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Old 20th January 2012, 23:26   #1
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Default Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Hello to all Jeepsters

I would like to know your views on the Mahindra Classic that is in the pictures below.

The current owner states that its a 1975 Model and has the original engine sealed but in 4X2 . I was wondering is it possible?

I would be visiting the jeep in person tomorrow and will have more pictures. If any one of you can enlighten me on the History of Classic i would be grateful.

Regards

P.S Mods please move the thread if i have posted it in the wrong section.
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Last edited by Acclero : 20th January 2012 at 23:27. Reason: Addition of P.S
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Old 20th January 2012, 23:59   #2
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Hi Accelro, are you sure it's 1975 Classic? The Mahindra Classic or the CL 340 was introduced post 90's and i believe stopped production by 1996. 1975 has to be a jeep CJ, with a hurricane (petrol) engine. Not much sure about the 4x2 though.
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Old 21st January 2012, 00:34   #3
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercLover View Post
Hi Accelro, are you sure it's 1975 Classic? The Mahindra Classic or the CL 340 was introduced post 90's and i believe stopped production by 1996. 1975 has to be a jeep CJ, with a hurricane (petrol) engine. Not much sure about the 4x2 though.

That was my exact doubt i do know for a fact that the classic was in production in the late 90's so there is something fishy about it and also from the pics of the classic i have seen on the internet the Fuel tank cap is on the wrong side of the jeep here. Which would point out that it may be a Cj340 or Dp340. Couldn't confirm this by my self so posted it here for others to comment on this.
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Old 21st January 2012, 01:04   #4
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

The classic is in such demand that I have seen some people cut the 500D chassis and make it the classic. The papers are too easy to come by.

I'd advice you to take caution, and know the history of the machine well, before you even think of buying a classic.
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Old 21st January 2012, 03:25   #5
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Exclamation re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclero View Post
Hello to all Jeepsters

I would like to know your views on the Mahindra Classic that is in the pictures below.

The current owner states that its a 1975 Model and has the original engine sealed but in 4X2 . I was wondering is it possible?

I would be visiting the jeep in person tomorrow and will have more pictures. If any one of you can enlighten me on the History of Classic i would be grateful.

Regards

P.S Mods please move the thread if i have posted it in the wrong section.
Dear

To my little knowledge this is not at all a classic ( The classic era is 1996 to 2000 and till 2002 only for export),The main thing to be noticed is
dashboard(especially the indicator lights) which is different from a classic.

This is very well done to look like a Classic.
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Old 21st January 2012, 07:31   #6
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

I can bet my life this is definitely not a classic as there were no classic in 70's. Lot of jeeps in hyderabad were converted to look alike as classic when they were in production moreover the dash board is from a MM540, the classic dash board is distinctive and not that easy to find like the wheels.

Which engine is running this fella, if you are keen to buy this then consider all the aspects (4x2, fitness, docs, no of owner ships, body condition MOST IMPORTANT and then take a step).

This is the time when a normal jeep is also becoming tough in Hyderabad and we are talking about Classic

All the best Accelero.
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Old 21st January 2012, 08:01   #7
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

  1. Check the chassis number of CL340 DP/4WD starts with CL340DPCLS4....
  2. It has suspended pedals for gas, break and clutch (Other jeeps will have floor mounted system)
  3. Front wheel - Disc break
  4. Cock pit like dash board with colorful indicator lights
  5. Seat belts on the rollover bar
  6. Idling speed switch on the dash board
  7. Right to left wiper arms
  8. Front rear spacers with a carving for small side indicator (the smallest side indicator than in any jeep)
  9. Front tow hook on the right side
  10. Side view mirrors (OVRM) setup from front of windshield with 4 screw mount each side, inside of the 4 wholes in windshield protected with a rectangle metal plate for extra support. (Not seen in any other CJ3B variants)
  11. Company fitted bucket seats
  12. Ignition key on the steering column with steering lock
  13. Lamda free wheeling hubs as seen in the Maruti Gypsy
  14. Center mounted spare wheel brackets on the tail gate (all other Mahindra models to have it on one side of the door)
  15. The Emergency break or the Parking break on center of body tub between passenger and driver seats.
  16. A prominent logo on the sides of bonnet saying “CLASSIC" and 4x4 on both the sides of rear of body tub
  17. The diesel tank got a fancy cap which had 5 distinct circle kind of design and it was made in France
I got these from here http://mahindraclassic.blogspot.com/...a-classic.html

Last edited by binu balan : 21st January 2012 at 08:08.
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Old 21st January 2012, 08:03   #8
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Accelero,

This
is definitely not a Classic.

