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Old 11th February 2009, 20:03   #646
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Aah, hrag, thanks for asking. I was dying to know what it means (google wasn't of much help) though was worried about getting caught in the crossfire between Gurkhas and Jeeps.

I am guessing it is some kind of an insult/slur cast on Jeeps, though I can't figure out in which language.
P.S. : I am out of here before they all gang up and run over my Baleno as if it was a small hump in their off-road trail.

EDIT : @hrag, DirtyDan was playing on the word "Jugaar", relating it to Tata's 'Jaguar' acquisition.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th February 2009 at 12:00. Reason: cleanup
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:04   #647
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Didn't Tata just buy them out? What is this "Mindless Polemics" night....sheeesh!
What does Tata have to do with what Gurkha (the member) is referring to? If that was meant to be a joke, I'm laughing my Boleros off.

Edit: How many JEEP owners are there, Mr Gurkha? Surely Mahindra owners are not hiding behind the Jeep name in a politically correct forum such as this.

Last edited by hrag : 11th February 2009 at 20:12.
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:09   #648
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Well no insults intended for anyone but as I see, its fair game for Jugaru owners to chime in with their opinions on Gurkha, FJ, Gelande Wagen et al when they haven't the foggiest of what they are talking about. They base it on hearsay, conjectures and sometimes just for the heck of it, nothing substantial in any sense.

If you wish to let sanity prevail, let Gurkha owners run this thread and post their experiences, JEEP owners should stick to their thread, I don't see any Gurkha owners passing any judgements in the JEEP thread and so therefore, I expect the same here.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Please do not ask members, directly or indirectly, to stop posting on any specific thread. All public threads on T-BHP are open for all members post.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th February 2009 at 12:03.
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:10   #649
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Now you puzzle me more , a small vehicles axle made by mercedes is still more powerful than the unimogs, that too made by them, even though its far more bulkier(yeah i know its got portals, but. The idiots could have saved a lot more weight by just installing the light axle of the gurka. A dana44 is comparible to a jonga axle, and theres nothing powerful about it, but comparing how a jonga axle cannot handle a 40kgm hino against an axle taking 20kgm is out of my reasoning, that to when the gurka axle specs are not known, and you made an argument out of it. Just for knowledge, in a full-floater its the axle tube that takes the weight. A Tata407 has a 3.5inch outer axle tube, whereas i am sure the gurkha is somewhere aroung 2.75, but still i beleive its more powerful because someone here told me so without even taking care of the dimensions. If it was any american here he would have supported it with axle specs too, not just a cliam thats its better since its german, even though its half its size(why i thought the german machinery was pounded by the russians and americans, even with their inferior machines in WW2, you are quite right)Again the tata 407 has two pinion support bearings, just like the ford9", so that the pinion can be supported from both sides, decreasing the ring bounce under extreme torque, but the Gurka axle has to be better even without it , despite being half its size, just because its a copied german design, like the mag too. Next i would not be suprised if someone tells me that a German sheperd dog can carry more weight than an african or indian elephant, inrespective of its a smaller size, just because the breed was developed in germany.
As for the video, someone who off-roads really knows how the approach line you take can get you into a different situation. Both vehicle took different lines, the Fj passed easy in the line it took, the wrangler took a more difficult line and had some difficulty. Besides, theres someting called driver skill too.
Yes ,you are right if toyota makes something, its the closed you can come to god, as it has to be perfect, even though those idiots just made a vehcile as it has to be the best offroader, despite the fact the 90% of the people who buy SUV's never use it offroad, and perfer some things called luxary. But why would a vehicle manufacturer do something like that which 90% people would buy, whereas they can just make a vehicle to the rest 10%, even though thats not going to cover the expences they've had. I mean , afterall, they have nothing called market study or marketing policy. They arnt in the bussiness to make money at all, right, just vehciles that people dont want but still buy couse its made by them. And i thought any maufactures that was the first to revolutionalize a 4 wheel drive in the first place would have the max experince, although theres someone who says exactly the opposite.
Anyways , i am convinced that independent suspension systems are better. Heres an idiot with a stupid vehicle showing just how incapable thay can be.


Bikram
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:14   #650
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I think 'Jugaar' means hack-job, amateur-hour type thing. I'll now sit back & watch
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:14   #651
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I have lost track - now who is trying proving what :
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:19   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
What does Tata have to do with what Gurkha (the member) is referring to?
They bought out Jaguar recently...nevermind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Well no insults intended for anyone .....
If you wish to let sanity prevail, let Gurkha owners run this thread and post their experiences, JEEP owners should stick to their thread, I don't see any Gurkha owners passing any judgements in the JEEP thread and so therefore, I expect the same here.
Last I knew all threads were open to all members. Lighten up man, we all know Gurkha is a pretty good vehicle. Even the M&M boys will grant you that.

