Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd February 2012, 19:39   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
jaysmokesleaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mostly Mumbai
Posts: 1,672
Thanked: 1,143 Times
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Jay,

Perhaps you should speak to Allan Almeida, of Sara Extreme 4x4 ( xtremepower ). I believe he's also based out of Mumbai, and has worked on the Scorpio, which also has IFS.

He may have some workable ideas for you..
Yes, I had spoken to Allan a long time ago, when it was a thought in my head. A proper discussion with him is pending. Sometime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Bro

The stuff from Italy isn't cheap, so find other sources. Your front suspension is a torsion bar - get a stronger torsion bar that can fit from the likes of ARB/Ironman/Dobinsons and raise it to the max. That will give you the front lift. The rear is coil, so that shouldn't be a problem.

The differentials are Dana 44s, so sourcing a suitable air-locker should be possible.

This is all speculation, though. These are plans I made for my 3.0 before it hit a 100k kms and I sold it - in retrospect I think I should've kept it.

If you need any help with the torsion bars or the air lockers, just PM me and I will see what I can do. You're coming to DXB anyway in March and we can take a good look around.

I have a lot of faith in this vehicle's ability to take abuse, because I did not spare mine any.
After having put my Safari through a lot of offroad actio, I and quite confident of its abilities with some upgrades.

I wondering if the Ironman lift kit for the Endeavour will fit the Safari, esp the front torsion bars.
See you in the last week of March. Thanks for offering assistance. Appreciate is bro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
......
Anyway, a lift on the Safari will lead to a lot of roll. You will necessarily have to upgrade your shocks too.
Front diff is a Dana 30, by the way.
A lift on any SUV will lead to a lot of roll. Correct me if im wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The problem with the front end is not just the suspension. The weak link is the steering. Even with trail driving(extensive trail driving), you have center pin, or steering cross failures after a few thousand kms.
Changing the center pin every 10-25K is a norm in safaris driven continuously on rough terrain.
This steering system is simply not designed to take abuse. The Merlin fixes this issue, but the current 2.2, the steering is a pain.
another issue is that the Dana 30 front axle is not that durable, esp with a heavy front end. Dana 44 at rear is pretty tough, and you can take out the LSD kit(which anyways goes kaput after 60-70K) and fit in a locker. Raising the rear is also not an issue.
But a front raised safari as a daily driver with reliability required in remote places... that will be a tough thing.

Tanveer, the steering might be weak but not as bad as you make it sound. I had the idler arm changed once. My truck just crosses 80k. Ive not had steering issues until now.
And you bet my truck has seen some really bad off the road action.

Can you explain what you mean by - front axle is not that durable, esp with a heavy front end - I cant quite understand.

I am considering fitting a locker at the rear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Not with the right set of springs/t-bars (and of course shocks - I have very high regard for the new FoamCell Shocks from Ironman here). You get very good constant-load springs/bars that can maintain composure.

Sorry about the Front Diff info, yes its a 30. As long as its a Dana you can find lockers for it, but I'd rather put lockers onto a 44 - the center is locked anyway, a rear lock will help matters.

These are not things people havent done before, so Jay isnt really going to be beating a lonely path. He can always touch base with the Italians (mpescatori and co?) for guidance, even if their components are expensive.
Well Im determined to pull this off. Its something that I wanted to do for a long time.
It makes no sense buying another vehicle - jeep/gypsy/pajero etc and then modifying it.
I find the jeep and gypsy too crude. They excel offroad but cant make decent daily drivers and arent mile munchers on the highway either.
Buying a used Pajero and then modifying it is an expensive proposition.
Im pretty happy with the Safari fro what its worth.
Fixing issues that may crop up is equivalent to that may be encountered in any other modified vehicle.

And I really dont intend buying a single expensive Italian part. I wouldnt mind the expertise assistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endeavour333 View Post
Body lift will not give you increased ground clearance by any measure unless you install bigger tyres.....
I wish you the best of luck in modifying your Safari! Maybe we will meet up one day with our beastly machines on an offroad trail

Look at some of the videos I have posted in that thread for te articulation now possible
I have followed your entire thread up until now and seen all the videos you posted. Its a nice learning experience as you tread the path of modifying your vehicle.
Im hoping the Ironman kit fits the Safari. It would solve a lot of my troubles.
I dont think finding and installing the tires will be a problem. Those are on the cards anyways.
Getting the suspension and the body lift right is the primary challenge. Then the steering.
The Spider box or a remap is definitely on the cards. The extra power is much needed to move those fat MT tires post the upgrade.

DOes Ironman also sell body lift kits?

Thanks for the best wishes. Hopefully we will meet somewhere off the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Don't get me wrong guys, the above reasons, are precisely why I am suggesting that Safari is not a platform that you make into souped up 4x4 platform like a Pajero or Defender, Wrangler etc. There are too many weak links in the chain that will get you stranded...
Stranded I doubt. It will take some learning and corrections to get it right(reference to weak links) And once the project is on, Im sure the advice and views pouring in from all of you will help in that direction.

Unlike the countless examples of Jeep and Gypsy mods available as reference on this forum, this Safari project might serve as a reference to those interested. I intend to update this thread all the way beyond the upgrade.

Please continue to pour your views and ideas.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 23rd February 2012 at 19:42.
jaysmokesleaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2012, 23:23   #17
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,852
Thanked: 15,406 Times
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

By front axle I mean dana 30. More strain on this can lead to problems. In stock form its sufficient.
That said, I have heard that export models use tie rods of different spec, which sort out many problems in the safari.
And if you do manage to find manual hubs, do let me know too!
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2012, 23:20   #18
AVR
BHPian
 
AVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 929
Thanked: 511 Times
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Please continue to pour your views and ideas.
Thought I'd point you to these guys I found on FB:

Link

They have done a 2 inch lift on the Xenon so should be of help!

Cheers,
Adi
AVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2015, 12:46   #19
BHPian
 
pedrolourenco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Margao, Goa
Posts: 723
Thanked: 412 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

What happened to this project? I had posted a query in a FB group about using the Safari for off-roading and got many negative responses. Agreed that the Safari can never be a hardcore off-roader but then lot of people in Italy use it for off-roading. So why not in India?
pedrolourenco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2015, 16:16   #20
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,852
Thanked: 15,406 Times
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
What happened to this project? I had posted a query in a FB group about using the Safari for off-roading and got many negative responses. Agreed that the Safari can never be a hardcore off-roader but then lot of people in Italy use it for off-roading. So why not in India?
Its about cost benefit. Even extensive rough trail driving in 4x4 leads to expensive repair bills with alignment going off etc., Offroading? Well if you have deep pockets.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2015, 16:38   #21
BHPian
 
pedrolourenco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Margao, Goa
Posts: 723
Thanked: 412 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its about cost benefit. Even extensive rough trail driving in 4x4 leads to expensive repair bills with alignment going off etc., Offroading? Well if you have deep pockets.
If you need deep pockets to off-road in a Safari, then what about the Fortuner, Endeavor and higher up Land Rovers, Jeeps, BMW, Mercedes & Porsche SUV's? I thought Scorpio and Safari were the cheapest vehicles after the basic MM540/Thar type vehicles.
Also by off-roading I did not mean the extreme type like Palar challenge or RFC. I was thinking more on the lines of basic off-roading similar or easier than Great Escape type.

BTW I see from photos that your Safari spends quite a bit of time off the road and IIRC in extreme conditions like snow. What has been your experience? How much do you spend on an average yearly because of this kind of usage.

Last edited by pedrolourenco : 18th October 2015 at 16:51.
pedrolourenco is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 00:22   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,852
Thanked: 15,406 Times
Default Re: Safari 2.2 - 4x4 - Offroad specific suspension modification project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
If you need deep pockets to off-road in a Safari, then what about the Fortuner, Endeavor and higher up Land Rovers, Jeeps, BMW, Mercedes & Porsche SUV's? I thought Scorpio and Safari were the cheapest vehicles after the basic MM540/Thar type vehicles.
Also by off-roading I did not mean the extreme type like Palar challenge or RFC. I was thinking more on the lines of basic off-roading similar or easier than Great Escape type.
Scorpio 4x4 somehow requires lesser suspension work that safari. I guess its the different suspension geometry.

Quote:
BTW I see from photos that your Safari spends quite a bit of time off the road and IIRC in extreme conditions like snow. What has been your experience? How much do you spend on an average yearly because of this kind of usage.
There is nothing really extreme about snow. However, rough trail driving, like rocky tracks and dirt tracks with continous suspension abuse results in suspension issues. Over the past 30,000kms I have spent around 1 lakh 50 thousand on maintenance, and about 70-80000 has been for suspension, bearing and drive-train related stuff.

LSD kit lasts just 60,000kms. The 4x4 transfer case keeps acting up. Infact, it will stop working if it rains. Go figure. The workshop wants me to change the motor and what not, but they cannot conclusively guarantee that if I replace motor things will get okay.

For rough road driving, a fortuner is much better. Infact, for rough roads, I often prefer the Liva. I had to change shock aborber on one side after 40,000kms, which is kind of okay. On the Safari, even with normal dirt track stuff, every 5000-6000kms, I need to get some suspension stuff fixed.
tsk1979 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mumbai's Offroad Junkie goes international! Builds offroad track for Mercedes, Hong Kong GTO 4x4 Excursions 12 24th December 2015 14:01
Competitive Offroad Vehicle Modification khan_sultan 4x4 Technical 20 17th August 2015 01:58
my new baby A 4X4 JEEP !!!(no specific model because its all mix and match) garrett_t16 4x4 Vehicles 147 28th November 2013 15:28
Solo offroad trip to Rajmachi > Safari 2.2 4x4 on 6th July 08: jaysmokesleaves 4x4 Excursions 27 9th December 2009 11:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:55.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks