Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th May 2009, 18:47   #901
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mysore
Posts: 19
Thanked: Once
Default Sumo 4x4 for 5.5 Lakhs

Tata Sumo 4X4!

They have re-started selling of sumo 4x4, the price for which starts at 5.5L.

A high end version is also available for 7L.

Check the price in your area with the following link.

TATA MOTORS: Sumo Victa

It comes with 4x4 in which you can switch to 4x4 on the fly.

It comes with 3 years warranty.

Ganesh Laxmanmurthy

Tata Sumo Victa
Tata Spacio Gold SA
lganimys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2009, 21:49   #902
Senior - BHPian
 
Blue Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Right here .
Posts: 1,630
Thanked: 328 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lganimys View Post
...They have re-started selling of sumo 4x4, the price for which starts at 5.5L....
Did you get this information from someone in Tata or is it just based on the web-site?

Last edited by Blue Thunder : 10th May 2009 at 22:06.
Blue Thunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 00:53   #903
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,889
Thanked: 2,310 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
What I want = Gama 4WD +AC +PS + Diff locks.
But I will never get this from Force. I guess Force is telling me "it is life, not picnic".
You are correct mate. This used to available in a vehicle called the Judo from force but has since been discontinued so if you want the 4 door you get only 4WD and no PS and AC and with the much lower powered engine. These guys at Force live in another planet and in a couple of years they will reach earth to find that the world has moved on..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
But Iím happy to settle for Gama 4WD. Iím not too keen on travelling to places where I need to queue up to possibly get stuck and hopefully come out of it (off-roading). Of course, I absolutely respect the intensions of the guys who do it.

Questions to all those who invented the wheel:
a) What is Gama 4wd worth if my requirement is to get through a 2~3 km patch to reach the farm? My folks tell me their Bolero Camper canít get through this 2km path during monsoon months. I trust them - I have never seen this patch though.
b) Differentials in Gama 4wd - is it Open or LSD or other (such as Torsen)?
Cheers.
Is their Bolero Camper 4WD? Arka has posted some videos in another thread where the Bolero Camper performed pretty well on an off road trip. If your friends Bolero Camper is 2WD it is not a valid comparison.

Gama 4WD is not worth it my friend. If you are keen on a Force Motors vehicle, I would advice the Gurkha. If not, you are better off with a Bolero 4WD which is a thousand times more refined than the Gama. And since you don't plan any hard core off-roading the Bolero 4WD will meet your needs. It has to be ordered but so has the Gama 4WD and you rill probably get the Bolero much faster than the Gama.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 18:57   #904
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 39
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
Questions to all those who invented the wheel:
a) What is Gama 4wd worth if my requirement is to get through a 2~3 km patch to reach the farm? My folks tell me their Bolero Camper canít get through this 2km path during monsoon months. I trust them - I have never seen this patch though.
b) Differentials in Gama 4wd - is it Open or LSD or other (such as Torsen)?

Cheers.
Let me answer my own questions. Thanks to all for putting up with my posts while Iím learning.

a) Trax Gama 4wd has front and rear differentials that are "open". There is no central differential.
b) In other words, Trax Gama has 4wd that is part-time.
c) Technically it is possible to add diff locks on Gama 4wd. But Force has it own reasons not to do it.
d) As mentioned in my earlier post, I believe, diff locks and turbo charger are the key enhancements in Gurkha. I must add that Iím unclear if the front axel is the same in both models.

I understand part-time 4wd with open diff is a better off-roader than a full-time 4wd even with LSD. Of course part-time 4wd with diff-locks would be the best setup in off-roading. Hence all the ga-ga over Gurkha with diff locks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Is their Bolero Camper 4WD?

Gama 4WD is not worth it my friend. If you are keen on a Force Motors vehicle, I would advice the Gurkha. If not, you are better off with a Bolero 4WD which is a thousand times more refined than the Gama. And since you don't plan any hard core off-roading the Bolero 4WD will meet your needs. It has to be ordered but so has the Gama 4WD and you rill probably get the Bolero much faster than the Gama.
Thanks for your response. We got Bolero Camper 2wd. I would certainly be interested in knowing about the transmission and differential setup in Camperís 4wd version. Do you have any information on that one?
bliss_now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 19:31   #905
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
a) Trax Gama 4wd has front and rear differentials that are "open". There is no central differential.
b) In other words, Trax Gama has 4wd that is part-time.
This will hold good for every 4WD made by Mahindra & Tata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
c) Technically it is possible to add diff locks on Gama 4wd. But Force has it own reasons not to do it.
You can add diff locks to any 4WD, you need the dough to import the parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
d) As mentioned in my earlier post, I believe, diff locks and turbo charger are the key enhancements in Gurkha. I must add that I’m unclear if the front axel is the same in both models.
Gurkha has IFS, even Gama I think. So, there is no front axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
I understand part-time 4wd with open diff is a better off-roader than a full-time 4wd even with LSD.
Your understanding is not correct. The part-time & full-time concept has a bearing on on-road driving, not offroad driving. Offroad, both kind of vehicles will be in 4WD.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2009, 18:31   #906
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 39
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Your understanding is not correct. The part-time & full-time concept has a bearing on on-road driving, not offroad driving. Offroad, both kind of vehicles will be in 4WD.
Samurai,
First let me acknowledge that your off-road driving knowledge is from practical experience. My knowledge is mostly theoretical. I have been driving Subaru AWD for many years but never participated in off-road events. Mostly it was extreme snow conditions where I learnt to use tyre-chains.

