let me buy a used jeep) and I wish it came with a HT, but it didn't and it was my own idea to get it done! It was not with the intention of making it something I could sell to others - so I made it as I pleased and what I thought was good for my use. In a company, you would have to fight others to get what you needed, so I commend the effort of Spike, Behram and the others who made it happen for me (the Thar, that is).

Gthang - I thank you for your support on my design of the top. It has taken since Feb to get this far...but lets leave each persons opinions to themselves.

Mr. Dhabhar,

My strategy was and is really simple. Make something that someone like me, a casual user, would be able to use simply and easily. Make something that did not take a lot of effort to use. Make something that in my eyes looked good! I am not looking at making huge money with this product. I have had the privilege of knowing people like Prateesh, Shekar, Jammy, Dwarak, Swamy, Vijay and others too numerous to mention who have introduced me to jeeps and what they can do. And they have inspired me to make something with almost zero knowledge and a huge learning curve.

All I ask for is constructive criticism like your last post to me about injection moulding etc (which i already had looked into)...and not just blanket statements. What I will guarantee with this top is a good life, fit and finish and something that works. We are working with people who work on the LCA, so I know their pedigree.

As far as price, I am not looking to make huge margins on this like Mahindra, but am happy to just see something I have worked on on the road (or off it) and will be more than happy to work with people to improve at no cost or minimum cost to them. I already run a business which is quite successful and have no need of the extra money. This is something I am doing purely for the hell of it, and if my father taught me anything, it was - no matter what you do, do it to the best you can!

I would love to talk to you about the top and ideas and improvements as well as the top you have designed if you have the time and energy to deal with someone who is a novice and will ask you a million questions! Maybe together we can make your hard top a reality. Just let me know.

************************************************** ************************************************** *************
Now back to our regularly scheduled programme:

I bought the Thar a few months ago - August and have done about 2000kms in it. I really wanted it as a daily drive, but with the work on the top, no such luck! Getting kicked by the wife!
Want to really start using it properly!! Any suggestions on when I should do the first service? Should I just go ahead or wait for the 4000kms?


Regards,
Manas

Last edited by manasm : 10th November 2011 at 00:12.
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Old 10th November 2011, 02:22   #119
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and if my father taught me anything, it was - no matter what you do, do it to the best you can!
That's the spirit Manas. You know what, it makes me (us) feel so good when I (we) see such passion and enthusiasm towards work. There is no second thought about your dedication and hard work behind this HT, it also makes me happy to see someone do something which we as a team had envisaged. The very fact you are someone who is not just talking and actually trying to do something says a lot about you . Leave these things aside and concentrate on what you have in hand, I know you will.

Reminds me of the saying "Winners do not to different things, they do things differently" and in my book you are a winner already. Kudos!


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Any suggestions on when I should do the first service? Should I just go ahead or wait for the 4000kms?
Just stick to manufacturers recommendation, that's it.

Spike
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Old 10th November 2011, 15:27   #120
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Default Re: Tharred and Feathered - BlackStarr arrives

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..... This is reality.
That's what matters, my dear Sir! For something to actually happen, somebody's got to do something!

Only sitting back and taking pot shots at other people who pick up the mantle of responsibility, create and produce is also "doing something" and is another kind of reality. It's just not a reality a lot of us want for ourselves.

" A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

-General George Patton
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