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Old 24th October 2011, 17:15   #16
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

^^ wow Doc - Finally you have bitten the bullet - Why not buy a new THAR instead? It is coming soon with AC shortly!!

Anyways - Good hobby for you
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Old 24th October 2011, 18:28   #17
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Bro, The prowler sets expectations high now and I'm thrilled to see the outcome.

hooked to this thread.
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Old 24th October 2011, 19:18   #18
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Sandeep,

The engine revving is a parameter of the engine design.

To convert that to road speed or acceleration the Differential Ratio comes into play.

Now what is the real benefit of an engine conversion? To get something different or something "powerful"

An engine can have have different Power/Torque characteristics, due to FIP tuning, AFAIK the XD3P have at least 4 different FIP setup depending on emission and vehicle application.

The biggest bit of misinformation is to suggest people to change engine, and talk about road feel and acceleration, when the OEM engines are good enough for the job and offer much better reliability and easier packing in the vehicle.

I have done one engine conversion in 2007,(Hino W04D to Nissan Patrol 4 Speed & 5 Speed gearbox) but have not fitted it to any vehicle because, I know there will be reliability issue considering the off-road scenario in Chennai.

wrt to the XD3P have your weighed both engines? Or are you just harping on Docs research?

I keep hearing a lot about Charminar Club JEEPs, but somehow they never show up at TPC.

Regards,

Arka
Arka, its not needed for 2 engines of the same size to have identical power out put. You use xd3p with 5.38 so that you get more torque at the wheels, but with sd25 it will give the same torque with 4.27 or max 4.88 itself + good range in all the gears.
FYI , xd3p never came in a low bonnet .It is as much as an alteration like the other engines.
With due respect to your alterations, people have done 100s of alterations in Hyd and all are running fine.
Twice to aavalakonda and twice to AKC we had alteast 2 alteration Jeeps with no issues, these terrains are also very demanding .
Even a 51" axle will do the job as well as IFS, so why 57"OKBJ and solid axle.

I am harping the same way you did when you quote the weight of SD25 and XD3P. Did you weigh the sd25 ?
I atleast said its got a similar weight to the Xd3p .
2012 TPC is the venue ., dooms day for xd3p.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Drjones - it is indeed nice to see someone take a keen interest in the SD25 / kiki pump. Please try the BD30 also, you will be blown away! It was in consideration for a lot of applications but then -----.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Behram Dhabhar , the BD30 is a very torquey engine,But it wont fit in the low bonnet .Cj3b its possible but a tight fit.

The local story for these engines is , mahindra imported kits to use them in the loadking, later abandoned the idea,so some kits are available to us for a price of 1L change.

Last edited by Frankenstein : 24th October 2011 at 19:20.
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Old 24th October 2011, 19:41   #19
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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2012 TPC is the venue ., dooms day for xd3p.
Franky: I like the open challenge you throw without being aware of what is in store

Lets see whether a SD25, RD28 or BD30 does any difference to the reigning champions. Or whether "your" team from hyderabad can make a difference..

No offense to any hyd jeepers

Many have come, many have gone.
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Old 24th October 2011, 19:53   #20
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Franky: I like the open challenge you throw without being aware of what is in store



Lets see whether a SD25, RD28 or BD30 does any difference to the reigning champions. Or whether "your" team from hyderabad can make a difference..

No offense to any hyd jeepers

Many have come, many have gone.
headers , i think i was issued a challenge first

When xd3p can do it , why not the other better ones.Very great effort by the this years winners, i salute them.

lets meet in 2012 TPC,
Pearl harbor attack is over and the Japs are rejoicing , little do they know whats next

Last edited by Frankenstein : 24th October 2011 at 19:55.
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Old 24th October 2011, 20:19   #21
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Question Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

This is & / +
But can anyone tell me what is BD 30

Trust me I dont know

Sudarshan
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Old 24th October 2011, 20:53   #22
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Hi Sudarshan,

The BD is an automotive diesel engine produced by Nissan Diesel. BD was specified as 4 cylinder, direct fuel injected, water cooled naturally aspirated engine. BD30 used by Nissan Motors and BMC (Turkey) for light trucks.
Specifications
100ps (74Kw) 3,800 rpm 22.0kgm (216Nm) 2,000 rpm 2953cc BD30 3.0 L Straight-4

Vehicles that were equipped

BD30 Nissan Atlas series H40 H41 1995 only BMC Levend (1990-2009)


Source - Wiki ;-)

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 26th October 2011 at 22:29.
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Old 24th October 2011, 21:51   #23
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Arka, its not needed for 2 engines of the same size to have identical power out put. You use xd3p with 5.38 so that you get more torque at the wheels, but with sd25 it will give the same torque with 4.27 or max 4.88 itself + good range in all the gears.
FYI , xd3p never came in a low bonnet .It is as much as an alteration like the other engines.
With due respect to your alterations, people have done 100s of alterations in Hyd and all are running fine.
Twice to aavalakonda and twice to AKC we had alteast 2 alteration Jeeps with no issues, these terrains are also very demanding .
Even a 51" axle will do the job as well as IFS, so why 57"OKBJ and solid axle.

