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Old 27th October 2011, 11:06   #46
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Default Re: Pump

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Originally Posted by drjones View Post
Arka, all those things are fine, but, should everything become absolutely normal with the old injectors with the same settings?
Doc, if everything is absolutely normal with old injectors, then the injectors that is procured is FAULTY!!. Get both old and new injectors checked for dimensions. Any decent metrology lab should be able to do it for you
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Old 27th October 2011, 11:11   #47
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Default Re: Pump

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Originally Posted by drjones View Post
Arka, all those things are fine, but, should everything become absolutely normal with the old injectors with the same settings?

Hi Doc,

If the Timing Gear/Chain has play, then the engine timing will keep shuttling between Advance and Retard, the engine will fire, this is helped by the over-sized injector since they will be sending in larger quantities of fuel, thereby hiding the Timing Case(Gear/Chain/Runner) Problems.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 27th October 2011 at 11:13.
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Old 27th October 2011, 11:19   #48
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Default Re: Pump

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Doc,

If the Timing Gear/Chain has play, then the engine timing will keep shuttling between Advance and Retard, the engine will fire, this is helped by the over-sized injector since they will be sending in larger quantities of fuel, thereby hiding the Timing Case(Gear/Chain/Runner) Problems.

I agree on the above .

How does the engine rev with the old injectors. Is there any hunting when revved and let to idle?
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Old 27th October 2011, 11:29   #49
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Hi Doc,

Let me add one more often less noticed point. If the new & old injectors are same (assuming), then is the injector seat the same? For some engines, a new washer is specified between the injector and seating surface whenever a new injector is used. I do not know if SD25 has that as a recommended procedure, just thought of sharing this detail.

Spike
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Old 27th October 2011, 11:34   #50
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Default Re: Pump

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
I agree on the above .

How does the engine rev with the old injectors. Is there any hunting when revved and let to idle?
Hi Vikram,

I haven't faced the engine Hunting, but the Starting required long cranking and underload there was Black & Blue Smoke, causing a lot of confusion. After changing the timing Chain and Pump Hub Gear & Runner/Guide/tension Adjuster things improved drastically.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 27th October 2011 at 11:36.
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Old 27th October 2011, 14:30   #51
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Default Re: Pump

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Originally Posted by drjones View Post
Arka, all those things are fine, but, should everything become absolutely normal with the old injectors with the same settings?
Doc, please take note of Header's suggestion to contact star_aqua. This fellow has many good posts on this site and he works for Bosch.
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Old 28th October 2011, 00:47   #52
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Hi Doc, what is the injector opening pressure for the old injector and the new injector? are they same? and saw a pic which shows 100bar, was that for new one or old one?

and check for delivery rate once for old nozzle and once for new nozzle with the same pump rpm and for same duration. compare the quantity. both should be identical. since the old one is performing better, the new one should be set to same pressure as the old one.

change in the injector opening pressure will cause change in timing automatically.
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Old 28th October 2011, 09:00   #53
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

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Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post

change in the injector opening pressure will cause change in timing automatically.
Now if the standard pressure is say 135 atoms & I set it at 125 so does it mean that it will open fractionally in advance ?

also if I set it at little more then its retard ?

but I think lowering pressure will finally let in more fuel & cause smoke ,despite the advance its getting in timing , so what is a permissible deviation for injector pressure ? ( wrt standard )

Sudarshan
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Old 28th October 2011, 09:33   #54
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Doc, I drove Rohan's jeep last weekend who has the similar engine now running oh his 540.

The work is still not complete, but still it was far far refined than the xdp which he was previously running on.

All the best. Very good choice of engine.


Are you planning to turbo charge it?
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Old 28th October 2011, 12:17   #55
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Default

I think isuzu G1 is way better than a SD25.

For that matter any SOHC / DOHC will offer better control on fuel, power and engine tweaking..
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Old 28th October 2011, 13:27   #56
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Default Re: Prowler ' THE POCKET ROCKET '. Hit or Miss?

Thanks Spike, as you say , everytime new washers were used.
Arka, there is no significant play in the gears.
Mr.Star, the 100 bar was set for both the nozzles. I'll check for the delivery rate, it was not done.Thanks.
Thanks Beejay for the encouraging words.
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Old 28th October 2011, 14:21   #57
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Default Timing

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Originally Posted by drjones View Post
Thanks Spike, as you say , everytime new washers were used.
Arka, there is no significant play in the gears.
Mr.Star, the 100 bar was set for both the nozzles. I'll check for the delivery rate, it was not done.Thanks.
Thanks Beejay for the encouraging words.
Hi Doc,

How did you check the Timing Gears?

Were all the Timing case Gears were checked?

What about the timing chain?

Chain Tensioner?

What about the FIP Hub Gear?

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th October 2011, 14:00   #58
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Default Confusion regarding weight

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
SD25 is lighter by 15kgs.
Has more horsepower and torque than the xd3p.
You have no experience with sd25,
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
There are lot of misconceptions in this forum which many people laugh about but remain silent. For example the xd3p weight .
Franky, please take this post of mine as a positive criticism. This is not to pull you down or demean you in any way. With utmost respect to your experience with Jeeps in various configurations I would like to state something-

Please avoid advocating / stating facts / advising things which you are not absolutely clear of-- this leads to confusion. I was reading some of your posts in the other thread (post mentioned below), which contradicts your statement here that SD25 is lighter than XD3P. I personally, prefer not to dish out information which I am not 100% sure of or personally experienced-- this leads to misconceptions in the forum (as mentioned earlier by you above) and sometimes also lands people into precarious situations. I do not know how to be goodie goodie just in order to avoid speaking the truth. I hope you got my point, pardon me if this post offends you in any way, it is in good sense and for the betterment of our 4WD community. I know you will.

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post

Please dont listen to that heavy nonsense. Its slightly heavier to the XD3P but much lighter than the Di . Not many gurus here have practical experience with these engine s, hence the limited info.
OT- As now it is clear the Nissan engine is lighter, now please tell me what is the weight of MDI3200 engine?

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 30th October 2011 at 14:21. Reason: add info
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Old 30th October 2011, 21:29   #59
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Default Re: Confusion regarding weight

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Franky, please take this post of mine as a positive criticism. This is not to pull you down or demean you in any way. With utmost respect to your experience with Jeeps in various configurations I would like to state something-

Please avoid advocating / stating facts / advising things which you are not absolutely clear of-- this leads to confusion. I was reading some of your posts in the other thread (post mentioned below), which contradicts your statement here that SD25 is lighter than XD3P. I personally, prefer not to dish out information which I am not 100% sure of or personally experienced-- this leads to misconceptions in the forum (as mentioned earlier by you above) and sometimes also lands people into precarious situations. I do not know how to be goodie goodie just in order to avoid speaking the truth. I hope you got my point, pardon me if this post offends you in any way, it is in good sense and for the betterment of our 4WD community. I know you will.



OT- As now it is clear the Nissan engine is lighter, now please tell me what is the weight of MDI3200 engine?

Spike
Spike , genuine point raised .

OK here is my version , Generally while replacing engines a manual crane with chains is used .The other way is use a thick stick which requires brute strength. Now when ever an engine is lifted we cannot know the exact weight but can compare the weight to the other engines lifted by this method. So the point is we can tell with is heavier or lighter than which.The SD25 was similar to the xd3p, may be a slight difference , but here the xd3p was quoted of having a weight of 195kgs , but it was quite heavy than the hurricane .I did not know the criteria for measuring the engine weight . ie what all parts included .
Hence i quoted its slightly heavier.

When i suggested Doc the sd25 , it was not by google or just theory , i have used that Jeep offroad and on road.
You can make millions of pages with all the technical data in the world , but one drive is enough, every thing else can go to the garbage can.
Still , even now there is no comment from anyone who have used/use or experienced that engine , its like looking at the recipe and telling the taste of a dish .
IF you have ever looked in to the low bonnet hood, you can see that a 2.4L diesel is a tight fit .The commonly used 2.4L engines are the G1 and 307 .I suggested on what i drove , not by technical facts like its 100 grams lighter or has 2 bhp less. So still my record stands straight.
There were 100s of pages in the thar thread, all speculations, one test drive and everything ends.

Di engine is atleast 50 to 60kgs heavier than the Hurricane/Xd3p/G1 and sd25, i am not speaking about he mdi3200, but the older non turbo Di engines which are used widely in old Jeeps.

I too respect your engineer experience , i will have no clue about what you know about lot of stuff, but i swear you will have no clue of what i know too, i can tell the difference between a converted and original CJ5.

Lets wait for doc to complete the engine transplant and then comment/speculate or what ever.
Personally i dont care if it has 2 valves or 3, or for that matter any technical spec as long as it delivers good power when i drive it.

Last edited by Frankenstein : 30th October 2011 at 21:37.
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Old 30th October 2011, 22:43   #60
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Wink Re: Confusion regarding weight

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Lets wait for doc to complete the engine transplant and then comment/speculate or what ever.
Agree! My point was only regarding the weight.

Quote:
Spike , genuine point raised.
Thanks, I raise only "genuine" points.

Quote:
OK here is my version , Generally while replacing engines a manual crane with chains is used .The other way is use a thick stick which requires brute strength. Now when ever an engine is lifted we cannot know the exact weight but can compare the weight to the other engines lifted by this method. So the point is we can tell with is heavier or lighter than which.I did not know the criteria for measuring the engine weight . ie what all parts included .
Hence i quoted its slightly heavier.
Oh, now I know where the difference in weight arrived from-- the sticks were different (one short and one long)

Quote:
The SD25 was similar to the xd3p, may be a slight difference , but here the xd3p was quoted of having a weight of 195kgs , but it was quite heavy than the hurricane .
Ok.

Quote:
You can make millions of pages with all the technical data in the world , but one drive is enough, every thing else can go to the garbage can.
Agree somewhat.

Quote:
Still , even now there is no comment from anyone who have used/use or experienced that engine , its like looking at the recipe and telling the taste of a dish .
LOL, typical Hyderabadi foodie!

Quote:
IF you have ever looked in to the low bonnet hood, you can see that a 2.4L diesel is a tight fit .The commonly used 2.4L engines are the G1 and 307
Can't comment on the G1 and 307.

Quote:
There were 100s of pages in the thar thread, all speculations, one test drive and everything ends.
Let us not digress from the topic here (weight). For Thar, there is a dedicated thread we can carry on the "discussion" there.


Quote:
So still my record stands straight.
Not really.

Quote:
Di engine is atleast 50 to 60kgs heavier than the Hurricane/Xd3p/G1 and sd25, i am not speaking about he mdi3200, but the older non turbo Di engines which are used widely in old Jeeps.
You mean the inline FIP ones (BS-I) ?

Quote:
I too respect your engineer experience , i will have no clue about what you know about lot of stuff, but i swear you will have no clue of what i know too, i can tell the difference between a converted and original CJ5.
Yeah agree, heard and seen a lot about Hyderabadi craftsmanship (they even make a converted one look like original). Franky, I had mentioned in my previous post itself, I do not intend to question your experience or credibility. Just that I find there is lots of incorrect information floating around the forum, which might sometimes confuse novices.

Quote:
Personally i dont care if it has 2 valves or 3, or for that matter any technical spec as long as it delivers good power when i drive it.
Fully agree!

Spike
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