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Old 12th December 2011, 21:17   #31
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Thar/Gypsy competitor? That's such a super-niche segment that I am surprised that Tatas are spending effort on this.

On a lighter note: nobody expects "reliability" from vehicles in that segment. So Tatas would definitely feel at home.
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Old 12th December 2011, 21:21   #32
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

The simple Landy which began life as a first class utility vehicle has now become the preserve of the wealthy, at least here in India.
Since Tata owns it now, I think they should consider offering a base version here at a fair price for the utility conscious and budget conscious buyer.
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Old 13th December 2011, 09:54   #33
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Guys, I do not know about the dies, but the winger looks like a straight lift from the Merc MB 100/1000 series,
Winger is a first generation Renault Traffic and not MB 100.
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Old 13th December 2011, 16:35   #34
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Dear all - hello guys after quite some time. First of all, now that news is out in the open that I work for Tata Motors, let me accept it in all humility. Yes, I work in the Engineering Research Center of Tata Motors in Pimpri - Pune, as General Manager and Head of Vehicle Evaluation and Testing for all Passenger Cars, MUVs and SUVs. As I had said before also (when I used to work at M&M), I still have the best job in the world. I test cars for a living. What more could I ask for! My team here at Tata Motors consists of young people with immense talent, also having very good "KASS", which is short form for Knowledge / Attitude / Skills / Strategies. We work hard and we play harder! Life's wonderful! .

Dear Mr. "Pratikraveesh" - (I wonder what this handle means!) I wonder what made you start this thread. Thanks anyways! Believe you me, I have never even thought on the lines that you mention, and that's completely true. With the kind of work which I do everyday, I don't even have time to think on these lines any more. I did Thar as a small part of my job at M&M and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a successful platform strategy based project, which culminated in a wonderful vehicle. I wish M&M all the very best with it. I know, that very shortly, it will do the monthly volume which I had forecast it would do, then I'll be really happy. By the way, Thar celebrates its first birthday on 21 December. It's been one year since launch. .

Dear all once again - let me put some thoughts across. You will appreciate that it takes much more than reviving a Sierra to launch a successful "common platform strategy" based product these days. When the Sierra got born (1992), things were different. Today, everything is new. Every day is a new challenge. The customer is at the pinnacle of the value delivery chain and he does not give anybody a second chance. There is always a compteitor out there, waiting to sell him a better product. So, in this fiercely competitive and corporatized environment which excites me so much, you are either there, or you are history. That's it. With this in mind, I suggest, let us use this thread to let our thoughts flow on the lines of a "Product / Platform Strategy" based discussion. It can only give a positive result because we shall all learn new things. Due to time constraint, my contribution level may vary (I actually typed this reply on my laptop on the way home yesterday night as the net gave up on me in the car, I am just copying and pasting it now).

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 13th December 2011, 17:55   #35
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Congratulations Sir for the great job! We envy you!
Here's wishing you an eminently successful and satisfying tenure!

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Dear all once again - let me put some thoughts across. You will appreciate that it takes much more than reviving a Sierra to launch a successful "common platform strategy" based product these days. When the Sierra got born (1992), things were different.
But didn't Sierra too result from a "common platform strategy"? It shared its platform with Tatamobile/Estate/Sumo and finally Safari.

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Today, everything is new. Every day is a new challenge. The customer is at the pinnacle of the value delivery chain and he does not give anybody a second chance. There is always a compteitor out there, waiting to sell him a better product. So, in this fiercely competitive and corporatized environment which excites me so much, you are either there, or you are history. That's it.
That's true. Indian customers are now spoilt for choice.

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
With this in mind, I suggest, let us use this thread to let our thoughts flow on the lines of a "Product / Platform Strategy" based discussion. It can only give a positive result because we shall all learn new things.
What's keeping Tata from exploiting the X1 platform fully? We've had only two versions so far, the Vista and Manza. The platform is capable of a lot more, isn't it? Internationally, it is not uncommon for manufacturers to launch several versions at the same time.
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Old 13th December 2011, 21:59   #36
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I did Thar as a small part of my job at M&M and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a successful platform strategy based project, which culminated in a wonderful vehicle. I wish M&M all the very best with it.
Just a question Boss. Were you involved with the development of XUV 5OO too. Because the project kick off would have been during your M&M days. If so kindly share your experience with us. Regards.

Last edited by rajeev k : 13th December 2011 at 22:02.
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Old 13th December 2011, 23:44   #37
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Thar costs 6.3 exshow and Gypsy costs 6 lacs exshow. If going by the school of thought that Merlin will be placed below safari, They could launch a bare bones merlin with 4X4 for 6.5 lacs exshow. This should be good piece of machinery at lucratve prices.
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Old 14th December 2011, 00:03   #38
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Taking up on BD's suggestion, to ideate on Product / Platform Strategy ...

If one were to pick up a key success factor in the Thar's armory, I would say it's pep / power-to-weight ratio never ceases to amaze people, who usually have less-than-overwhelming memories of their acceleration experiences in M&M vehicles.

Extending this thread of thought to TATA Motors, could their 2.2 DICOR find a home in a significantly lighter vehicle (than the Aria / Safari / Grande / Xenon where it currently resides) ?

