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Old 24th August 2008, 21:57   #361
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You should also remember to deflate your tires before you go on Sand.
Exactly 4x4 addict! The tires of that Gurkha do not appear to have been deflated; on sand, the tyres are usually deflated to half their normal on-road pressure (say 15 to 18 psi against 30 to 34 psi).
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Old 24th August 2008, 23:07   #362
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Hi monster bhp,
I think we are expecting too much out of gurkha just because it has diff locks. I think this machine needs to be driven in much more matured manner. Lets take this straight, Gurkha can get stuck!! No embaresment here.

Few points to remember with gurkha-

1. Take as many precautions that u take in a jeep/ gypsy and then approach an obstacle. Diff locks dont make any vehicle invincible.

2. Assess the terrain and put ur diff locks ON before approaching the obstacle. Diff locks can be useless once u get stuck, especially in soft sand

3. Build enough momentum before u approach a difficult section.

4. Remember gurkha is twice as heavy as gypsy and almost 600kg more than a regular jeep. Hence donot go on soft areas. If u get stuck, gurkha will not come out just by human push. It is heavy.

5. Delfalte the tyres to half about 15-18 PSI for radials on soft sand. Buy a portable air compressor to reinflate when ur back on road.

6. Get rid of that front bull bar if possible, this reduces ur approach angle drastically

Gurkha is a competent vehicle for its class and weight. May be it can do better than a safari 4wd, scorpio wd, Armada4wd etc. It an give a tough fight to veterans like Jeep and gypsy but one needs practice to tame Gurkha.

You seem to be in chennai...lets meet up some time:-)

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 24th August 2008 at 23:09.
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Old 25th August 2008, 10:12   #363
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one more thing:

do a recce of the area on foot, where you intend to drive your vehicle, to check the condition of the sand. driving on sand is very tricky and you need to understand and learn about sand/desert driving.

if you get stuck in sand, dont keep pressing the gas pedal, if the vehicle finaly rests on the chassis, then you are REALLY stuck!

remember its the man who controls a machine, and thats what matters!

cheers
cheers:
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Old 25th August 2008, 10:28   #364
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Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
Does any one think thicker tyres are the solutions for this?
The choice in tyres depends primarily on the nature of the terrain you are driving in (as far as my experience has shown)

When you are traversing slush where the top layers are followed by harder ground underneath the narrow NDMS type tyres are the best as they cut through the muck and grip the lower ground quickly giving you traction. Your Gurkha's OE tyres are similar and will work well in that situation.

On the other hand if the soil is extremely soft as in desert sand, beach sand or very deep slush you need what is known as floatation. Here the wider radials have an edge owing to their wide footprint.

Apart from this tyres for offroad use need lugs/tread pattern to not only grip effectively but also allow for quick cleaning of soil from within the grooves so it can grip. Usually highway treads or even the AT tread in heavy clay or slush get fully choked and become slicks causing your car to simply spin.

In your case you should have deflated the nylons down to 15 psi to get a wider footprint for the beach sand. It helps.

Further your driving technique plays a critical role too. It helps to always watch if your action is causing the car to move. Persist with the action as long as the car is moving. If a car is not moving, stop giving it throttle. Try reversing and back tracking. Use a rocking motion as sometimes a ridge develops ahead of tyres making traction more difficult. If all this fails, get down and assess the situation, clearing soil ahead and behind the wheels.

In your case once the Gurkha gets bogged down and is not moving, engage one or both the diff locks. If even this fails and it doesn't shift then do the above.

Under any circumstance avoid digging in as the car sits stationary as once your chassis bottoms out, which can happen in seconds in soft sand you better have a shovel and some serious excavation. Hope this helps.

Please don't get disheartened. Its wonderful to see you experiment. With practice and experience you will not only understand the terrain better and what technique to use but know your vehicle intimately. That after all is the special part of offroading. A synergy between man machine and nature.

Last edited by DKG : 25th August 2008 at 10:40.
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Old 25th August 2008, 11:07   #365
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Before going onto sand, DEFLATE your tyres - this is a universal basic. It is not the vehicle's fault - you may have the best off-roader in the world, but if you dont follow basics such as this you might as well have have gone off-road in an Ambassador.