I am harping the same way you did when you quote the weight of SD25 and XD3P. Did you weigh the sd25 ?
I atleast said its got a similar weight to the Xd3p .
2012 TPC is the venue . dooms day for xd3p.
Hi Sandeep,

What are the factors affecting power output ?

Torque & RPM

Torque will be dependent on the Displacement & Fueling.

RPM is dependent on the inherent engine design.

So considering an XD3P is 2498cc & SD25 is 2488cc, how much more power do you think the SD25 can generate(without Turbo-Charging)

They won't be generating more than 15-17Kgm MAX RPM

Are you suggesting that the SD25 generates 20-25Kgm torque?

Lets calculate the effect of Gearing. IIRC SD25 generates 16.5Kgm

1) 3.986 X 2.46 X 5.38 X 15.5Kgm (XD3P) = 52.75 X 15.5Kgm = 817.6Kgm

2) 3.986 X 2.46 X 4.88 X 16.5Kgm (SD25) = 47.8 X 16.5Kgm = 789Kgm

3) 3.986 X 2.46 X 4.27 X 16.5 (SD25) = 41.86 X 16.5Kgm = 690.8Kgm

wrt to weighing the SD25 & XD3P I have pulled and lifted a few engines, I felt the SD25 was considerably heavier.

wrt 51" CKKP vs 57" OKBJ there are many advantages
1) Better Turning Radius
2) Stronger Axles
3) Trouble Free Knuckles
4) Uprated TREs

Regards,

Arka
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Old 24th October 2011, 23:00   #24
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

Torque will be dependent on the Displacement & Fueling.

Stroke of the engine, flywheel weight etc also right?

Dr Jone,

Have you tried playing with the pump setting or after calibration nothing much has been touched? How about the head and the timing bit (just in case). Has it been doubly checked?
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Old 25th October 2011, 06:48   #25
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Stroke of the engine, flywheel weight etc also right?

Dr Jone,

Have you tried playing with the pump setting or after calibration nothing much has been touched? How about the head and the timing bit (just in case). Has it been doubly checked?
@Jaggu: Dr. Jones normally NEVER leaves anything to chance. You should look at his jeep / drive it to understand how one SHOULD maintain a jeep.

We are definitely going to witness a super duper jeep in the coming days with the SD25. Am sure he will post reviews after "THE DRAG", what say doc?
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Old 25th October 2011, 12:02   #26
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Thanks a lot Vikram for the encouragement. Iam honored it comes from a very seasoned ,knowledgeable off roader, friend and a team mate, thanks buddy.

Jaggu, you have a very important point, in fact just the re-re-re-calibration and the timing set up { 7 times to be exact } took us two whole days with 3 experienced mechanics and 2 pump mechanics from Mico Bosch. Finally I have taken the engine back with the old nozzles. Whats it about the pitting in the nozzle, do you have any idea about it? I feel I must have missed out something in it or the nozzle specs should be different with the Mico Bosch and Bosch Kiki.
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Old 25th October 2011, 12:14   #27
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Whats it about the pitting in the nozzle, do you have any idea about it? I feel I must have missed out something in it or the nozzle specs should be different with the Mico Bosch and Bosch Kiki.
Pitting in the nozzle is basically "oversized" holes than specification. Usually occurs in used injectors due to the bad quality of fuel. Avoid pitted injectors if possible as they are near their end of life!!

Usually brand new injectors do not have pitting. If the same injectors are used in a common rail setup, the failure would be obvious.

The best person to guide you in this is star_aqua of BODA fame!!
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Old 25th October 2011, 12:53   #28
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Default Nissan Sd25

Hi Doc,

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 25th October 2011, 14:59   #29
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Jaggu, you have a very important point, in fact just the re-re-re-calibration and the timing set up { 7 times to be exact } took us two whole days with 3 experienced mechanics and 2 pump mechanics from Mico Bosch. Finally I have taken the engine back with the old nozzles. Whats it about the pitting in the nozzle, do you have any idea about it? I feel I must have missed out something in it or the nozzle specs should be different with the Mico Bosch and Bosch Kiki.
I think the specs have already been put up by Arka so you should be able to compare the parameters of the engine with ideal spec. Pitting is already explained i suppose, and my understanding is also the same. Basically a case of damaged injector due to bad fuel or erosion over a period of time.

There should be a way to check the flow rate of the injectors and then see if the specs match? I think that should be a logical place to start, if you have ruled out pump calibration and timing.

Also a stupid suggestion, fuel lines etc??
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Old 25th October 2011, 17:11   #30
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Also a stupid suggestion, fuel lines etc??
If it is fuel lines, then how can they rectify by changing to old injectors?
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