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Old 16th March 2012, 15:02   #61
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Originally Posted by satan View Post
Not sure if they are available in India. I ordered mine from RRO and had a friend carry them for me from the US. They were for USD 225.
=============
Yes, Petroworks make a similar HD clutch for the samurais, but that is slightly harder per feedback from the samurai community in the states. The Centreforce has a very soft feel to it, infact softer than stock.

Thank you so much. Will keep them as options.

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Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
Jaggu - I use special racing springs for my Ninja 650R with the stock plates and the results are pretty amazing. Perhaps using stronger springs will increase clutch life and performance as opposed to a complete clutch plate - pressure plate swap?
In gypsy you will need better pressure plates but it will make the pedal hard. Still the plates are too soft, so will eventually wear out. If upgrading then its better to go the whole jing bang with plates also. Esteem performance kit should be available, they should be direct fit i suppose.
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Old 16th March 2012, 19:06   #62
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I have stock clutch in use for 3+ years of hardcore pedal to metal..Have auto lockers and 4.16:1 crawlers installed which gives a perfect 12% reduction in 2WD normally and a 100% reduction in 4WD-Lo-1. I have not faced any driving issues because of the 12% reduction till date.

Top speed as mentioned is around 120 kph running Maxis Trepadors 235s. BTW, mine is a carburetor engine.

Last edited by headers : 16th March 2012 at 19:26.
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Old 16th March 2012, 19:12   #63
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Have auto lockers and 4.16:1 crawlers installed which gives a perfect 12% reduction in 2WD normally and a 200% reduction in 4WD-Lo-1. I have not faced any driving issues because of the 12% reduction till date.
200% are you sure? Even the link Deepak posted quotes

Quote:
Gear Set 4.16:1 Gears 4.9:1 Gears 5.14:1 Gears 6.4:1 Gears 6.5:1 Gears
Low Range
Reduction 84% 115% 127% 181% 187%
High Range
Reduction 12% 16% 18.3% 17% 20%
Suggested Tire Size 29-30
For 200% you would need more than 6.4:1 right?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 12:33   #64
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Can you post list of modifications done to it?
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Old 4th April 2012, 09:47   #65
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Can you post list of modifications done to it?
Nothing much just functional mechanical mods like

Mechanical upgrade:

SPOA suspension F&R
Modified steering arm
Rear CFL
Front Bilstien - for extended travel
Lock Right diff lock rear
Traction bar for rear diff
Crawler ratio 4.16
Shortened tail overhang
Swastik fab snorkel kit with K&N oe replacement filter
31" Yoko MT tyres on 15" alloys
2" spacer for alloys
Lambda FWH front axles

and some creature comforts

Cosmetic upgrade

Swastik fab front bumper
BMW 3 series seat
Hard top cabin, similar to rally gypsies
AC & Stereo
Hell lot of stickering

Did i miss anything @ Khan?
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Old 4th April 2012, 11:05   #66
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Default Re: The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Nothing much just functional mechanical mods like

Mechanical upgrade:

SPOA suspension F&R
Modified steering arm
Rear CFL
Front Bilstien - for extended travel
Lock Right diff lock rear
Traction bar for rear diff
Crawler ratio 4.16
Shortened tail overhang
Swastik fab snorkel kit with K&N oe replacement filter
31" Yoko MT tyres on 15" alloys
2" spacer for alloys
Lambda FWH front axles

and some creature comforts

Cosmetic upgrade

Swastik fab front bumper
BMW 3 series seat
Hard top cabin, similar to rally gypsies
AC & Stereo
Hell lot of stickering

Did i miss anything @ Khan?
Some more Jaggu
  • Engine grooving
  • Sway bar disconnected
But ya, Khan would know better!
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Old 4th April 2012, 11:12   #67
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Originally Posted by starter View Post
Some more Jaggu
  • Engine grooving
  • Sway bar disconnected
But ya, Khan would know better!
Lol yeah how can i forget.

- Engine grooving done by Somender Sing himself and we have a feeling compression was also bumped. Right now running Denso Iridium plugs.

