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Old 11th February 2009, 21:45   #676
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xkcd - A Webcomic - Duty Calls
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Old 11th February 2009, 21:50   #677
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Who told you Gurkha is portal?
Dont ask me, you are the one that brought in a shaktiman axle. And yes , the hardest material for building axles is a 4140 cromoly, thats what i was told by axle builders to whom i went to get custom shafts made. The same material is used by various axle builders abroad, including currie and longfield. Even when its concerned, a 1.3 inch cromoly shaft still aint as strong as a 1.5 inch shaft made by the normally used metal(i dont remember, its got a 600 something number).
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Old 11th February 2009, 21:57   #678
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Dont ask me, you are the one that brought in a shaktiman axle. And yes , the hardest material for building axles is a 4140 cromoly, thats what i was told by axle builders to whom i went to get custom shafts made. The same material is used by various axle builders abroad, including currie and longfield. Even when its concerned, a 1.3 inch cromoly shaft still aint as strong as a 1.5 inch shaft made by the normally used metal(i dont remember, its got a 600 something number).
Bikram
I see and your axle builders in CHD build axle for Messrs HONDA, Ferrari, MB et al. Chrome moly is old tech, ever heard of cryogenic treatment of axle material, or the fact that the rear MB 407d axle is made by no less than famous designer PUCH Austria and that the Germans might have some process up their sleeves that your low tech CHD or Punjab based axle wallah wouldn't even dream of. The world is a small place to you it seems. So you base all your theories based on your axle builder in Chandigarh making axles for your JONGA? I thought you have already dissected Vikram's Gurkha and therefore know well that Gurkha is not portal axle design.

Have you heard of aluminum reinforced with ceramics being used for high tech load bearing industrial as well as automotive differentials. If you were to see their sizes, you would never believe their load capacities. In the end, load is about the tensile strength of the materials as well as the shape memory used and not size unless we are talking about gargantuan dimensions. The engineers today can easily design you a Maruti 800 van sized diff capable of bearing tonnes.

Last edited by Gurkha : 11th February 2009 at 22:05.
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Old 11th February 2009, 21:59   #679
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mods, help!
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xkcd - A Webcomic - Duty Calls
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LOL - I would miss the SLM movie for this - my pack of popcorn is now empty
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:01   #680
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Man.......ever heard of metallurgy, the fact that small puny motorcyle gearboxes can take 260+bhp or for that matter F-1 vehicles regularly take 800+bhp with small gear boxes mean anything to you? Its not about size, its about design,

is a F1 tranny capable of sustaining 800+bhp and yet it looks no bigger than a Maruti 800 tranny.
Its about design.
motorcycles and F1 cars make power with revs. They do not make much torque which really determines the size of the gears, assuming metallurgy is the same ie... hardended steel.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:04   #681
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i am not taking about punjab, but the U.S., read before you answer.
And what made you compare a tranny meant for a 800kg(or possibly lessor) and a 20' wheeel dia to a 2 ton, 32wheel dia vehicle.
Also ,aint you gurka made out of titanium, not some lessor material????
And the latest materials would be used for a gurka, and still be cheap enough, right?

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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Have you heard of aluminum reinforced with ceramics being used for high tech load bearing industrial as well as automotive differentials. If you were to see their sizes, you would never believe their load capacities.
Yes i have, but axles need to be different, not only do they need strength, they need to be flexible too. If you harden it a lot, then it looses its elasticity

Last edited by Rehaan : 11th February 2009 at 23:15. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the MULTIQUOTE button instead of making multiple consecutive posts in the same thread.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:09   #682
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i am not taking about punjab, but the U.S., read before you answer.
And what made you compare a tranny meant for a 800kg(or possibly lessor) and a 20' wheeel dia to a 2 ton, 32wheel dia vehicle.
Also ,aint you gurka made out of titanium, not some lessor material????
And the latest materials would be used for a gurka, and still be cheap enough, right?
Gurkha is made out of garbage but the diff is costlier than a Tata Safari diff..........not capable as your worthy Dana 44 though

Read my previous post before you jump to conclusions, it seems your engineering knowledge is quite rudimentary and you are still sticking to the size fixity. WOW! you get Jonga shafts made in US by a specialist manufacturer, man your Jonga must be extra special.

