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Old 11th February 2009, 18:26   #631
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Originally Posted by brutus View Post
Hi folks,

The Fj cruiser is really a no good off-roader. Vehicle companies have realized that hardly 10% people ever use these kind of vehicles offroad, so they all got into soft-roaders now. Why, look at the latest landroaver and the nissan patrol now, everybody says they messed up the off-road capabilities. There are hardly any people using the fj cruiser off-road, that too with some very highly modded suspension system, and they too dont go where they take they rubicon and FJ toys to.
Bikram

I really cannot let the statement in bold go without a comment. Apparently you have not seen the FJC in action. Out here in Dubai, the most used vehicles on sand are FJCs and Wranglers (by non-tour company people). I even know of expert drivers using the FJC on sand on stock form, as is from the company, without even reducing the air in the tyres.

I myself have an FJC and have seen it doing wonders on the sand.

So check your facts before posting such a statement.

FK
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Old 11th February 2009, 18:30   #632
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Really? in what terrains?

Which areas sir?

Though the above 2 statements seems contradicting but they do nail down the most important element in off-roading -- the man behind the machine

In stock condition, yes to all except engine power (apart from the old 410 Gypsies). You remove the anti-sway bar and you have as much travel you need and more.

There is something called beginner's luck. I have personally seen a Gurkha struggle after 3 attempts with all arsenal at it's disposal. Either way it does not 'conclusively' prove it's capabilities or non capabilities.

I am just wondering which 'off-road terrain' it excels in. For example, when we talk of Gypsy we can immediately say that it excels in Sand and slush - because of it's light weight. The jeeps in rock crawling etc..

I think what we at times tend to generalize this term called 'off-road'. At times people call a jungle trail an off-road, some call bad roads an off-road, some call agriculture fields an off-road, some will say only a 'rubicon' or 'rain forest challenge' to be an off-road, for some sand is off-road. And in EACH terrain you need a different setup for your off-roader. What works in sand in Middle east may not work in Rubicon trail and so on..



Well said. Each vehicle has it's own +s & -s. So does the Gurkha.
Every kind of terrain you can throw at it. Thats the beauty, be it rocky or sandy depending as long as you know how to use it. Bear in mind different trails need different kind of tires specific to terrain.

No luck is enough for begineers and I have seen M&M and Gypsy struggle invariably in all kinds of terrain where the Gurkha makes it a breeze. No contradiction, the H/T tire laden Gurkha overcomes obstacles by its inherent design, no voodoo there. Point in case, my 4x4 Safari couldn't handle basic terrains handled by a Gurkha in 2WD mode, driver skills being same.

No generalizations, an off road trail is an off road trail period, be it US or India, of course, the level of difficulty varies and so does the machine.

Now back to my crack smoking, maybe I will join in with fellow Gurkha owners and German 4x4 mag.

Jeep fanboyz can now resume their adulation. Last I checked, this is a Trax Gurkha thread, just can't figure out why it irks Jeep Jugaru boyz so much that they have to butt in. There is so many other I Love My JEEP threads going on, maybe thats where they should concentrate and leave us ordinary incompetent Trax owners to lament in our sorrow.
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Old 11th February 2009, 18:35   #633
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Really? in what terrains?

Which areas sir?

Though the above 2 statements seems contradicting but they do nail down the most important element in off-roading -- the man behind the machine

In stock condition, yes to all except engine power (apart from the old 410 Gypsies). You remove the anti-sway bar and you have as much travel you need and more.

There is something called beginner's luck. I have personally seen a Gurkha struggle after 3 attempts with all arsenal at it's disposal. Either way it does not 'conclusively' prove it's capabilities or non capabilities.

I am just wondering which 'off-road terrain' it excels in. For example, when we talk of Gypsy we can immediately say that it excels in Sand and slush - because of it's light weight. The jeeps in rock crawling etc..

I think what we at times tend to generalize this term called 'off-road'. At times people call a jungle trail an off-road, some call bad roads an off-road, some call agriculture fields an off-road, some will say only a 'rubicon' or 'rain forest challenge' to be an off-road, for some sand is off-road. And in EACH terrain you need a different setup for your off-roader. What works in sand in Middle east may not work in Rubicon trail and so on..



Well said. Each vehicle has it's own +s & -s. So does the Gurkha.
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Originally Posted by fk7 View Post
I really cannot let the statement in bold go without a comment. Apparently you have not seen the FJC in action. Out here in Dubai, the most used vehicles on sand are FJCs and Wranglers (by non-tour company people). I even know of expert drivers using the FJC on sand on stock form, as is from the company, without even reducing the air in the tyres.

I myself have an FJC and have seen it doing wonders on the sand.

So check your facts before posting such a statement.

FK
Don't bother, that statement enough reflects the attitude. The FJ is a legend, the new one is setting the off road world on fire. Toyota used their years of experience winning Baja and various other events to come out with this. Its a dream come true for veteran off road users, however for certain individuals here for whom there is only one off roader, FJ, Gelande Wagen, PUCH, Mog, Pinzgauer, Gurkha are all but ordinary station wagon to be used sparingly off road.

Facts............they don't need no steenking facts..........they got the ultimate JUGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Old 11th February 2009, 18:42   #634
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
The IFS FJ ran rings around some hopped up Live Axle off roaders during last years Rubicon. Both have attributes but IFS is overall better any day.
Why? Not saying it didn't but, why? I fail to see how either suspension can be superior in terms of pure traction. Ground clearance is another matter....

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Originally Posted by brutus View Post
Also, in an solid axle system, if a wheel goes up, it takes along the entire axle along with it, therefore never reducing clearence. In an independent suspension, only the wheel belonging to that side goes up, thus the minimum clearence is right at where the lower A-arm in hinged at the chassis, and where the entire weight of the vehicle is placed at......
Yeah, but if the IFS wheel goes down don't you have more GC than the live axle? (PS Hullo, Motorhead)
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Old 11th February 2009, 18:48   #635
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Yes ,you are right, the german mag has nothing to do with normal road-use vehicles. It publishes only articles about specialized off-road vehciles, and thats probably the reason why it never included the G-wagon and the likes, becuse they are just normal road vehicles and not a competition offroader like the gurkha is.


Here is an fj cruiser, which thanks to independent suspension does so well with loads of articulation, with the wheels always remaining in contact with the ground.


but this jeep here, due to its solid axles, has absolutely zero articulation, with the wheel always in the air. I wonder why these idiots ever bought the jeep in the first place, when there are so many independent suspension vehicles out there.

As for axles, those competition class idiots are prefering a 2 ton rating ford 9inch over a dana60, both of them costing over a 1000dollors, and then adding stuff that takes the price to 3 grand, whereas they could have just used a gurkha axle which would'nt cost more than a 1000dollors.

The jonga rear axle is not rated at 750kgs, its the payload specs of the entire vehicle, even though it still is a weak axle with just a 8.503 ring gear size and 1.31 axle diameter(at its thinnest), but a semi-floating axle. The axle tube thinkness at 30mm is at par with the Dana44.

Anyways, 2.75 ton for some is read as towed weight, but for some people, an axle that looks like a puny little axle in front of the Tata407 axle rated at 2.5 tons with a 1.5inch shaft thinkness and 9.5 inch ring dia, for unexplainable reasons is still stronger than it. Maybe Tata should get some building experiance from force. That way they would be able to build the strongest trucks in the world. And Rolls-Royce should learn how to make a well- built quality vehicle from force too.
Bikram

P.S.- No hard feelings please. its just a joke.

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Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th February 2009 at 11:49. Reason: Excessive Smileys
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:06   #636
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Originally Posted by brutus View Post
Yes ,you are right, the german mag has nothing to do with normal road-use vehicles. It publishes only articles about specialized off-road vehciles, and thats probably the reason why it never included the G-wagon and the likes, becuse they are just normal road vehicles and not a competition offroader like the gurkha is.
....

but this jeep here, due to its solid axles, has absolutely zero articulation, with the wheel always in the air. I wonder why these idiots ever bought the jeep in the first place, when there are so many independent suspension vehicles out there.

As for axles, those competition class idiots are prefering a 2 ton rating ford 9inch over a dana60, both of them costing over a 1000dollors, and then adding stuff that takes the price to 3 grand, whereas they could have just used a gurkha axle which would'nt cost more than a 1000dollors.

The jonga rear axle is not rated at 750kgs, its the payload specs of the entire vehicle, even though it still is a weak axle with just a 8.503 ring gear size and 1.31 axle diameter(at its thinnest), but a semi-floating axle. The axle tube thinkness at 30mm is at par with the Dana44.
.....

P.S.- No hard feelings please. its just a joke.
Yeah, the puny little axle outlasts Tata 407 as maybe, Mercedes had some tricks up their sleeve which others didnt'. Of course, Tata can learn a lot. Maybe the German mags were smoking something when they did a payload test. The rear diff on Gurkha is far from puny. I see so Dana 44 is your yardstick, then it just plain sucks and not surprising at all. Comparing Jonga's axle to Gurkha is a joke, Jonga axle can't even take Hino's torque, neither can it take the pounding like the Gurkha axle can. Its apparent you have not even been close to one. The only person who has a genuine legit Gurkha in Patiala is my friend and he just denied any knowledge of handing his vehicle over for a test. Force just uses MB designed components but I guess MB the makers of famous Gelande Wagen are hopeless and incompetent fools. Of course so are station wagon manufacturers Toyota.

The video here shows the superiority of the FJ design over star JEEP RUBICON, as you can see, the idiot with JEEP got bettered by a station wagon from Toyota

Maybe the Jonga and JEEP Jugaru will beat em all.

NOT...........................





Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th February 2009 at 11:48. Reason: Please quote only what is necessary.
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:09   #637
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So once for all, stop comparing against speculation, drive one and be the judge. Gurkha was meant for off road, it was never to be used for on road and off road is where it excels.
Dear gurkha,
First i would like you to respect the feelings and sentiments one associates with their vehicles. I would appriciate if you dont name jeep a Jugaro, which is a very loose term. Did i call gurkha a Jugaro G wagon??

In my previous post and some members like khan sultan have said, each vehicles excel in some situations. If you are hell bent upon to prove Gurkha is one solution then let this thread be a " I love my Gurkha others are simply junk" thread as you put it across.

You said elsewhere gurkha is good on sand, how come? With a kerb weight nearing 1.8 tons and a low reving Di turbo and so so power to weight ratio how can you pit it against some thing like a Gypsy king?? On sand momentum is key

Now you say it is good on slush, may be when the ground is firm. If all the 4 wheels sink will diff lock be of any use? I have experienced this where gypsy glides jeep begins to sink, even 100-200 kgs matter here we are talking a difference of more than half ton!!!

Rock crawling, yes i agree. With diff locks may be it will fair better when others will fight for traction. Again this is possible only if you remove factory bull bar which restricts the angle of approach.

read my thread carefully i did admit some drawbacks of jeeps. Infact even i love gurkha for what it is. But it is not the last thing!!!
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:18   #638
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Dear gurkha,
First i would like you to respect the feelings and sentiments one associates with their vehicles. I would appriciate if you dont name jeep a Jugaro, which is a very loose term. Did i call gurkha a Jugaro G wagon??

In my previous post and some members like khan sultan have said, each vehicles excel in some situations. If you are hell bent upon to prove Gurkha is one solution then let this thread be a " I love my Gurkha others are simply junk" thread as you put it across.

You said elsewhere gurkha is good on sand, how come? With a kerb weight nearing 1.8 tons and a low reving Di turbo and so so power to weight ratio how can you pit it against some thing like a Gypsy king?? On sand momentum is key

Now you say it is good on slush, may be when the ground is firm. If all the 4 wheels sink will diff lock be of any use? I have experienced this where gypsy glides jeep begins to sink, even 100-200 kgs matter here we are talking a difference of more than half ton!!!

Rock crawling, yes i agree. With diff locks may be it will fair better when others will fight for traction. Again this is possible only if you remove factory bull bar which restricts the angle of approach.

read my thread carefully i did admit some drawbacks of jeeps. Infact even i love gurkha for what it is. But it is not the last thing!!!

First of all its a Jugaroo and Gurkha is not a G Wagen, never has it ever been implied anywhere, the Gelande Wagen is a class of its own. So Gurkha is Gurkha, JUGARU JEEP IS just that.........Jugaru, plain and simple.

Secondly, I and other Gurkha users, even one with no diff locks and ordinary Apollo tires have gone over deep mud where JEEP, Gypsy and even Pajero faltered. The trick is the suspension, then Gurkha's is far more pliable than the other three, thats all, as I said no voodoo. As long as you are in the right gear and know the right strategy, Gurkha comparatively will be far less prone to getting stuck. Have you seen the Gelande Wagen on sand, its heavier than Gurkha and even with lesser power 72bhp engine, it does wonders, how does it do it, guess German voodoo

Gurkha is never the last thing but you are a JEEP owner and its apparent that all the points you make against it are based on pure FUD and conjectures, hearsays, own the Gurkha, do off road daily on it and then come back to me when you are done, maybe then you will have some credibility, as of now if I read the label correctly, it says Trax Gurkha, As Good As It Gets, its a Trax Gurkha thread, JEEP threads are far too many and you are free to adore, compare, worship, put it on altar there.

Thanks.

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Old 11th February 2009, 19:35   #639
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Someone said the FJ is a toy not for serious off roading, well here is that very toy from Toyota humbling JEEP's best Rubicon, note the FJ is heavier than Rubicon and since there is a general theory here that lighter vehicles should do better in sand, that theory as well as other conjectures are put to rest in this vid.

Happy viewing but of course, any Jugaru JEEP or JONGA will do it all and I am sure and with ease.

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Old 11th February 2009, 19:36   #640
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After reading through this post, wonder if Gurkha even needs tyres.. With LSDs and those suspensions that am reading through, it can go wherever, do whatever!!

Gurkha is a German engineered vehicle and i wish it co-exists with other vehicles like Jeeps and Gypsies. Don't want to see the history repeating in this thread..
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:40   #641
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First of all its a Jugaroo and Gurkha is not a G Wagen, never has it ever been implied anywhere, the Gelande Wagen is a class of its own. So Gurkha is Gurkha, JUGARU JEEP IS just that.........Jugaru, plain and simple.


Gurkha is never the last thing but you are a JEEP owner and its apparent that all the points you make against it are based on pure FUD and conjectures, hearsays, own the Gurkha, do off road daily on it and then come back to me when you are done, maybe then you will have some credibility, as of now if I read the label correctly, it says Trax Gurkha, As Good As It Gets, its a Trax Gurkha thread, JEEP threads are far too many and you are free to adore, compare, worship, put it on altar there.

Thanks.

Before calling jeep a jugaru please check history books, all your so called 4wds are grandsons of the original jeep. learn to respect your fore-fathers atleast!!

Prove my credibility to you?? Iam sure i dont have to do this to a person who is blinded by the love of gurkha and doesnt even want to see a point and blindly wants to believe what he wants to believe!!

I dont know why are you becoming so defensive!! I read the thread the right way " trax gurkha as good as it gets- only admiration please, else i will get defensive/offensive"

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Old 11th February 2009, 19:50   #642
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Someone said the FJ is a toy not for serious off roading, well here is that very toy from Toyota humbling JEEP's best Rubicon, note the FJ is heavier than Rubicon and since there is a general theory here that lighter vehicles should do better in sand, that theory as well as other conjectures are put to rest in this vid.
gurkha

You got the point wrong- it depends on power to weight ratio, not weight alone!! Gypsy excels at that 80 bhp for about 1 ton VS 40 bhp per ton of gurkha.. I guess you are on thread related to gurkha, do not compare all 4wds in universe in one thread!

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Old 11th February 2009, 19:53   #643
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What is Jugaar / Jugaru?
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Old 11th February 2009, 19:55   #644
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[quote=vinod_nookala;1167533]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Someone said the FJ is a toy not for serious off roading, well here is that very toy from Toyota humbling JEEP's best Rubicon, note the FJ is heavier than Rubicon and since there is a general theory here that lighter vehicles should do better in sand, that theory as well as other conjectures are put to rest in this vid. ]

gurkha

You got the point wrong- it depends on power to weight ratio, not weight alone!! Gypsy excels at that 80 bhp for about 1 ton VS 40 bhp per ton of gurkha.. I guess you are on thread related to gurkha, do not compare all 4wds in universe in one thread!

I got it wrong?, Gypsy delivers its measly torque at a much higher RPM when the wheels are already spinning, thats the bane of a 1.3l gas engine never meant for serious offroading by Suzuki corporation, in that case diesel engine Daihatsu Rocky would do far better. Its not about bhp per ton, in that case, the original G Wagen which became legendary should have failed miserably. Its about torque and the delivery curve, this is where diesels excel and veteran G Wagen users prefer diesel G Wagens for the very same reason, so do FJ users but of course, both are station wagons anyways.

Of course its a Gurkha thread, not a Gypsy or Jugaru thread and least I am brining in relevant vehicles for point of view, not beating a and bringing in Jugaru and a 1.3L beach cruiser for young teeny boppers.

Now lets get back to Trax, As Good As It Gets.

JEEP owners have their threads going, suggest do your worshipping there.

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Old 11th February 2009, 19:56   #645
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What is Jugaar / Jugaru?
Didn't Tata just buy them out? What is this "Mindless Polemics" night....sheeesh!

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