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Old 20th January 2009, 15:17   #496
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Sorry, but I am skeptical about this statement. The G-Wagen sold in a few markets currently is light years ahead of the Gurkha/Gama and costs about 100000 USD. It is now sold to the Range Rover crowd, not the cheap 4x4 crowd.

The cheaper version that you are referring to is only sold to armys. If you are referring to the army version used by limited countries, I can't imagine that Germany would suddenly decide to buy the Gurkha instead of the G-wagen because it is cheaper. The body panels and every bolt on gurkha would become loose and fall apart if a grenade exploded within 5 kms.

I don't see how the Gurkha with an OM611 engine will put a dent in Mercedes sales anywhere in the world !!. What you are describing is wishful thinking by Force Motors.

Funny, the very body panels you describe are also used on the G albeit with wax filling the hollow areas for sound deadening and better corrosion resistance. The Gurkha body panel along with the one used in G are among the toughest to come on off road vehicles. Of course the G gets luxurious paint and finish which the Gurkha doesn't but then at that cost, it is but to be expected. Going by your conjecture, both the G and the Gurkha should come loose and fall apart if they come close to a grenade.

I guess the German 4x4 mag were dead wrong when they declared the Gurkha Hardest Off Roader. That report was where the Gurkha was pitted against G Wagen and TLC FJ as well as Land Rover. As I said, apart from the poor fitting, base technology is bullet proof in the Gurkha and before you jump the gun, yours truly thats me Gurkha has a G Wagen ( GD270CDI ) in the family as well in Germany so I have the best perspective to compare. Also the Gurkha has been sold to quite a few German buyers in Germany and rest of Europe, notable among them is a person who goes by the name of Bollywood Trax, he has extensively off roaded with it in Europe and belongs to many clubs where G Wagen are regular feature. Calling the concept of Gurkha poor means that all the MB components and design is poor to start with.
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Old 20th January 2009, 15:56   #497
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You are trying to prove to me that the Gurkha is a very capable machine. I don't dispute that and am hundred percent in agreement with you on that. I am just saying that Force motors had made such a crude vehicle that that I disagree with your suggestion that Mercedes is worried about the Gurkha putting a dent in their sales as I mentioned the current G-Wagen is sold in a completely different price range. At 70,000 plus euros, it's not a cheap 4x4. I am saying that the guy who has 70,000 euros or 100K in the US will not buy a Gurkha period !!

Last edited by 4x4addict : 20th January 2009 at 15:59.
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Old 20th January 2009, 16:06   #498
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Gurkha & 4x4addict, please cool down. Nothing will come out of this battle of wits.

I am not sure whether we are discussing the older Trax Gurkha or the current Force Gurkha. I am getting the feeling that Gurkha is referring to the former and 4x4addict is referring to the latter.

The engine is not the same and we don't know what else...
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Old 20th January 2009, 16:06   #499
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You are trying to prove to me that the Gurkha is a very capable machine. I don't dispute that and am hundred percent in agreement with you on that. I am just saying that Force motors had made such a crude vehicle that that I disagree with your suggestion that Mercedes is worried about the Gurkha putting a dent in their sales as I mentioned the current G-Wagen is sold in a completely different price range. At 70,000 plus euros, it's not a cheap 4x4. I am saying that the guy who has 70,000 euros or 100K in the US will not buy a Gurkha period !!
MB is not worried about Gurkha, what they are worried about is the engine, they own the rights to it and since Force is no longer associated with MB, lots of implications arise marketing wise which Force has to sort out.
They are not worried about dent in sales, what they worry instead is the original true G users, the farmers, miners and enthusiast who don't have deep pockets buying Gurkha and therefore establishing a sort of cult reputation of a poor man's G which is exactly what the Gurkha is. As for its off road capabilities as well as other design advantages like tubular chassis and IFS, I will leave that debate to the enthusiast but I can tell you with contention after having driven both vehicles extensively, the on road manners of the Gurkha with proper Yoko Geolandar and Billstein HD shocks is miles better than the G and thats a fact even G engineers I talked to at Stuttgart agree. The G Wagen is skittish due to the live axle even though its one of the best as far as the live axle design off roaders go.
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Old 20th January 2009, 16:07   #500
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You are trying to prove to me that the Gurkha is a very capable machine. I don't dispute that and am hundred percent in agreement with you on that. I am just saying that Force motors had made such a crude vehicle that that I disagree with your suggestion that Mercedes is worried about the Gurkha putting a dent in their sales as I mentioned the current G-Wagen is sold in a completely different price range. At 70,000 plus euros, it's not a cheap 4x4. I am saying that the guy who has 70,000 euros or 100K in the US will not buy a Gurkha period !!
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Gurkha & 4x4addict, please cool down. Nothing will come out of this battle of wits.