The lightest chassis based vehicle in their range that I can think of, is the Ace. Or it's bigger brother and cousin, the Super Ace and Venture.

Can something be done with this platform and the 2.2 DICOR ? Something in the mould of a compact UV / SUV ? With aggressive styling like the Nissan Juke or the Ford Ecosport that appeared on the front page of a recent ACI ?

Even cheaper and quicker might be to take a short wheelbase Xenon (which already houses the 2.2 DICOR), give it enclosed body work after the B pillar, instead of the pickup bed, and voila ... New Sierra !!!

140PS pushing around 1400kg or less should = FUN.

Cheers,

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Old 14th December 2011, 05:34   #39
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Guys, I do not know about the dies, but the winger looks like a straight lift from the Merc MB 100/1000 series, not the renault one. I will try to locate and post the Merc vehicles which i have posted myself on T-BHP.
Before locating that take a look at these pictures.courtesy www
The Renault Trafic was also sold as Opel Arena
Attached Images
    

Last edited by rajeev k : 14th December 2011 at 05:39.
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Old 15th December 2011, 11:27   #40
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

BTW did any one noticed the 4x4 badge on the blue Renault Traffic.

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Old 15th December 2011, 12:17   #41
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Yes, I work in the Engineering Research Center of Tata Motors in Pimpri - Pune, as General Manager and Head of Vehicle Evaluation and Testing for all Passenger Cars, MUVs and SUVs.
DB sir, is it testing only, or - how much overlap is there with development ? Or is it the same ?

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Dear Mr. "Pratikraveesh" - (I wonder what this handle means!)
Pratik + Raveesh ? Raveesh Pratik ?
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Old 15th December 2011, 12:31   #42
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Arrow Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

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Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
BTW did any one noticed the 4x4 badge on the blue Renault Traffic. ...
The Renault Trafic was available in 4X4 as well.
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Old 15th December 2011, 13:31   #43
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
.......With this in mind, I suggest, let us use this thread to let our thoughts flow on the lines of a "Product / Platform Strategy" based discussion. .....
Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Wishlist - A Tata, well put together and built to last like a Toyota, at a Tata price.

If that can be achieved then the below would be nice to have.

1. Functional design with 4 doors decent seats and a proper roof.
2. Sumo like ground clearance.
3.Dicor 2.2 engine or better.
4. 4x4 with low ratio(like the Safari) and LSD.
5. 17" rims.
6. Class leading ride quality.
7. Basic creature comforts of todays age - HVAC + Ps + Central looking and power windows.
8. Not as heavy as a Sumo wrestler.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 15th December 2011 at 13:35.
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Old 15th December 2011, 14:16   #44
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Dear Fourwheeldrift / Jaysmokesleaves - You are both absolutely correct but these are the broad outlines / starting comments. Can we get a little more specific? Model by model? You may consider mentioning separate comments for following domestic models:

Nano (petrol)
Indica (diesel / petrol / CNG)
Indigo (diesel / petrol / CNG)
Vista (diesel / petrol)
Manza (diesel / petrol)
Sumo / Grande / Safari / Aria (all diesel)

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 15th December 2011, 14:28   #45
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Default Re: Tata motors coming up with Thar / Gypsy competitor

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Fourwheeldrift / Jaysmokesleaves - You are both absolutely correct but these are the broad outlines / starting comments. Can we get a little more specific? Model by model? You may consider mentioning separate comments for following domestic models:

Nano (petrol)
Indica (diesel / petrol / CNG)
Indigo (diesel / petrol / CNG)
Vista (diesel / petrol)
Manza (diesel / petrol)
Sumo / Grande / Safari / Aria (all diesel)

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar


As a Safari 4x4 owner, I can give you feedback related to the current 2.2 Safari. The biggest problem with this vehicle is that the whole thing feels like a Jugaad, and not a well engineered vehicle.
For example, every 4x4 owner I have spoken to, has needed to get the LSD kit/read diff bearings etc., replaced within 50-60K kms.
The steering system is a pain too. If you drive less than perfect roads, you have to keep getting the center pin greased/replaced.
The camber keeps going out if you do bad roads extensively, and the tie rod feel that they were designed for a vehicle with half the weight.
The suspension, steering and drivetrain feels like an afterthought. Its just there. Nobody really bothered about longevity and durability during design. Hopefully, with proper testing there will be some improvement in next gen safari, and it will be more of a vehicle and less of a jugaad.

So while looking at new smaller 4x4s is a good thing, what Tata should not forget is that they have an existing 4x4 product portfolio which is subpar when it comes to quality and execution.

And its not the first time this has happened. Most of the 3.0L owners on the forum had the cam sensor issue. Did nobody test that?

Most, if not all, 2.2 owners have had issues with timing kit and timing belt. People have gotten stranded due to premature failure of timing belt. A retro was ordered, but was the testing team sleeping?

So many owners have had service light issues(me included), and again, if so many customers got this issue in there cars, what was the testing team doing.

If most of the testing has to be done at customers end, Tata may as well lay off all the test team, and decrease prices with money saved.
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