Could we get back to "just the facts" and tech data now? That's what these threads should be about IMHO.
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:22   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballkey
I think 'Jugaar' means hack-job, amateur-hour type thing.
Did cross my mind, but that would be "Jugaad". Oh, I do see a close similarity there. You know what ballkey, you might be right there.
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:23   #654
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I see first you say FJ is inferior, now you say German machinery was pounded, all conjectures. The Gurkha diff is from bigger 407d truck made by MB and is rated by MB at 2.75t, size has nothing to do with it, its about material and design, plain and simple. Dont' even bring the Tata 407 or Jonga into this equation. The Gurkha gearbox and diff are rated for higher bhp, in case of the tranny its 160bhp and I have already mentioned it for the diff. You keep beating the same point over and over again. If the tests are rating it at 2.75t, then that stands, size notwithstanding. Are you telling me now that a 2L Evo can't beat a 6L US built V8.

Now for some WW-II lessons, not only did the Germans dominate WW-II with a smaller much efficient force, they pounded out US and USSR machineries. The US tanks as well as the earlier USSR tanks were no match for the superior German Panzer tanks which not only had superior gun and armory but also way more powerful engine. Even today, the German built Leopard tank is rated the best. I guess Erich Hartman with his 352 kills on the Me-109 was all fluke or for that matter all the top WW-II tank and air aces are German must mean either they are overtly skilled or faced an enemy that was just hopeless, equipments notwithstanding. The German pilots in eastern and western front have far more kills than any of the Allied aces combined.

Back to Trax now, JONGA thread elsewhere, start another one and lastly, even though I own a Jonga which is at least a less Jugaar than others, I would still rate it inferior except for its design and the HINO engine. Rest of the components including diff, planetary transfer case, chassis etc. are quite poorly manufactured.

At least in the foreign forums, blanket statements like FJ is a toy or not capable off roader would be met with a retort that would ring for days. Mere mention of Jugaar or Tata would get rave response in the foreign forums for sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
They bought out Jaguar recently...nevermind.



Last I knew all threads were open to all members. Lighten up man, we all know Gurkha is a pretty good vehicle. Even the M&M boys will grant you that.

Could we get back to "just the facts" and tech data now? That's what these threads should be about IMHO.
Sure they are, but not based on biased, vested surmisals and not an ounce of fact. M&M boyz have issues and I would like to leave it at that. I have seen that behavior time and again and its quite predictable, thats for sure. Of course there are few M&M boyz who are exceptions but generally speaking, the norm is that they think they are Gods of off road and they are sadly mistaken big time.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 12th February 2009 at 12:08. Reason: back to back posts
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:32   #655
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Sir,do you know about the the single T-34 tank(that too manned by women, ehh...... manned by women????) that destroyed 40 tigre(that makes one formation) tanks in a row. The panzers had a lot of armour, but that made them slower, which the T34 with minimul armour could run circles around them. Simple exp And that the jeep was way more capable that the german swimmingwagon or what ever it was called.
As for the Me-109, it had a lower range than the p50, the spitfaire was better in a dive and faster too, although the Messerscmitt could climb faster. Its cannons too could be compareably to the spitfire, with the p50 being even stronger. And yes, The Me-109 was made of WOOD, not metal like the rest were.
And sir, The FJ toy mean the FJ toyota or the as what the earlier FJ40's/50's and so on are called, not the FJ cruiser toy
Bikram

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Old 11th February 2009, 20:38   #656
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They bought out Jaguar recently...nevermind.
So what does Jaguar have to do with what Gurkha was referring to? Mind explaining sir?
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:41   #657
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I think i had enough sir, you seem to know it all, even though you would like to keep gurka axle dimensions a secret, just that saying its bigger than an axle that weighs 183kgs alone is enough for you. You even could imagine that my pal from patiala has to be vikram nakai.
i would like to end this conversation, , i just dont have that capacity to go on without reason.
Bikram