However, Samurai, I believe your remark regarding part-time and full-time 4wd is not correct and here is why.

Consider an off-road situation where one wheel gets into very-low (or zero) traction situation. This is how part-time and full-time will respond.

Assumption: Front/Rear diffs are open and have no locks in both part-time and full-time 4wd setups. Power is equally distributed to each wheel (25% each).

Full time 4wd: The central diff will divert all the power (100%) to that zero-traction wheel. This leaves the remaining wheels power-less and that one zero-traction wheel spinning.

Part-time 4wd: There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 50% power. This is because of Open front/rear diff which results in 25% power from good wheel gets directed to zero-traction wheel. BUT, you still have 50% power available to the remaining two wheels and can possibly come of the situation.

Essentially, Part-time 4wd = Full-time 4wd + Central diff lock.

{ Better setup:
Part-time 4wd + front and rear diff locks:
There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 25% power. This is because you use front or rear diff. You still have 75% power available to the remaining three wheels and can possibly come of the situation. }

Now, you are absolutely correct about on-road driving. In fact my original remark is regarding off-road driving and not on-road.

But sir all this is in ideal conditions. A lot depends on the combination of the man and the machine - as you know by experience.

Cheers.
bliss_now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2009, 21:44   #907
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
Samurai,
First let me acknowledge that your off-road driving knowledge is from practical experience. My knowledge is mostly theoretical.
I do have a fulltime 4WD and a part-time 4WD. My limited experience comes from offroading in both the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
However, Samurai, I believe your remark regarding part-time and full-time 4wd is not correct and here is why.
Not really, look at my remarks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
Assumption: Front/Rear diffs are open and have no locks in both part-time and full-time 4wd setups. Power is equally distributed to each wheel (25% each).

Full time 4wd: The central diff will divert all the power (100%) to that zero-traction wheel. This leaves the remaining wheels power-less and that one zero-traction wheel spinning.
This is only possible if you have an open center differential. Can you name a fulltime 4WD vehicle with open center differential? Further, what would be the purpose of a fulltime 4WD with open center differential, which would be stuck even if one wheel slips? I have never seen or heard of open center differential in a fulltime 4WD vehicle. It would be pointless in an offroad vehicle. As far as I have seen, all fulltime 4WD vehicles come with limited slip differential on the center diff, which will avoid the situation you describe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
Part-time 4wd: There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 50% power. This is because of Open front/rear diff which results in 25% power from good wheel gets directed to zero-traction wheel. BUT, you still have 50% power available to the remaining two wheels and can possibly come of the situation.

Essentially, Part-time 4wd = Full-time 4wd + Central diff lock.
This is fine. But do note that most fulltime 4WD vehicles do allow you to lock the center diff. When I get into offroad situation with Grand Vitara, I do have the option of locking the center diff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
{ Better setup:
Part-time 4wd + front and rear diff locks:
There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 25% power. This is because you use front or rear diff. You still have 75% power available to the remaining three wheels and can possibly come of the situation. }
What is even better is Fulltime 4WD + Lockable LSD on Central Diff + front and rear diffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
Now, you are absolutely correct about on-road driving. In fact my original remark is regarding off-road driving and not on-road.
Highway Driving: Fulltime 4WD is way superior compared to parttime 4WD.
Offroad Driving: If the fulltime 4WD locks the central diff, then it is same as parttime 4WD, here I am discounting all other attributes of the vehicles.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2009, 18:29   #908
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 39
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is only possible if you have an open center differential. Can you name a fulltime 4WD vehicle with open center differential? Further, what would be the purpose of a fulltime 4WD with open center differential, which would be stuck even if one wheel slips? I have never seen or heard of open center differential in a fulltime 4WD vehicle. It would be pointless in an offroad vehicle. As far as I have seen, all fulltime 4WD vehicles come with limited slip differential on the center diff, which will avoid the situation you describe.
I believe you do have such vehicles. People looking for slightly better control than 2wd but cannot afford a full fledged off-roader (LSD increases the cost). One of my friend has Chrysler Voyager 4wd with Centre Open Diff. May be that he likes to have Full-time-4wd sticker on his car.

I believe we agree with most of the other points.

Thanks for the conversation. cheers.
bliss_now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2009, 18:39   #909
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,043
Thanked: 13,496 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss_now View Post
One of my friend has Chrysler Voyager 4wd with Centre Open Diff. May be that he likes to have Full-time-4wd sticker on his car.
I thought we were discussing offroaders here, why bring in a mini-van? But I see it does have traction control.