- Sway bar was removed for better articulation, IIRC before SPOA itself
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Old 3rd June 2012, 17:24   #68
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All parts + fitment charge came to 24,000/- the insulation material was additional which came to around 160/sq feet IIRC. I paid them (the installation boys) a tip of 500/-

I was quoted 24K without bill with seasons blower and 30K with superking blower and the 505 compressor!! Is the price of superking blower right?

--Rahul
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Old 3rd June 2012, 18:03   #69
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Lol yeah how can i forget.

- Engine grooving done by Somender Sing himself and we have a feeling compression was also bumped. Right now running Denso Iridium plugs.

- Sway bar was removed for better articulation, IIRC before SPOA itself
Need to add a little on my experiences with "ENGINE GROOVING"

This method does change the engine characteristics by a margin, what i noticed in my M-800.

1) Car becomes Torque y
2) 1 gear is only for wheel spins
3) 2nd is the new 3rd Gear
4) 4th gear acceleration goes from 20 - 130 effortlessly
5) FE seems to have improved by a margin.

Engine grooving on my 800 was done by my humble mechanic after watching Somender Singh's Youtube video, He has done few more modifications like Over size pistons, (increasing combustion chamber volume) Valve lapping, shaved off a few mm's on the piston head (1 lac km back), Head inlet and exhaust polishing, Water jacket porting and few minor betterments to keep the engine as peppy as it could for a 800cc motor.

Can anyone Concur with this please.
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Old 4th June 2012, 09:59   #70
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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
I was quoted 24K without bill with seasons blower and 30K with superking blower and the 505 compressor!! Is the price of superking blower right?

--Rahul
Yup superking is little more expensive and in summers prices will be high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Need to add a little on my experiences with "ENGINE GROOVING"
==============
Can anyone Concur with this please.
Which part? You have mentioned too many, but yes to overall changes due to engine grooving bit.
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Old 4th June 2012, 13:32   #71
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Can any of you post pictures of the engine grooving part? Video Links?

Interesting DIY?
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Old 14th June 2012, 16:43   #72
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Removed the OE blower unit, though it looks much more elagent its an absolute waste when it comes to cooling efficiency. Point to note, never forget to put the "timing markings" on the new pulley. I did it myself and saved a bit of TDC search afterwards.

Result- AC was super chilling, grill temp going to -0.x deg before cutting off. Power loss was almost nil unlike a typical 507 set up. Hardly any difference in FE also. I am

cheers
jaggu
I got the A/C job done about 7-8 days back. Yet to set the thermostat and manual electric fan switch as the soft top is open always from the rear and the curtain behind front row is pending a visit to JC road. The temp at the vent was about 8 celcius after a few minutes with rear open. Engine temp needle is now only 1 or two degrees up from perfectly horizontal in bumper to bumper traffic driven over an hour.

I used the 505 compressor with seasons blower and ripped out the stock blower. The seasons blower is wonderfully quiet at low and somewhat audible at medium and loud at high, but still about a factor of 2x quieter than the stock blower.

I am however quiet disappointed by the quality of crank double pulley supplied. It was an ordinary local workshop black paint job with signs of rust where the paint had chipped off. A spare pulley lying about in plastic packing was chipped off at the rims (shows the poor quality of forging). And it is quiet heavy - so much that I feel a drag in power when a/c is on and it is more pronounced when A/c blower is on max. Although I am not quiet sure if blower speed affects compressor and draws more power. In any case I feel there is much more resistance to rotations with this 3rd class jugaad pulley and the faith in my Gypsy that it will never breakdown on me in a remote place is now gone. I dont want to drive around to remote places with anxiety in the back of my mind.

Does a pulley fail? In what ways? I would like to replace it with a better made quality forging product. This one is blunt in rims and shallow in the grooves compared to original and of poorer metal and unduly heavy. And I don't know if it is well balanced.

This article tells me that just the pulley can result in loss of HP and serious damage to engine if unbalanced Underdrive pulleys - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Changing the original crankshaft pulley can have negative effects if the replacement pulley is not manufactured properly. A crankshaft or accessory pulley that is not machined or balanced properly can cause severe damage
I am now scared for my engine! If I express my fears to the vendor the stock response is likely going to be "I have supplied so many, nobody has ever complained..".A totally unscientific comment desi sellers always make to push back. As if they have done a scientific study from a statistically valid sample

Is the diameter of the esteem pulley the same as that of Gypsy? The original one seems to be about 14cm in diameter. What do you guys recommend?

PS: How do I set the timing marks on the pulley?

--Rahul

Last edited by Ragul : 14th June 2012 at 16:52.
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Old 15th June 2012, 12:07   #73
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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
I got the A/C job done about 7-8 days back.
======================
I am however quiet disappointed by the quality of crank double pulley supplied.
===================
Does a pulley fail? In what ways? I would like to replace it with a better made quality forging product. This one is blunt in rims and shallow in the grooves compared to original and of poorer metal and unduly heavy. And I don't know if it is well balanced.
===========
Is the diameter of the esteem pulley the same as that of Gypsy? The original one seems to be about 14cm in diameter. What do you guys recommend?

PS: How do I set the timing marks on the pulley?

--Rahul
Congratz! How do you know the pulley is bad, did you compare the old and new pulley. For me the weight diff was not much. Also the new pulley is different and has V shaped groove for the AC comp belt. Cannot use the flat grooved type belt (OE water belt design) for the AC since the AC pulley is different. Dia was exactly the same at alternator belt end.

Timing mark, you should have marked it when you removed the OE pulley. I had mentioned in my post also, none of the AC guys realize this since the newer electronic ignition or ECU cars doesn't need this adjustment frequently. Just keep the pulley's on top of each other (ensuring the bolt patterns and that lock stud are matching) and then cut a mark on the new pulley with blade.

Now the alternative is to use a dial gauge to find the TDC and mark it using a paint on the pulley.

Just a suggestion, try checking the AC belt tension, i have a feeling its too tight. They had done the same mistake, which i rectified bringing remarkable difference.

EDIT: Reg power loss, there will be minor loss when AC is ON, on the other hand this will be constant irrespective of AC blower position or temp setting. ie As long as compressor stays ON, the load will be same. On the other hand compressor will stay longer at cooler setting or faster blower setting. Rest is due the blower sound. In Spidey with a closed metal cabin it took me a while to get used to the different noises. With windows down it sounds like makhan and rolled up sounds like a tractor. So now i play the stereo to negate this. Sounds are irrespective of AC or not.

Last edited by Jaggu : 15th June 2012 at 12:13.
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Old 15th June 2012, 15:29   #74
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Congratz! How do you know the pulley is bad, did you compare the old and new pulley. For me the weight diff was not much. Also the new pulley is different and has V shaped groove for the AC comp belt. Cannot use the flat grooved type belt (OE water belt design) for the AC since the AC pulley is different. Dia was exactly the same at alternator belt end.

Timing mark, you should have marked it when you removed the OE pulley. I had mentioned in my post also, none of the AC guys realize this since the newer electronic ignition or ECU cars doesn't need this adjustment frequently. Just keep the pulley's on top of each other (ensuring the bolt patterns and that lock stud are matching) and then cut a mark on the new pulley with blade.

Now the alternative is to use a dial gauge to find the TDC and mark it using a paint on the pulley.

Just a suggestion, try checking the AC belt tension, i have a feeling its too tight. They had done the same mistake, which i rectified bringing remarkable difference.

EDIT: Reg power loss, there will be minor loss when AC is ON, on the other hand this will be constant irrespective of AC blower position or temp setting. ie As long as compressor stays ON, the load will be same. On the other hand compressor will stay longer at cooler setting or faster blower setting. Rest is due the blower sound. In Spidey with a closed metal cabin it took me a while to get used to the different noises. With windows down it sounds like makhan and rolled up sounds like a tractor. So now i play the stereo to negate this. Sounds are irrespective of AC or not.
Thanks. I did not notice the V-shaped groove. Neither does the compressor have v-shaped grooves. They are well rounded at the pit. I think the diameter of the stock pulley is 14cm approx. So you mean I can't exchange this one for a Esteem double pulley?

I dont know if its really bad, just being paranoid, after reading that warning on that wiki page, considering this pulley is local jugaad make.

The belt tension does feel very tight, I will ask to verify when I go back to fix the thermostat and switch.

I have a permanent silver marker I could use but that will involve removing the condensor and radiator now to match the holes. sigh!

--R
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Old 15th June 2012, 19:05   #75
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Jaggu: maybe you should educate as to how one should check the belt tension..

It's easy..
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