I am not sure whether we are discussing the older Trax Gurkha or the current Force Gurkha. I am getting the feeling that Gurkha is referring to the former and 4x4addict is referring to the latter.

The engine is not the same and we don't know what else...
Apart from the engine, almost everything else is the same and so is the capability and the engine isn't that shoddy either except for the 80bhp output. It has far better life than whats currently offered in other off roaders in India, Pajero IDI included.
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Old 20th January 2009, 16:14   #501
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It would be interesting to know if the rest of the transmission elements are manufactured by Force in India or imported whole from Germany (IMHO, one of the key factors for their reliability). The first-gen Gurkhas and the Judo 4x4s had imported components. I dont know if the 4x4 axles (I mean, the ones with diff-locks) and transfer case of the current Gurkha are imported or not.

Any inputs on this, gentlemen?

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 20th January 2009 at 16:20.
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Old 20th January 2009, 16:36   #502
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It would be interesting to know if the rest of the transmission elements are manufactured by Force in India or imported whole from Germany (IMHO, one of the key factors for their reliability). The first-gen Gurkhas and the Judo 4x4s had imported components. I dont know if the 4x4 axles (I mean, the ones with diff-locks) and transfer case of the current Gurkha are imported or not.

Any inputs on this, gentlemen?
ZF and PUCH India makes them, same parts are exported back to Europe for many other vehicles. Absolutely no failures from an overengineered powertrain rated for 3 tons be it made in India or made in Germany. The rest of the components like axle, flange etc. are from Dana-Spicer.
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Old 20th January 2009, 16:58   #503
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According to a senior official from Force its sometime in 2009-10 that one can expect to buy a Gurkha with the 611 engine locally within India
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Old 20th January 2009, 17:58   #504
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According to a senior official from Force its sometime in 2009-10 that one can expect to buy a Gurkha with the 611 engine locally within India
Absolutely right, when and if the licensing issues are resolved. The OM611 Gurkha has already passed TRAI and other norms last year Oct.
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Old 28th January 2009, 02:23   #505
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I have recently been told 3-4 months for the prototype to come out... watch out guys!
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Old 28th January 2009, 06:13   #506
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Somebody please wake me up when the 611 drama is over !!
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Old 28th January 2009, 07:56   #507
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Somebody please wake me up when the 611 drama is over !!
Good luck with cryogenic stasis, didn't know that technology existed outside of movies.
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Old 28th January 2009, 09:24   #508
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Better to keep sleeping.
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Old 28th January 2009, 13:54   #509
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After seeing the Gurkha up close and personal, If I had to ask myself this question again.

"Would you pay 8+lacs for this vehicle...??!

The answer would be a resounding yes OH YES !!
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Old 28th January 2009, 15:15   #510
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Originally Posted by Torque-ative View Post
After seeing the Gurkha up close and personal, If I had to ask myself this question again.

"Would you pay 8+lacs for this vehicle...??!

The answer would be a resounding yes OH YES !!




With the OM611 the cost would go up but it would be a vehicle with no par.
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