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Yes i have, but axles need to be different, not only do they need strength, they need to be flexible too. If you harden it a lot, then it looses its elasticity
Thats where shape memory comes in. Its about tensile strength and not size.

My last post........troll away.

Last edited by Rehaan : 11th February 2009 at 23:16. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the MULTIQUOTE button instead of making multiple consecutive posts in the same thread.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:19   #683
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oye,hoye ,yaar, jonga axles i just enquires about, and i am taking about off-road axle manufactures in the u.s. like currie. Please atleast READ.
For for you kind info, i am comparing a jonga axle to a dana44 strength, as they are equal, not against your mighty gurka axle which rightfully belong to a heavy buty truck. Why? with your superior engineering knowledge, would you pls mind telling me why a truch axle has to use thinker axle shafts, in excess of 2inches, if it could do away with a lot cheaper and lighter gurka axle.

And by the way, yes the jonga shafts are being made in the U.S. John of Rmp-o is getting them made.

and please dont go, i've just started to have fun. You seem to be the only old man with a kids attitude around here, and is vella as i am.

Last edited by Rehaan : 11th February 2009 at 23:16. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the EDIT button to add to an existing post within 20 minutes instead of posting another consecutive post.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:24   #684
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motorcycles and F1 cars make power with revs. They do not make much torque which really determines the size of the gears, assuming metallurgy is the same ie... hardended steel.
Are you willing to wager on the torque from the Audi Le Mans diesel not being high.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:25   #685
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and please dont go, i've just started to have fun. You seem to be the only old man with a kids attitude around here, and is vella as i am.
Speak for yourself...........

Yeah we all know who is the big baby, some real machismo issues here to deal with, not surprising, common occurance in that part of the world.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:44   #686
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Mercedes G-Wagen 290GD Impressions

Nice video of a 72BHP G460 chassis G Wagen review, it proves time and again, power isn't everything, proper design and implementation makes the difference.
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Old 11th February 2009, 22:46   #687
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Gentlemen do please loosen up a bit and for the sport's sake don't get personal. We are a small community of enthusiasts. We come here to have fun and hopefully meet like minded people. Its really not so important to declare one offroader as inherently better than another.

In time most of us will get a chance to meet each other at offroad events and what a drag if these meetings are weighed down by emotional baggage carried forth from here !

When I am out in the wilderness enjoying nature's spectacular beauty honestly I never think about what material my offroader's axle is made of or whether the contour of the engine's torque curve matches the distant mountains' slope.

Virtual interaction is inherently flawed as we don't see each other's faces and expressions and so much in non verbal cues is missed out. Words spoken here are open to a myriad interpretations. Just a verbal exchange here simply denies us the pleasure of knowing each other before we either accept or discard each other's company.

There are intangible elements in vehicle ownership which one can't always explain in numbers.

Jeep, Gypsy or Gurkha its more about us all having a ball with exploring the countryside with these lovely machines. Just imagine if one of us decides to join an OTR on horseback ? All the titanium in the world will not add up to the prowess of what truly might be the world's greatest offroader
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Old 12th February 2009, 00:26   #688
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
I have the antiquated 3 speed and thats the bane of this vehicle, they had to change it three times, the last one has survived around 120,000km so I am expecting it to last longer, I do use Mobil-I synthetic tranny fluid and dont push it hard anylonger. It easily redlines the HINO at 145kmph and thats the sad part.
Wow, 145 kmph!! Super!! Would love to see the beast fly by some day..
Slighty OT here, but what final drive ratio was used on the civilian Jongas and at what rpm does the Hino engine redline?


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The JEEP was a donkey cart designed to be airdropped and used and thrown away after use, even during manufacturing, far loose tolerances were specified as quantity over quality was the need. You can't even compare the sophistication of German half tracks, Kubelwagen, G Wagen to crude JEEPs meant to be dropped and used.
That's a really interesting piece of information. I have never come across any documentation that suggests so. On the contrary, all the documents and history suggests that it was to be a light reconnaissance vehicle, with 4 wheel drive, carry three soldiers and a trailer.
The jeeps were definitely airdropped though and the British Airborne Division did the droppings but modifications were made to make the jeep fit for the part.
Where did you get that "designed to be airdropped" tagline from? Please check your facts before posting..



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First of all its a Jugaroo and Gurkha is not a G Wagen, never has it ever been implied anywhere, the Gelande Wagen is a class of its own. So Gurkha is Gurkha, JUGARU JEEP IS just that.........Jugaru, plain and simple.
I agree with you here. The M&M has an obsolete chassis which is still almost the same as the WWII relics, engine from another manufacturer/s, and a body which very closely resembles the CJ5/7. Definitely a Jugaad, as you put it.

The Judo/Gurkha lineup however has a domestically designed tubular chassis which is the works. An Engine/ gearbox from another manufacturer and a bodyshell uncannily similar to the GWagen. Definetly not Jugaad, but pure Pedigree.

What super logic Sir!! Polite Applause!!

Cheers
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Old 12th February 2009, 00:33   #689
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Just imagine if one of us decides to join an OTR on horseback ? All the titanium in the world will not add up to the prowess of what truly might be the world's greatest offroader
Whoa! You baited the fans of Yaks (ones crossed with cow) and camels. Let's not go off-topic on which animal is the greatest offroader.

Gotzuk, let's not open a fresh chapter of this again. Let's respect the cease fire.
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Old 12th February 2009, 08:51   #690
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Wow, 145 kmph!! Super!! Would love to see the beast fly by some day..
Slighty OT here, but what final drive ratio was used on the civilian Jongas and at what rpm does the Hino engine redline?




That's a really interesting piece of information. I have never come across any documentation that suggests so. On the contrary, all the documents and history suggests that it was to be a light reconnaissance vehicle, with 4 wheel drive, carry three soldiers and a trailer.
The jeeps were definitely airdropped though and the British Airborne Division did the droppings but modifications were made to make the jeep fit for the part.
Where did you get that "designed to be airdropped" tagline from? Please check your facts before posting..





I agree with you here. The M&M has an obsolete chassis which is still almost the same as the WWII relics, engine from another manufacturer/s, and a body which very closely resembles the CJ5/7. Definitely a Jugaad, as you put it.

The Judo/Gurkha lineup however has a domestically designed tubular chassis which is the works. An Engine/ gearbox from another manufacturer and a bodyshell uncannily similar to the GWagen. Definetly not Jugaad, but pure Pedigree.

What super logic Sir!! Polite Applause!!

Cheers
HINO W04D redlines at 3200 RPM.

Allies had no choice but to airdrop JEEPs so during its design, the military made that a prime stipulation. I have checked my facts, kindly check yours.

ORIGIN OF THE MILITARY JEEP

Weight not to exceed 1200 pounds (increased to 1275 lbs 1 July and then to 1308 lbs)

Now for some Gurkha/Judo facts, first of all, you haven't the foggiest, the tubular chassis was never designed domestically as you put it. It was designed my M/S Vidal Sohne and lated bought out by MB to be used in their Tempo range of vehicles. Secondly, its OEM, it uses MB designed parts and Force till few years back were technical partners with MB so its not a case of another manufacturer as you put it. Yes it does look like the G Wagen but then thats not its fault, MB decided to allow Force to make a vehicle based on G460 body type. Every other global vehicle manufacturer use parts from another platform, Toyota FJ uses Prado tranny so I guess in your books its a JUGAAR.

Now let me define JUGAAR for you, buy a battered relic of the past made by a company of questionable repute. Just go and utter the word Mahindra to countries which had the misfortune of importing the CJ and you will see some fantastic praise uttered on Messrs Mahindra. UK, Aus and other parts which got the CJ comes to my mind.

DIFFLOCK.com - Buyer's Guide



Check out owner and magazine reports on Mahindra CJ. Also at least the Gurkha and Judo uses tried and tested MB technology, what does Mahindra use. Engine from Pukegot, tranny from Kia and I would wager a guess that the diff is original, so who is their technical partners by the way, the global junkyard I guess. Lastly the JEEPs in question are not even Mahindra ironically, they are true jugaards, nothing wrong with that but then that don't exactly make them a world class world beater. You fix em, drive em and fix em again, thats the motto of Jugaars. They use parts from various other vehicles, sometimes an uncanny mix and again, thats not a wrong thing to do, except it doesnt make the real thing.

Now JEEP Fanboyz go back to your JEEP worship thread.

I take a bow now.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : WATCH THE TONE. Requesting that a decent communication protocol be adhered to. Foul language is STRICTLY prohibited.

Last edited by GTO : 12th February 2009 at 15:14. Reason: Foul Language
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