As all have already mentioned its production started only in the mid 90's and ended in a couple of years.

Was the Classic ever produced in a 4X2 variant?

Except the unoriginal CLASSIC badge on the hood sides, all else says its a pretender.
Regards,
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Old 21st January 2012, 10:25   #9
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Acclero, it is a wannabe classic and not original. Binu's post clearly outlines things to look out for in an original Classic. You say it is 4x2, is the front propeller shaft removed or it does not have front axle, transfer case etc ?

Spike
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Old 21st January 2012, 14:55   #10
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by binu balan View Post
  1. Check the chassis number of CL340 DP/4WD starts with CL340DPCLS4....
  2. It has suspended pedals for gas, break and clutch (Other jeeps will have floor mounted system)
  3. Front wheel - Disc break
  4. Cock pit like dash board with colorful indicator lights
  5. Seat belts on the rollover bar
  6. Idling speed switch on the dash board
  7. Right to left wiper arms
  8. Front rear spacers with a carving for small side indicator (the smallest side indicator than in any jeep)
  9. Front tow hook on the right side
  10. Side view mirrors (OVRM) setup from front of windshield with 4 screw mount each side, inside of the 4 wholes in windshield protected with a rectangle metal plate for extra support. (Not seen in any other CJ3B variants)
  11. Company fitted bucket seats
  12. Ignition key on the steering column with steering lock
  13. Lamda free wheeling hubs as seen in the Maruti Gypsy
  14. Center mounted spare wheel brackets on the tail gate (all other Mahindra models to have it on one side of the door)
  15. The Emergency break or the Parking break on center of body tub between passenger and driver seats.
  16. A prominent logo on the sides of bonnet saying “CLASSIC" and 4x4 on both the sides of rear of body tub
  17. The diesel tank got a fancy cap which had 5 distinct circle kind of design and it was made in France
I got these from here Mahindra Classic: Indentifying Mahindra Classic
Dear Binu Balan - you have correctly listed what is there in your "CL340 Classic". However, please note that there was a model called "CJ340" which was in production from 1990, then its name got changed to CL340 in 1995 and your vehicle, the CL340 Classic was introduced in 1997. The CL340 had floor mounted brake and clutch pedals and it also had the original 5.38:1 axle ratio. It did not have disc brakes or brake booster. The CL340 classic had suspended brake and clutch pedals, and it had the 4.88:1 axle ratio instead of the 5.38:1 axle ratio. It had disc brakes in the front with booster.

In my opinion, the REAL REAL JEEP is still the "original" CJ/CL340 with 5.38:1 axle ratio. Nothing beats it offroad. Period. It is a veritable mountain goat. By the way, I had one of these, purchased brand new from Kandivli plant on 03 January 1995. It was MH01P8300. I sold it after exactly one year and I am still regretting my decision.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 23rd January 2012, 22:42   #11
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanu View Post
I can bet my life this is definitely not a classic as there were no classic in 70's. Lot of jeeps in hyderabad were converted to look alike as classic when they were in production moreover the dash board is from a MM540, the classic dash board is distinctive and not that easy to find like the wheels.

Which engine is running this fella, if you are keen to buy this then consider all the aspects (4x2, fitness, docs, no of owner ships, body condition MOST IMPORTANT and then take a step).

This is the time when a normal jeep is also becoming tough in Hyderabad and we are talking about Classic

All the best Accelero.
Hello Bala Bhai, Well i had a look at the vehicle and NO its not a classic! (Well i knew that much after drooling over all the pictures on T-bhp ) It is a CJ3B which has been modified to look like this.
Hmm i guess you are right i have been searching for almost an year now for a Jeep but all i could find was a mix and mash of vehicles with engines transplanted , chassis cut away Etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binu balan View Post
  1. Check the chassis number of CL340 DP/4WD starts with CL340DPCLS4....
  2. It has suspended pedals for gas, break and clutch (Other jeeps will have floor mounted system)
  3. Front wheel - Disc break
  4. Cock pit like dash board with colorful indicator lights
  5. Seat belts on the rollover bar
  6. Idling speed switch on the dash board
  7. Right to left wiper arms
  8. Front rear spacers with a carving for small side indicator (the smallest side indicator than in any jeep)
  9. Front tow hook on the right side
  10. Side view mirrors (OVRM) setup from front of windshield with 4 screw mount each side, inside of the 4 wholes in windshield protected with a rectangle metal plate for extra support. (Not seen in any other CJ3B variants)
  11. Company fitted bucket seats
  12. Ignition key on the steering column with steering lock
  13. Lamda free wheeling hubs as seen in the Maruti Gypsy
  14. Center mounted spare wheel brackets on the tail gate (all other Mahindra models to have it on one side of the door)
  15. The Emergency break or the Parking break on center of body tub between passenger and driver seats.
  16. A prominent logo on the sides of bonnet saying “CLASSIC" and 4x4 on both the sides of rear of body tub
  17. The diesel tank got a fancy cap which had 5 distinct circle kind of design and it was made in France
I got these from here Mahindra Classic: Indentifying Mahindra Classic
Thank you for the information!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Binu Balan - you have correctly listed what is there in your "CL340 Classic". However, please note that there was a model called "CJ340" which was in production from 1990, then its name got changed to CL340 in 1995 and your vehicle, the CL340 Classic was introduced in 1997. The CL340 had floor mounted brake and clutch pedals and it also had the original 5.38:1 axle ratio. It did not have disc brakes or brake booster. The CL340 classic had suspended brake and clutch pedals, and it had the 4.88:1 axle ratio instead of the 5.38:1 axle ratio. It had disc brakes in the front with booster.

In my opinion, the REAL REAL JEEP is still the "original" CJ/CL340 with 5.38:1 axle ratio. Nothing beats it offroad. Period. It is a veritable mountain goat. By the way, I had one of these, purchased brand new from Kandivli plant on 03 January 1995. It was MH01P8300. I sold it after exactly one year and I am still regretting my decision.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Ok i need some time for the feeling to sink in MR.BEHRAM DHABHAR has actually posted on my thread! The Grand Daddy of Jeeps as most people call him. I am thankful sir and respect your view.

But i am really sorry that you sold the 340! I have read some where that you still have your AX100!

Regards
Acclero
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Old 23rd January 2012, 23:31   #12
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acclero View Post
It is a CJ3B which has been modified to look like this.
Hey Acclero,

If its a genuine CJ3B, then you can tear off the classic badging and reliably use/restore it as a genuine CJ3B. The off-road performance of these SWB Jeeps are just awesome. (Provided you get it at the right price, not the 'classic' price)

Buuutttttt.... I doubt if its even a CJ3B, as I think the fuel tank lid in a CJ3B is somewhere in the middle, and in the above Jeep, its at the back, like the 500D.

So, most probably this is a 'cut'-chassis Jeep, as they call it, which IMO, is just scrap with the chassis cut and weld.

Last edited by dhanushs : 23rd January 2012 at 23:33.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 23:37   #13
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Hey Acclero,

If its a genuine CJ3B, then you can tear off the classic badging and reliably use/restore it as a genuine CJ3B. The off-road performance of these SWB Jeeps are just awesome. (Provided you get it at the right price)

Buuutttttt.... I doubt if its even a CJ3B, as I think the fuel tank lid in a CJ3B is somewhere in the middle, and in the above Jeep, its at the back, like the 500D.

So, most probably this is a 'cut'-chassis Jeep, as they call it, which IMO, is just scrap with the chassis cut and weld.
The registration papers show the Chassis number starting with a CJ3B and year as 1975. It seems to have a IDI international engine but it is missing a 4x4. So that is the part where i am confused even with the international engine a 4x4 was standard for most of the jeeps as far as i can remember. The price he is quoting for this is somewhere around 2.15L . The fuel tank is something which has me totally confused after your comment. I will try to search and spot the differences.
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Old 24th January 2012, 09:22   #14
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Binu Balan - you have correctly listed what is there in your "CL340 Classic". However, please note that there was a model called "CJ340" which was in production from 1990, then its name got changed to CL340 in 1995 and your vehicle, the CL340 Classic was introduced in 1997. The CL340 had floor mounted brake and clutch pedals and it also had the original 5.38:1 axle ratio. It did not have disc brakes or brake booster. The CL340 classic had suspended brake and clutch pedals, and it had the 4.88:1 axle ratio instead of the 5.38:1 axle ratio. It had disc brakes in the front with booster.

