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Old 17th February 2012, 08:51   #31
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Sir, personally I haven't seen "Spidey"... (unfortunate me). But what I gather after reading about it on these forums is that, "She is a CULT"

(I wish this forum recognizes all such Vehicles at a separate thread).

Congrats Jaggu ... I envy you.
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Old 14th March 2012, 00:51   #32
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Cool Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Its been a while since i updated here the happenings. For starters there was a set of work that was pending after last Palar event. So soon after Spidey came home, it went back to Suraksha for the repair. Main issue was the rear axle set up. The tube was bent like a banana, axle also had some wounds due to the extreme set up and finally the leaf springs.

So out goes the banana

The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey11.jpg

and in comes the spanking new diff tube, needed to add the traction bar clamp etc and put the lockers back in. Unfortunately locker is still giving some issues.

The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey1.jpg

Many of the smaller niggles were also attended to and took delivery of the vehicle. Drove around for a week or so, but then it never felt right. Issue no 1 vehicle is tilted to right, front felt too soft always looking for opportunity to give a topple feel. Some amount of R&D revealed that the new CFL up ahead might be giving away.

There was a small local event coming up, so decided to get them (CFL) checked. And we were right, the front CFL had cracked! Again! This time it was decided that this R&D with front CFL is over, somehow the SPOA and larger wheels were not going well with the CFL (many other imported leafs dont also). So back went the leaf spring set up, but this time around added an additional short leaf and re-cambered the whole set. Results were good, vehicle had a better poise.

The front CFL cracked.

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The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-cfl2.jpg

The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-photo-3.jpg

Surprisingly this added leaf helped quite a bit with handling onroad. Spoke to the CFL manufacturer and they agreed to replace the damaged pair for a new set of rear CFL. Which can be kept as back up.

Vehicle ran well in the event but proved the point that this is not a speed event machine. Its for serious crawling stuff. Nevertheless had fun.

The Bangalore annual OTR was coming up and could manage to do one recce with Spidey and the BODA boys, usual relaxed BODA kind of fun. I had to skip the actual event due to various reasons and Khan wanted to enjoy the walk, so Spidey was parked at home.

The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey9.jpg



Summer was setting in and all i needed was an excuse, always a topic of conversation during our longer trips - AC cabin. Spoke to Tobias at Wecool and a saturday was blocked for the job.

Sanden 505, Bridgestone pipes and rest all local but new stuff. Wecool managed to get the compressor and the clamps (which was a concern from availability angle) and the install went well. Some pics.

The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey2.jpg
The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey3.jpg
The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey4.jpg
The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey5.jpg
The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey6.jpg
The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey7.jpg
The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-spidey8.jpg

Had added some "imported thermocoal" which does not absorb water to the firewall and transmission tunnel first half. These are the major heat seepage area's in a gypsy. The old additional electric fan was replaced with a more compact high power unit connected to AC circuit. Have added a parallel direct switch for any extreme OTR weather so that fan can be switched ON without the AC compressor also ON. So far i never had to switch the bypass ON since temp is rock steady at around 1/2 mark. Removed the OE blower unit, though it looks much more elagent its an absolute waste when it comes to cooling efficiency. Point to note, never forget to put the "timing markings" on the new pulley. I did it myself and saved a bit of TDC search afterwards.

Result- AC was super chilling, grill temp going to -0.x deg before cutting off. Power loss was almost nil unlike a typical 507 set up. Hardly any difference in FE also. I am

Still the itch was on.... after the engine grooving job a slight pinging was noticed in the engine. Nothing serious (Palar was conquered with this) but yes not so minor that it can be ignored. Trip materialized to Mysore and so Spidey went back to Somender Singh for some tune up. Adjusted the valve, set the timing to 8 deg static and took a test drive. Pinging persists. We figured out that a colder plug is the only solution. Did not have much choice there in Mysore, but out went Denso 20's "made in Japan" and absolutely crappy looking Champion 8's goes in. Some respite found and we returned.

Back to garage (Khan says Spidey has never spent so much time at garage's while it was with him). Rear CFL's had arrived and the older ones were sagging thanks to all the pounding and twists it had received over the years. So out goes the old one (as a spare set) and new stiffer, wider ones installed.

Oh bonus was a stereo which was originally part of the vehicle going back in where it belonged.

Some more scratching head and picked up a set of Denso iridium plugs (2.6k! but paisa wasool stuff) for the engine. Pinging issue seems to have been finally resolved 99.9% and vehicle is smooth as silk. Did a compression check and i was not surprised to see 220 psi reading and that too with a press fit connector (threaded hose was leaking so could not use).

This should explain what really has gone into the engine rejuvenation + groove job and the naging pinging we suffered i suppose. Anyways issue has been rectified and along with starter overhaul, radiator clean up, door hinge replacement etc (i can go on and on, last work shop visit list had 20 jobs) finally Spidey is ready!

Ready?! Well almost, Spidey is almost Perfect! A free reving torque monster which keeps the occupants air conditioned and excited with the odd bounce or two. Once the rear locker set up is set right it will be 101% ready to rock and roll.

Eagerly looking west wards for the monsoon.

cheers
jaggu

Last edited by Jaggu : 14th March 2012 at 18:58. Reason: Argh pic attachment!
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:20   #33
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Hi Jaggu,
Nice to know about the AC install on spidey and no overheating problems.
I have been toying this idea of an AC in mine from quite some time now.
Could you please add a picture of how the dash and the blower looks from inside?
And, with this setup, would the windshield still fog-up during rains?
Thanks,
Deepak

PS: Would call you sometime before going to Wecool
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Old 14th March 2012, 12:50   #34
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Hi Jaggu,

Please strengthen your tubes by adding brackets. You can google and see some designs for strengthening the axle tubes.
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Old 14th March 2012, 14:36   #35
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvivek View Post
Met a super hero Today !!!!
--------------------
Khan sir , hope I haven't invaded your privacy norms by posting this pic here. Had a beauty of a video of Spidey, but unable to upload the same due to my current status.
Well he is the super hero and ensures the technical capabilities are evaluated at regular intervals.

Why dont you upload the video in Youtube and post the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHyde View Post
Sir, personally I haven't seen "Spidey"... (unfortunate me). But what I gather after reading about it on these forums is that, "She is a CULT"
===========
Congrats Jaggu ... I envy you.

Thank you and all credits to Khan. As he says its just a normal offroad gypsy

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Hi Jaggu,
Nice to know about the AC install on spidey and no overheating problems.
================
And, with this setup, would the windshield still fog-up during rains?
Thanks,
Deepak

PS: Would call you sometime before going to Wecool
Here you go, i went for a simple to service and efficient install since this vehicle will be exposed to offroading and its perils and things needing service often etc.

The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!-photo.jpg

You can definitely retain the OE ducts/pipes and route the AC (additional) blower through them. Lil more work than my install will be required. The switches can be fixed at the center blank piece between the two vents. Or even retain the blower unit itself and then fix just the cooling coil inside, which means another days work easily but its possible. Rajesh's Mirage has the second set up.

For me it was function more than looks.

Reg fogging during rains, should be taken care since any AC will do the humidity control also. Not got a chance to test till now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Hi Jaggu,

Please strengthen your tubes by adding brackets. You can google and see some designs for strengthening the axle tubes.
You mean Truss? We have tried it in other vehicles and even truss alone will not help. What is being planned is Truss plus internal reinforcement to the tube in the form of pipe insertion.

The diff tube is one of the weakest links in gypsy and will need quite a bit of strengthening to survive the kind of abuse and mods we put the vehicle through.

But yes working with Swastik Fabs to get this done... soon

EDIT: Pics i missed out in the last post.

The compression!

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Iridium plug set
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Jaggu : 14th March 2012 at 14:58.
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Old 14th March 2012, 19:27   #36
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
@ Jaggu:

1. The AC blower in the current location may hit your left knee during OTR jumps - Pl be careful. I had mine in the same place and later shifted it inside the dash and finally removed it altogether

2. Why did you consider iridium plugs? IMO Iridium plugs are not exactly the best for slow speed OTRs.

3. Can you share engine grooving details done by Mr. Somendar singh? Where exactly was the grooves done? Any pictures to share?

4. What is the problem with your locker setup?

Cheers
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Old 14th March 2012, 19:36   #37
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Well done Jeggooo but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Ready?! Well almost, Spidey is almost Perfect!
jaggu
is wishful thinking and is every offroader's fervent hope after the latest visit to the garage.

Until the next visit.
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Old 14th March 2012, 19:39   #38
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
@ Jaggu:

1. The AC blower in the current location may hit your left knee during OTR jumps - Pl be careful. I had mine in the same place and later shifted it inside the dash and finally removed it altogether

2. Why did you consider iridium plugs? IMO Iridium plugs are not exactly the best for slow speed OTRs.

3. Can you share engine grooving details done by Mr. Somendar singh? Where exactly was the grooves done? Any pictures to share?

4. What is the problem with your locker setup?

Cheers
Let me give my 2 cents for the #4 part.

The issue is with the diff setup & not with the lockers per-se. However, the manifestation of the issue is seen through the lockers with increased sound from lockers. The big tyres + spacers put stress on the diff and the creates issues.
@Jaggu, remember the angles we had measured of both the wheels at Gopals?

Now with a new setup, that is being planned in collaboration with swastikfabs, this issue from the rear diff should go away. (hopefully)
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Old 14th March 2012, 20:28   #39
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

@ Steer: Eternal optimist in me speaking, press ignore button.


Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
@ Jaggu:

1. The AC blower in the current location may hit your left knee during OTR jumps - Pl be careful. I had mine in the same place and later shifted it inside the dash and finally removed it altogether

2. Why did you consider iridium plugs? IMO Iridium plugs are not exactly the best for slow speed OTRs.

3. Can you share engine grooving details done by Mr. Somendar singh? Where exactly was the grooves done? Any pictures to share?

4. What is the problem with your locker setup?

Cheers
1) Its already moved to the passenger side and passenger will have to suffer With the BMW seats (hight lumbar adjust) knee clears, already checked. (picture is slightly misrepresentative)

2) Pinging! High compression ordinary plug heat transfer not enough. I have been checking the slow rpm performance and so far so good (actually superb, even in another engine the iridium plugs are doing wonders with grooves), maybe due to higher compression and aluminum block which heats up fast.

Some fiddling with idle speed through Tech 2 also has happened with last suraksha visit (mainly for AC). So ill update once i have better results.

3) No idea, i didn't get this done. Khan is to be blamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Let me give my 2 cents for the #4 part.

The issue is with the diff setup & not with the lockers per-se. However, the manifestation of the issue is seen through the lockers with increased sound from lockers. The big tyres + spacers put stress on the diff and the creates issues.
@Jaggu, remember the angles we had measured of both the wheels at Gopals?

Now with a new setup, that is being planned in collaboration with swastikfabs, this issue from the rear diff should go away. (hopefully)
4) KS has replied, and we are still in R&D phase. ^^
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Old 15th March 2012, 09:32   #40
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

whats the ac project alone costing?
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Old 15th March 2012, 09:59   #41
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
whats the ac project alone costing?
All parts + fitment charge came to 24,000/- the insulation material was additional which came to around 160/sq feet IIRC. I paid them (the installation boys) a tip of 500/-
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Old 15th March 2012, 12:01   #42
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Jaggu - congrats on scoring the best Gypsy in the country! Good to know that it stays within the off-roading family.

I got to spend some time with Dwarf when I visited Vijaykumar to sort out some issues with my Gypsy. Looks really nice and glad to know that dwarf also remains in the same family.

Regarding the AC - my installer took a couple of days to fabricate path from the blower to the stock vents. I now control the blower with the in-dash control unit (factory standard) and the air flows out the vents on the dashboard. I don't have a blower sticking out like you do. Aesthetically far better and more space for the legs and the blower is very strong!

If you want to remove the dash to have a look at how it has been done in my Gypsy - feel free to ask and I'll deliver the vehicle to Sanjay's garage. I go to that area quite often these days as the Kawasaki Ninja service center is in the next block.

My AC fitting cost me 40K but that came with warranty and higher end components like the Sanden SV10 variable compressor and the Superking blower with the higher rpm motors (original) and not the jugaad local 800 rpm ones which flood the market these days. I must add that the 6v10 does put a perceptible load on the engine affecting performance until cooling efficiency has been reached at which point the load drops significantly.

In your case with the crawler ratios, this will not be apparent at all.

Question to Khan and the others:

Does a crawler ratio gearbox make sense even for a more or less stock Gypsy without lockers / big tires? I think my city driving experience would be a lot better with the crawlers...but I could be mistaken. Thoughts?

Last edited by gsferrari : 15th March 2012 at 12:08.
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Old 15th March 2012, 14:10   #43
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Thumbs up Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Thanks for the pics and details

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...So out goes the banana....
any pics of the 'banana' after it has been removed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...and in comes the spanking new diff tube...
Nice to see a brand new, shiny Gypsy diff tube . Curious, how much does it cost?

How about the axles-half-shafts themselves...are they stock or strengthened/upgraded ?
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Old 15th March 2012, 15:19   #44
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Regarding the AC - my installer took a couple of days to fabricate path from the blower to the stock vents. I now control the blower with the in-dash control unit (factory standard) and the air flows out the vents on the dashboard. I don't have a blower sticking out like you do. Aesthetically far better and more space for the legs and the blower is very strong!
Thanks Guru, i know of this and that was the plan originally but then decided against it since one dip in slush (has happened inspite of sitting tall) would mean ripping out the whole dash to service. Current set up just needs few bolts to be removed. That was the reason. And no need to fabricate any plumbing, just plonk the coil inside the stock blower box, its possible and Rajesh's vehicle its installed. The ducts are really good moulded stuff, and i have kept it.

Wecool offered this and i decided against at the install day, when i saw the circus of removing the stock unit. I have completely ripped it off and kept it in my garage now


Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
If you want to remove the dash to have a look at how it has been done in my Gypsy - feel free to ask and I'll deliver the vehicle to Sanjay's garage
Thanks but as i mentioned, this is what i preferred, in spidey looks really dont matter and the blower unit is very small and hardly intrudes the driver foot well. Yes it could have been a tad less louder, but then stereo takes care of that now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
I must add that the 6v10 does put a perceptible load on the engine affecting performance until cooling efficiency has been reached at which point the load drops significantly.
One of the reasons i wanted only 505, it was difficult to source (when available it would be chinese, but finally managed the Singapore one, yes they have shop there) but goes well with the 1.3 liter engine. You will hardly make out the power drop.

Even wecool was surprised with the results of this install, they were quite apprehensive initially and i had to insist. Yes a superking blower would have been good, but i was on a shoe string budget, but please note apart from cabin blower, drier bottle and condenser fan (not the condenser), all parts are from reputed bin like Sanden, Delphi, Bridgestone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
In your case with the crawler ratios, this will not be apparent at all.

Nothing to do with crawl ratio, the other gypsy has even wilder crawl but power drop is evident. Its pure physics, why people go for bigger compressor? Due to the area inside gypsy which honestly speaking is better partitioned off for the sake of the small 1.3 liter engine. This is not the first time am getting AC done for Gypsy and i know the issues after getting my hands burned multiple times



Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Does a crawler ratio gearbox make sense even for a more or less stock Gypsy without lockers / big tires? I think my city driving experience would be a lot better with the crawlers...but I could be mistaken. Thoughts?
Definitely yes, it will give you better grunt at slow speed and acceleration. Top clicks will drop but hardly matters with Gypsy. Spidey on Trepador is like a Rottweiler.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
any pics of the 'banana' after it has been removed?

Nice to see a brand new, shiny Gypsy diff tube . Curious, how much does it cost?

How about the axles-half-shafts themselves...are they stock or strengthened/upgraded ?
I should have the pics, will post if i find them.

Diff tube would be around 2600 bucks (just the tube).

Shafts are stock, till date they have been holding, its the front shaft that is prone to failure in Gypsy.
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Old 15th March 2012, 19:25   #45
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Does a crawler ratio gearbox make sense even for a more or less stock Gypsy without lockers / big tires? I think my city driving experience would be a lot better with the crawlers...but I could be mistaken. Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Nothing to do with crawl ratio, the other gypsy has even wilder crawl but power drop is evident. Its pure physics, why people go for bigger compressor? Due to the area inside gypsy which honestly speaking is better partitioned off for the sake of the small 1.3 liter engine. This is not the first time am getting AC done for Gypsy and i know the issues after getting my hands burned multiple times





Definitely yes, it will give you better grunt at slow speed and acceleration. Top clicks will drop but hardly matters with Gypsy. Spidey on Trepador is like a Rottweiler.

I am foxed here . How will a crawler GB affect AC load on the engine? He is talking about city driving experience !!
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