Last edited by Samurai : 13th May 2009 at 18:42.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2009, 19:35   #910
USR
Newbie
 
USR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delhi / Dharamshala
Posts: 16
Thanked: Once
Default

So true. i Was just trying to be over smart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhandle View Post
LoL used Gurkha --> Bechne jaoge bikegee nahin, kharidne jaoge toh milegee nahin(if you go to sell it you wont be able to sell it and if you go to buy it you wont be able to buy it).
USR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2009, 20:43   #911
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,889
Thanked: 2,310 Times
Default

Full time 4WD with center diff lock is much better than part time 4WD for the simple reason that cars handle better when power is applied to all the four wheels rather than just two wheels. This will be useful when taking turns driving in slippery conditions etc and unless you are really stuck you don't have to stop to engage 4WD. The draw back is that mileage will be lower than the same vehicle without full time 4WD.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2009, 04:23   #912
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 39
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I thought we were discussing offroaders here, why bring in a mini-van? But I see it does have traction control.
Samurai-san,

So-desu-ne (I agree). I stand corrected.

Yoku kiri-masu-ne.

Cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Full time 4WD with center diff lock is much better than part time 4WD for the simple reason that cars handle better when power is applied to all the four wheels rather than just two wheels. This will be useful when taking turns driving in slippery conditions etc and unless you are really stuck you don't have to stop to engage 4WD. The draw back is that mileage will be lower than the same vehicle without full time 4WD.
Agreed. Full time 4wd with center diff lock gives good balance between on-road and off-road driving. Hence expensive.

cheers.

Last edited by Samurai : 16th May 2009 at 10:40.
bliss_now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2009, 01:21   #913
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 47
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Om611 Crdi

HI TO ALL GUYS,,,i need ur help,,,,,inform each & evry member abt this, this is like a vote,,,how many of ull would like to have a trax gurkha with the new OM611 CRDI 125 BHP. It may come on both either the trax gama or the gurkha, If ther is a good response then only it will be available on the gurkha. First it wil be coming on the travller then only we can expect it on gurkha. any suggestions feel free to say as this wil be put up at Force Motors. If u hav any suggestions on the gurkha with the TD 2650 DI engine please come forward. i need to make a list abt the customer expectations regarding price ,interiors & exterior. Please i request everyone to come forward & give their review.
Thanks.
Ashwat Pujari
ashu_82_2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2009, 11:12   #914
Senior - BHPian
 
vinod_nookala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 410 Times
Default Forced poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu_82_2001 View Post
HI TO ALL GUYS,,,i need ur help,,,,,inform each & evry member abt this, this is like a vote,,,how many of ull would like to have a trax gurkha with the new OM611 CRDI 125 BHP. It may come on both either the trax gama or the gurkha, If ther is a good response then only it will be available on the gurkha. First it wil be coming on the travller then only we can expect it on gurkha. any suggestions feel free to say as this wil be put up at Force Motors. If u hav any suggestions on the gurkha with the TD 2650 DI engine please come forward. i need to make a list abt the customer expectations regarding price ,interiors & exterior. Please i request everyone to come forward & give their review.
Thanks.
Ashwat Pujari
Aswat pujari,
Are you the guy from Force motors? If yes good to see you here and good to learn force is trying to go customer centric.If you go through the compelete thread carefully, i dont think you need to take a poll all over again!!

1. Almost every one wants to have OM611 CRDi and some have posponed thier buying decision waiting for this engine. so bring it on!

2. Current Gurkha pricing is absurd. Every body says that. So an increase in price with OM 611 crdi engine would kill the product all the more. I expect the vehicle to be priced at 7.5 lakhs on road with CRDi engine

3. Interiors, owners have already commented and i need not eloberate further. Please do away with Premier padmini kind of dash board to a more up market one and provide better a/c controls and all. Quality of vehicle is of supreme importance

4. The factor you must consider the most is your dealer support which you missed in your message. Please make them more customer sensetive and provide them information from company end.

5. Please provide a/c , p/s, 4wd and rear diff lock as an option on GAMA. All this for 6.8 lakh on road

Address the above issues, i dont see any reason for Force not doing 3000 units every month in Gurkha and gama category
vinod_nookala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 06:21   #915
BHPian
 
rhandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 554
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

your points on pricing I wont support. I am sure that pricing is not only right but infact cheaper than M&M and Tata.
rhandle is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tyre for Trax Gurkha rhandle Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 48 12th September 2011 07:24
Trax Gurkha Test Drive on Horrible roads and Off-road too Samurai 4x4 Vehicles 271 24th June 2011 11:57
Om611 Crdi 125bhp For Trax Gurkha? ashu_82_2001 4x4 Technical 99 1st April 2010 19:24
Modding a Tempo Trax VooDoo Modifications & Accessories 24 25th March 2009 18:51
mm 540 or the trax gurkha?? sanket12 SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 13 22nd June 2007 12:19


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:28.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks