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Old 26th March 2009, 21:11   #841
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
MAN increased their stake in the JV by buying equity from Force. Who know, pretty soon they will kick Force out of the JV. Probably because of their lethargic management again.

Who is talking about component quality? We all agree that the TRAX has a good foundation and the basic product is good.

We are talking about a company that has no idea what the customer wants and at what price point. They dont know how to modify and adaprt the product. It does not know how to communicate with customer and provide the service they need. Mahindra and the way they brought about the success of the Bolero is a shining example of a role model for Force.
Are you aware that Gurkha is in a different class than Bolero, it would never be a commercial success for what it is and any move to make it so would compromise its purpose, actually I feel it already has to an extent with the new model. Neither would they be able to price it in Bolero's range. Face it, Bolero would not be Gurkha and Gurkha would never be a vehicle for all.

As for the JV situation, I am sure Messrs Toyota feel the same way about Kirloskar and its not the first time a foreign company has booted its Indian partner, Yamaha did the same, so did HONDA. That won't negate the fact that critical components for MB and MAN has been made by incompetent FORCE for years so I guess that was an oversight on their part.
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Old 26th March 2009, 21:40   #842
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I'm looking for a jeep and have heard great things about the Trax Gurkha (2400 mm SWB) from Bajaj Tempo. Supposed to have awesome offroad abilities. Can anyone suggest where I can get more dope on it, since one has to place an order to get it? (There's almost no possibility of a test-drive as it's only available on a made-to-order basis.) Does anyone own one? Are there any road reports on it? Comments, guys...
MODs... can we close this thread. Posted above is the starting post by the thread starter

I guess it has outlived it's utility and more things have been answered than the user has actually asked for. We are now just

Last edited by rhandle : 26th March 2009 at 21:43.
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Old 26th March 2009, 22:09   #843
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
...Force gets enough from its overseas commitments plus their work for MAN takes and manufacturing MB engines and trannies take up their full workforce. They simply don't have the time or care about domestic market, like it or not. ....



I guess their priorities are different...hope they would focus more on the Indian ORV market.
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Old 30th March 2009, 22:22   #844
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Gurka is in a separate class, how so? Both are old school body on ladder frame SUVs with front IFS, rear solid axle with leaf springs. High GC, low overhangs, optional 4x4, closely matched OTR capability. Old school 4cyl diesel engines around 2.5 liter capacity, different seating variants, old parts bin content that is depreciated and tooling paid for.
If anything, its the Trax line that is more roomy interiors with better ride quality and more wheelbase/door choices.

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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Are you aware that Gurkha is in a different class than Bolero, it would never be a commercial success for what it is and any move to make it so would compromise its purpose, actually I feel it already has to an extent with the new model. Neither would they be able to price it in Bolero's range. Face it, Bolero would not be Gurkha and Gurkha would never be a vehicle for all.

As for the JV situation, I am sure Messrs Toyota feel the same way about Kirloskar and its not the first time a foreign company has booted its Indian partner, Yamaha did the same, so did HONDA. That won't negate the fact that critical components for MB and MAN has been made by incompetent FORCE for years so I guess that was an oversight on their part.
Yes, Kirloskar, Sriram are all in the same category and Force is too. Maybe Force should stick to machining and assembling the beloved Mercedes engines and leave sales, marketing and product planning to more competent company.

Last edited by Mpower : 31st March 2009 at 01:01.
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Old 31st March 2009, 20:52   #845
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Going by this thread, the only thing it doesn't do is 'fly'. I wish I could see a Gurkha in some real 4x4 action IN INDIA and not just empty paper/history talk.
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Old 31st March 2009, 20:58   #846
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Heck I would be glad even if I saw some paper history! All I see is one man talking about some tests and studies on a G-wagon. No links, no details, no road tests on the Gurkha which is sold in India!
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Old 31st March 2009, 21:40   #847
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Guys. The German 4WD magazine has declared the Gurkha the best off-roader in the world. I think the argument ends there. </Sarcasm>

In the team-bhp OTR jeeps/gypsy's have performed on par if not better.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 31st March 2009 at 21:42.
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Old 31st March 2009, 22:39   #848
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys. The German 4WD magazine has declared the Gurkha the best off-roader in the world. I think the argument ends there. </Sarcasm>