In my opinion, the REAL REAL JEEP is still the "original" CJ/CL340 with 5.38:1 axle ratio. Nothing beats it offroad. Period. It is a veritable mountain goat. By the way, I had one of these, purchased brand new from Kandivli plant on 03 January 1995. It was MH01P8300. I sold it after exactly one year and I am still regretting my decision.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Hello DB/Binu Balan,

The blog post mentioned here is mine, Those information were pieces collected from internet and validated with my original Classic.

I do agree about the CJ340 being the best offroader, but it still lack the onroad speed. At least in countries like India where we don't have flat bed trailers commonly used to transporting vehicles from place a to b.

Now considering that fact and having a original classic with 4.88 diff ratio, I would like to know if we mount XD3P replacing the XDP4.99 compensate the power requirement ? (Thinking that Thar could do all the on / off road magics due to the sheer engine power even with diff ratios much suited for road travel)

I had that combination in my Classic for a while and found much better performance, adding to that I also on boarded a Overdrive to my KMT-90 gearbox to boost my on road performance. Hence on and offroad was really fun. (As an update currently my jeep runs with stock settings and I have got my OD rebuild by Herm and ready to travel to India any time so it will once again deployed into my Classic, I will also keep looking for a brand new XD3P or at least decent shape XD3P from newer model Bolero or 550s to reach what I would like to call the golden time of my Explorer)

Acclero,

The Jeep shown in this page is not a Classic. You may also wanted to dig my "Jeeping Exercise" thread to see how I have identified my Explorer (Mahindra Classic)

Last edited by trammway : 24th January 2012 at 09:23.
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Old 24th January 2012, 11:47   #15
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Default re: Need Help in Identifying this Jeep? EDIT : It's a fake Classic

Quote:
Originally Posted by trammway View Post
Hello DB - I do agree about the CJ340 being the best offroader, but it still lack the onroad speed. Now considering that fact and having a original classic with 4.88 diff ratio, I would like to know if we mount XD3P replacing the XDP4.99 compensate the power requirement? Acclero
Dear Trammway - hello after a long time. To answer your question, with 5.38:1, my company owned 1994 model R&D prototype CJ340 vehicle MH01P2540 was a classic pain to drive on the road. The vehicle would strain to run at any speed above 80 kmph. Therefore, I had my driver endure all the long journeys from Worli Mumbai (where the vehicle was based) to all the Great Escape locations throughout India. I had the luxury of flying down and getting picked up at the airport. .

But once offroad, it was like Wow! The vehicle was in a class of its own. On the 12th of July 1998, alongwith a white Commander Hard Top 4WD MH15K2572 (driven by my colleague Gavin Hurtis) and MH01P2540 with me driving, we must have pulled out at least 30 vehicles which were badly stuck in a 400 meter stretch of terrain during the Great Escape at Silvassa, in pouring rain. This was the most treacherous Great Escape we have ever done. We returned to our hotel at 9 in the night instead of 2 in the afternoon. MH01P2540 still holds the record of never being stuck anywhere! I must have done more than 50 Great Escapes. Most of them were cakewalks for it but Silvassa was something which I shall never forget. That last hill, which Gavin said he would winch me out of, which I refused and then climbed under its own power in 4WD low 3rd gear / 2nd gear was a sheer delight which I shall never forget. What do you expect a mountain goat to do when confronted with a terrain it excels in?

The end result - not even a Classic with 4.88:1 can match the old CJ340 with 5.38:1. If you have the XD3P in the old 340, then it will be the ultimate mountain goat that you can have but the cooling system will need to be upgraded.

I have only two pictures of MH01P2540 which I am uploading. That's me standing with the door open. This picture was taken in Rajasthan in 1997. It was the olny vehicle to cross all dunes thrown at it. The second picture was taken in Goa in 1998 where it decimated every obstacle in sight. I purposely passed through the water so the TV crews could take pictures.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 24th January 2012 at 11:50. Reason: add info
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