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Old 11th February 2009, 20:42   #658
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Sir,do you know about the the single T-34 tank(that too manned by women, ehh...... manned by women????) that destroyed 40 tigre(that makes one formation) tanks in a row. The panzers had a lot of armour, but that made them slower, which the T34 with minimul armour could run circles around them. Simple exp And that the jeep was way more capable that the german swimmingwagon or what ever it was called.
As for the Me-109, it had a lower range than the p50, the spitfaire was better in a dive and faster too, although the Messerscmitt could climb faster. Its cannons too could be compareably to the spitfire, with the p50 being even stronger. And yes, The Me-109 was made of WOOD, not metal like the rest were.
Bikram
Yes I do, the Germans were plain and simple outnumbered by inferior Russian T 34, it had nothing to do with the superiority. Go back and check the tank aces and you will see the Germans healthily outnumber both US and USSR tank aces. Me-109 pilots wiped out Spitfire, one look at number of air aces and it will show you who had superior machines. The best Allied air ace had close to 50 kills whereas number of German pilots easily exceeded 100 kills with their Me-109. The Me-109 was terror to the Allied pilots, it had superior speed, better climb rate and of course, innovative German technology which would allow its cannons to fire through the propeller. Same goes for tanks, the Russians were obliterated by Germans in the eastern front till they ran out of fuel, watch the movie Battle of Bulge where even my US admission the Sherman was no match for the Tiger. The Germans had way more tank aces with over 100 kills than Allies. Said and done, no comparison to German or Japanese technology past and present. The JEEP was a donkey cart designed to be airdropped and used and thrown away after use, even during manufacturing, far loose tolerances were specified as quantity over quality was the need. You can't even compare the sophistication of German half tracks, Kubelwagen, G Wagen to crude JEEPs meant to be dropped and used. The needs were different, allies needed quantity and had to air drop them, Germans were already on the ground and therefore didn't need any small disposable vehicle like the JEEP, they needed mobility across the terrain and they achieved that with ease with their vehicles. Stop reading Commando comics and judge the Germans based on that, read the real history and then if possible come to a logical conclusion of who had superior equipment.

Well you are in Trax thread, its your onus to stop.

Last edited by Gurkha : 11th February 2009 at 20:59.
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Old 11th February 2009, 20:54   #659
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I think i had enough sir, you seem to know it all, even though you would like to keep gurka axle dimensions a secret, just that saying its bigger than an axle that weighs 183kgs alone is enough for you. You even could imagine that my pal from patiala has to be vikram nakai.
i would like to end this conversation, please, i just dont have that capacity to go on without reason.
Bikram
I am sure today your pal Vikram Nakai would be very fascinated to know how his Gurkha got rated, in case he is your pal as you claim, then you must know that he is also an ex Gypsy King owner and according to him, he found it hopelessly incompetent as the Gyspy couldnt' do ditches in his farm which the Gurkha does it in 2WD mode. I have sent this thread to him, I am sure he will relish this.

No secret about Gurkha diff, its you who is in denial of published facts, the rating of 2.75t was given by Force as well as tested by German 4x4 mag in 87. Also MB 407d is rated at 2.75t, I guess all these authorities are good enough for me and the rest but of course, they would never be good enough for Mr. Jonga DANA 44 which I still rate as the biggest ill manufactured piece of garbage around.
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Old 11th February 2009, 21:02   #660
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Sir i said one t34 against 40, so how does it outnumber it. They kept it plain simple and expendable, and it still won. And i unlike you, i was not a fighter pilot in WW2 so all i know about them is though books and the internet. the german pilots were better, thats for sure, but thats how you get skills, turning against twice your number almost everyday gives you more pratice. The me-109 was better than the spitfire only until the spitfire mark-9 was released against it, whereas the p50 had always been better. And the kubelwagen was never a 4wheeldrive vehicle.
The sherman was a small tank, so please dont compare it to a tigre heavy tank.
And congratulations,sir, i really much admit that i an 24 and still a student, therefore would get somewhat excited at issues, and you do have more arguement capability than me(dispite me asking you to please stop it), so that places you somewhere lower than my age group. So if theres ever a arguement competition over nothing, you surely will win hands down. This round you won for sure
Thats the last word from me here. Thank you for your precious time.
Bikram

And next time please get the dimensions ,not what you read in a mag for tow rating, which you quote as axle load rating, or let me know and i'll do it for you. Also since you know him, ask Mr.Nakai and he will tell you about axle specs. I have been messing with the jonga axle for a year now, figuring how to sue a diff-lock for it, somparing its side gear to a tata 407(which i've decided to use as its tougher), but you have that german mag, dont you, specs dont matter. I knew you would say a german shepard dog would lift more weight than an elephant coz its german.

Last edited by Samurai : 12th February 2009 at 00:00. Reason: two smiley limit
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