In the team-bhp OTR jeeps/gypsy's have performed on par if not better.
If you go through the my post on this topic, you can see a link from the spec-list. With everything specified, its axle-specs show that they are weaker than even Dana44's, and the supposedly owesome 3750kgs towing weight is basically calculated as 1.5times a vehilces GVW(gross vehicle weight). Not that i hate the vehicle, as it sure has some goodies that none other has in the Indian market, but i beleive it was never designed to be a hard-core offroader churning up rocks and dunes, but rather be a regular farm vehicle, just like a land rover(which coincedently too suffers from weak salisbury axles), which besides its offroad feature, has to provide not only the ability to haul farm produce in light limits(compared to tractors), but also go around the farm perimeter, which can be ultra huge abroad, in as much comfort as it could afford, and that i think is the primary reason why they shunned the solid front axle of the vehicle its copied from and went over with the independent system of the earlier matador. Just like what a pickup does in the states.
And this is the primary reason why it does well in Austria, where they're looking for a lot cheaper alternative for the Puch/Mercedes G-wagon.
By the way, i wonder what language they speak in Austria. German? Hitler was from Austria and he surely did speak german. I ask this since i think this spec-list(a part of the test-report from an Auto-mag) mentions a town called Friedberg, which exists in both the countries.
Force, if they can afford to take some time off their hectic schedule, can do some(or a lot of) touching up of their products and their service-centers, and place it in the market at a price that atleast can be justified, would surely grab them some customers. I just don't understand why they would not come out of their praying mantis stance.
Now i better keep my mouth shut or there'll be another ban heading towards me.
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Old 31st March 2009, 23:58   #849
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Guys High resolution pages of the Grukha/Judo ,test and comparison between gypsy and classic.
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
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Old 1st April 2009, 09:53   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
...

...Gurkha was meant for off road, it was never to be used for on road and off road is where it excels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
....

I am just wondering which 'off-road terrain' it excels in. For example, when we talk of Gypsy we can immediately say that it excels in Sand and slush - because of it's light weight. The jeeps in rock crawling etc..

I think what we at times tend to generalize this term called 'off-road'. At times people call a jungle trail an off-road, some call bad roads an off-road, some call agriculture fields an off-road, some will say only a 'rubicon' or 'rain forest challenge' to be an off-road, for some sand is off-road. And in EACH terrain you need a different setup for your off-roader. What works in sand in Middle east may not work in Rubicon trail and so on..

....
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Every kind of terrain you can throw at it. Thats the beauty, be it rocky or sandy depending as long as you know how to use it. Bear in mind different trails need different kind of tires specific to terrain.

No generalizations, an off road trail is an off road trail period, be it US or India, of course, the level of difficulty varies and so does the machine.
....
This is like saying 'car racing track is a car racing track' -- it doesn't matter that be it drag racing or F1 or closed track or 24 hr Le Mans etc etc.

So by your logic, Gurkha is the off-road equivalent of a racing car being 'the best' irrespective of the tracks & kind of racing -- drag, F1, closed track etc etc.. Just change the tyres and you are all set -- as long as you know how to use it .

Last edited by khan_sultan : 1st April 2009 at 09:57.
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Old 1st April 2009, 11:04   #851
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Originally Posted by dinar View Post
Guys High resolution pages of the Grukha/Judo ,test and comparison between gypsy and classic.
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
25MB file... excellent. Downloading it right now.
Thanks a bunch, dinar.
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Old 1st April 2009, 11:24   #852
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Dear Dinar & Mods,
Could you please help us with this file?
It seems like the file cannot be downloaded by more than 10 users.
Thank you very much.
Warm Regards,
Deepak
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Old 1st April 2009, 11:37   #853
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Even iam finding some error message on the down load
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Old 1st April 2009, 11:39   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Going by this thread, the only thing it doesn't do is 'fly'. I wish I could see a Gurkha in some real 4x4 action IN INDIA and not just empty paper/history talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Heck I would be glad even if I saw some paper history! All I see is one man talking about some tests and studies on a G-wagon. No links, no details, no road tests on the Gurkha which is sold in India!

Bhai log if you search you will get it. Khan everyone likes their vehicle. Your comment is like you are trying to put down the vehicle but more a BHPian!

A test drive by auto magzine is here

It is quite old so please bear.

In India at least I know few people who have seen this competent vehicle in incompetent hands - Mine :(

The thing is how would you feel if I say what you are trying to do is to make your vehicle (Gypsy?) more like Gurkha. I guess buying a new Gypsy and then doing all those mods would become a more costly affair than Gurkha, and I do not think you would even get a 3 years 300,000 KMS warranty either on your gypsy or the parts you have put in. Also I can say comfortably your gypsy after all these mods wont be the perfect daily commuter.

NOW my point is lets not fight over things which do not matter. Whether your or mine vehicle can fly or not is not my concern. I would more appreciate if you guys can teach me few things. You know the technical details more than me and have vast experience in driving on 4WD terrain, teach me or other newbies few things positive which we can do with Gurkha rather than fighting over who is right or wrong. Lets concentrate on what is on our hands and how we TOGETHER can make this place more COHESIVE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Dear Dinar & Mods,
Could you please help us with this file?
It seems like the file cannot be downloaded by more than 10 users.
Thank you very much.
Warm Regards,
Deepak
I will try and upload it to another location for you.
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Old 1st April 2009, 11:48   #855
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys. The German 4WD magazine has declared the Gurkha the best off-roader in the world. I think the argument ends there. </Sarcasm>

In the team-bhp OTR jeeps/gypsy's have performed on par if not better.
Of course not, the Jeeps and Gypsies are lord of OTR in India and the Gurkha is merely a figment of imagination of German mags, German fools who buy it as well as Indian retards, myself included.

How can they even touch the hallowed grounds where Jeeps tread. Sacrilegious.
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