You dont need lockable differentials or anything else to get out of there. Hell, even a 2.25 tonne Safari would've managed in that sand quite well if the basics were followed.

Dont let this incident weigh on your mind or cause doubts to arise on your choice of vehicle.
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Old 25th August 2008, 13:36   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
I was trying to climb a steep area of the sand which was also wet and loosely packed, so it gave way soon. My question is would the Gypsy have fared better than mine in this situation?
I won't "second guess" you because camera's lie and I do not know what the sand is like where you got stuck.

I will bet that with tyres a bit deflated and in 4L in 2nd gear with your lockers on, you will not even begin to get stuck. Most success comes under 12 kph speed and even much slower. You surely do have a nice machine to experiment and learn with.
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Old 25th August 2008, 14:24   #367
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Default Gurkha, Sand & Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
Embarrassing as it may be to post this, here is my Gurkha stuck in the sands, usually i come out using the diff locks but this time i ran out of luck and gassed the peddle and dug in. Please Notice the angle of approach on the sand. I was trying to climb a steep area of the sand which was also wet and loosely packed, so it gave way soon. My question is would the Gypsy have fared better than mine in this situation?

And If you Notice in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th picture, you will see how deep the Gurkhas tracks seem to dig in sand while driving normally. Does any one think thicker tyres are the solutions for this?

Rest of the Pictures are taken by me, the drive on sand that day was nearly 50km and this is the first time it got stuck, as i was trying to push its envelop and see what will happen.
Hi Karthick,

50Kms you would have reached Mahabalipuramcheers:.

The tyres on the Gurkha are Indian Deriviatives of one of the Best OTR Tyres available. JK Tyre 4x4 2000 is a copy of the Michelin X-Series (XCL/XML/XS). 7.50X16 is ideal for a vehicle upto a GVW of 5000lbs

A wider tyres will float better but will eat up your engine power and acceleration.

About 7% per inch per wheel is what I read. (the loss of power)

Do consider the Salt water/spray and salty sand sticking to the body.

This will eat up the vehicle in a few months.

Regards,

Arka

PS - My brother got the Nissan 1 Ton stuck the same night, the sand caved in and the front left tyre got stuck, he reversed and then got the fishermen to lift the front left tyre with a log....all this just after TPC2008
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Old 26th August 2008, 00:55   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Wider tires are not always better in off-roading situations. Sometimes it can also be a hindrance, but if are going to do most of your off-road driving in the beach/sand wider tires help a tremendously. You should also remember to deflate your tires before you go on Sand.
Ya i agree its not best for all off-roading situations but for sand i guess the bigger your foot print the less you sink. So since most of the off-roading terrain near chennai is sand, i guess its best to have an wider tyre in any case, because if you noticed the foot print of my vehicel you can see how deep it sinks in sand while driving! So i bet wider tyres with defation will help..

Quote:
Originally Posted by -GT- View Post
Exactly 4x4 addict! The tires of that Gurkha do not appear to have been deflated; on sand, the tyres are usually deflated to half their normal on-road pressure (say 15 to 18 psi against 30 to 34 psi).
I couldnt deflate becoz i thought i will take it only for short spin but i got carried away and kept driving off a long way! More over i had to go on road to a pump to deflate my tyres and i didnt have any pressure gauge with me..


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Hi monster bhp,
I think we are expecting too much out of gurkha just because it has diff locks. I think this machine needs to be driven in much more matured manner. Lets take this straight, Gurkha can get stuck!! No embaresment here.

You seem to be in chennai...lets meet up some time:-)
I agree completely, but the word around here is that Gurkha is not that good for off-roading and all this is comeing from people who have taken a trail off-road! Like Sumarai and the people who saw it Coorg OTR who say it didnt cross the first obstacle itself!

I have seen your jeep couple of times on road. Sure can meet up some time as soon as i get the Reg problem sorted out. Do you stay in Chetpet or Nungambakkam? Because i have seen you vehicel parked near Harrisons!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
one more thing:

do a recce of the area on foot, where you intend to drive your vehicle, to check the condition of the sand. driving on sand is very tricky and you need to understand and learn about sand/desert driving.

if you get stuck in sand, dont keep pressing the gas pedal, if the vehicle finaly rests on the chassis, then you are REALLY stuck!

remember its the man who controls a machine, and thats what matters!

cheers
cheers:
I understand but the recce of the area in front me is like 50km of coast line! and the places i cant go i check on foot before i go into it. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
The choice in tyres depends primarily on the nature of the terrain you are driving in (as far as my experience has shown)
Hello Mr.DKG, nice post and thanks for the info.

The problems are that i am not sure the diff locks in the rear are working! becoz i tried it with the diff locks and the tyre which had grip in the sand also failed to rotate or move, it felt like a LSD! I wonder if that can happen to a diff-locks, where they wont turn after its engaged also! but when i tried harder then it did move but it didnt help as it too lost traction soon. May be i have to go to the work shop and jack it up on one side and check if the diff locks are working!

Further more getting these diff-locks to engage is a shoulder excerise by itself!! The dam thing wont come up and if it does it wont stay there it will go back in again!! lol..


Anyway i am sort of disappointed because the vehicel is still not registered because initially my dealer gave the Trax gama drawing to the RTO and they rejected it or atleast thats what they told me and still they are postponing the issue siteing some weird reasons! dont know what else could be wrong!

Further more the vehicel is still in the work shop becasue they cant fix the brake system which seems to work the other way round! where the back brakes work first and the Front brake does the assisting, which is wrong. They cant seem to get the power to the front brakes! becasue of some brake design issue where the LRT(Load sensative brakes) has some issues with it.

Hopeing for the best now or i am going to the Himalayas as a monk!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Before going onto sand, DEFLATE your tyres - this is a universal basic. It is not the vehicle's fault - you may have the best off-roader in the world, but if you dont follow basics such as this you might as well have have gone off-road in an Ambassador.

You dont need lockable differentials or anything else to get out of there. Hell, even a 2.25 tonne Safari would've managed in that sand quite well if the basics were followed.

Dont let this incident weigh on your mind or cause doubts to arise on your choice of vehicle.
Ya thanks for the tip, will try it out next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I won't "second guess" you because camera's lie and I do not know what the sand is like where you got stuck.

I will bet that with tyres a bit deflated and in 4L in 2nd gear with your lockers on, you will not even begin to get stuck. Most success comes under 12 kph speed and even much slower. You surely do have a nice machine to experiment and learn with.
Lockers cant be on all the time as it puts to much stress on the diffrentials.
I heard the faster you are on sand the lesser chances of getting stuck becoz you have momentum in your side and you can float of easily. So its important to maintain momentum but thanks bro will try it out next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Karthick,

50Kms you would have reached Mahabalipuramcheers:.

The tyres on the Gurkha are Indian Deriviatives of one of the Best OTR Tyres available. JK Tyre 4x4 2000 is a copy of the Michelin X-Series (XCL/XML/XS). 7.50X16 is ideal for a vehicle upto a GVW of 5000lbs

A wider tyres will float better but will eat up your engine power and acceleration.

About 7% per inch per wheel is what I read. (the loss of power)

Do consider the Salt water/spray and salty sand sticking to the body.

This will eat up the vehicle in a few months.

Regards,

Arka

PS - My brother got the Nissan 1 Ton stuck the same night, the sand caved in and the front left tyre got stuck, he reversed and then got the fishermen to lift the front left tyre with a log....all this just after TPC2008
Hi Arka!

Ya i was near Mahabas that day, i passed Golden Sun resort and thats where i got stuck. Man i just took it for a test and got carried away, literally!

I understand the loss of power but in this case the tyres are really cutting through the sand badly as you can see in those pics, so it feels like the Gurkha is pushing through the sand than ridding on it! So in my guess if anything gives more flotation then power wont drop becasue its at least not wasted on cutting through the sand.

I doubt the Gurkha is better than the Gypsy becoz my brother has the Gypsy for a long time so i know a bit of it. We shall meet up when the registration problem gets over and the brake issues are sorted out. Will get madan too.

P.S. How many fisher men did you get to lift the dam thing out!! are you sure it wasn't the Navy?! Sounds odd becoz even with the Gurkha i had to get the JCB but as Archimedes said "give me a place to stand and a leaver long enough and i will move the world"! But at the moment even the Gurkha seems so hard!

Last edited by Monster_BHP : 26th August 2008 at 01:12.
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Old 26th August 2008, 01:16   #369
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Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
I couldnt deflate becoz i thought i will take it only for short spin but i got carried away and kept driving off a long way! More over i had to go on road to a pump to deflate my tyres and i didnt have any pressure gauge with me..
You need to invest in a small portable compressor - it doesnt cost very much, say about Rs.1000 for a single cylinder one and Rs.2-3000 for a twin cylinder version. Both of these are very portable (one of my compressors even has a nice belt-hanger so you can hang the compressor from your waist, thereby freeing your hands) and can be powered either directly off the batteries or from your cigarette lighter socket.

Then, deflate to about 20-21 psi for use on sand. This is what we use for loose, dry sand in the dunes out here - wet, crumbly sand may not require so much deflation. However you shouldnt use transfer too much power on wet, crumbly sand as your tyres will soon make a nice smooth surface by pushing out all the crumbly portions, leaving your tyres in a rut of smooth, hard-packed sand where they will keep rotating. In such cases, putting some weight on the wheel that;s spinning may help get some purchase, but again you shouldnt give too much power to the wheels.

Last edited by Steeroid : 26th August 2008 at 01:17.
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Old 26th August 2008, 08:24   #370
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Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
I agree completely, but the word around here is that Gurkha is not that good for off-roading and all this is comeing from people who have taken a trail off-road! Like Sumarai and the people who saw it Coorg OTR who say it didnt cross the first obstacle itself!
Let's not hold that against the Gurkha, out of the 52 vehicles, only a 60s model Petrol Willy's made it through that one. It was an example of bigger the hype, harder they fall. While most of us could get our front tyres over the other bank, Gurkha couldn't. That's what disppointed most of us who expected Gurkha to breeze through every obstacle.

Going by my limited off-roading experience, I feel Gurkha is not a vehicle for offroading newbie. The proper usage of manual diff-locks needs very good understanding of technique and terrain. Instead of doing solo trips like this, I suggest you regularly do day OTR events with Arka/headers gang, let them drive it and explore the possibilities, so that they can tell you how to use the Gurkha correctly.
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Old 26th August 2008, 09:23   #371
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Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
.... i am not sure the diff locks in the rear are working! becoz i tried it with the diff locks and the tyre which had grip in the sand also failed to rotate or move, it felt like a LSD!

I wonder if that can happen to a diff-locks, where they wont turn after its engaged also! but when i tried harder then it did move but it didnt help as it too lost traction soon....
Buddy, When you are stuck and don't have momentum in certain terrains (like sand, upward climb over rocky pebbled gravel track etc..) the diff locks can do that much only.

However, if you have momentum and your diff-locks are 'on' then the above terrain should not be an issue. I experienced it first hand this weekend in the Soligere OTR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
... Going by my limited off-roading experience, I feel Gurkha is not a vehicle for offroading newbie. The proper usage of manual diff-locks needs very good understanding of technique and terrain. Instead of doing solo trips like this, I suggest you regularly do day OTR events with Arka/headers gang, let them drive it and explore the possibilities, so that they can tell you how to use the Gurkha correctly...
. Go out with a gang of 4x4's and it will do wonders for improving one's skills, confidence and understanding of technique and terrain.
You have a wonderful and capable 4x4 my dear friend; so don't lose heart.
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Old 27th September 2008, 20:52   #372
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Gurkha or Pajero...

now this is the question?

any hints?
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Old 27th September 2008, 22:56   #373
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Gurkha or Pajero...

now this is the question?

any hints?
Pajero gets my vote. but sad to say its two generations behind the current one sold outside india.

indian consumer is being taken for a ride by MMC by selling the outdated pajero in india!

cheers:
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Old 27th September 2008, 23:13   #374
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Guy dont think you got no meat if you dont have fat rubber. Sometimes skinny choco-grip tire may save the day where a fat tire has no go.
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Old 30th September 2008, 18:27   #375
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any one got any news abt the launch of Gurkha with Om 611...?
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