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Old 17th March 2010, 16:21   #1036
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Probably its not "As good as it gets". Like dinar said, good to look at, but in the long term a really difficult vehicle to live with?
Seriously, when you have a 7-8 lakh vehicle, it better be usable out of the box. Having features like diff locks etc., are good, but without proper support, this vehicle is not going to be easy to own.
Very true. Me too was initially awed at the 4x4 hardware, but then I realized for a Touring vehicle, I just wanted a decent 4x4 and for 8+ lakh, I felt that Force motors was really short changing us on refinement and quality. So I decided that If I was going to spend 8 lakhs plus, I wanted atleast the comfort and refinement of a Safari or Scorpio.
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Old 18th March 2010, 22:12   #1037
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Probably its not "As good as it gets". Like dinar said, good to look at, but in the long term a really difficult vehicle to live with?
Seriously, when you have a 7-8 lakh vehicle, it better be usable out of the box. Having features like diff locks etc., are good, but without proper support, this vehicle is not going to be easy to own.
Well woes of Safari has not yet bogged down!! In 75K kms recently I had to get the clutch replaced 3rd time.

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Originally Posted by hisunil View Post
I think people have a different reason for Sale, just my guess , now don't ask me what the real reason is? its surly not that they have realized poor support all of a sudden.

Cheers
Sunil


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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Very true. Me too was initially awed at the 4x4 hardware, but then I realized for a Touring vehicle, I just wanted a decent 4x4 and for 8+ lakh, I felt that Force motors was really short changing us on refinement and quality. So I decided that If I was going to spend 8 lakhs plus, I wanted atleast the comfort and refinement of a Safari or Scorpio.
Comfort of Safari not even scorpio can match! On road nothing to beat Safari in that range. Safari 4x4 is lot more costlier than Gurkha. If Force comes out with LWB then only the comfort levels can be matched.

Good part with gypsy/jeep or safari is there are lot of past experiences to set things right. I had none when I had Gurkha. in SWB rear bench seat can never ever give you comfort as the people sit high and are on wheel arch. This would be true for any SWB vehicle.

The thing in nutshell is Safari cannot do the kind of OTR I have done and not go to the service station. TSk did not even tried certain things the only time he was at the NIOC OTR.

I have just started OTR hardly 14 months, and that too in a new vehicle.

Lets talk about a Gypsy or MM550, and if we try to bring up to levels of Gurkha they would go over the cost of Gurkha. This I am saying because I had literally booked Gypsy and had taken the costs of every modification. The day the guy had to come to pick the booking money he did not come and it was postponed to next day. But then many things and talks happened overnight with fellow Gypsy owners here and I changed my mind to buy a new one, though still tempted towards getting a 2nd hand one and modifying that.
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Old 19th March 2010, 12:33   #1038
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Lets talk about a Gypsy or MM550, and if we try to bring up to levels of Gurkha they would go over the cost of Gurkha. This I am saying because I had literally booked Gypsy and had taken the costs of every modification. The day the guy had to come to pick the booking money he did not come and it was postponed to next day. But then many things and talks happened overnight with fellow Gypsy owners here and I changed my mind to buy a new one, though still tempted towards getting a 2nd hand one and modifying that.
Hi Rahul,

What levels.

Off-Road the Gurkha manages to do with differential Locks engaged what JEEPs and Gypsy's do with open diffs.

What about JEEPs & Gypsy's with Locked Diffs, what advantage will the Gurkha have?

Its heavier hence under powered with the current FTI Di-Turbo Engine.

The the Gear Ratios Between First & Second are well spaced
1st 4.7:1
2nd 2.4:1

Low Ratio is 2.04:1

so compound Ratio is
4.7 X 2.04 = 9.5
2.4 X 2.04 = 4.8

i.e 2nd Low is almost similar to 1st High .

To compensate you need a engine with higher torque out put and/or a free revving engine to exploit the 1st Gear Low, which the OM616T could do much better.

The Real Advantage the Gurkha has is its a much better All-Rounder, as its road manners and attributes are much much better then than the Solid Axle Leaf Spring M&M JEEPs, but that is the M&M's strength off-road.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 19th March 2010, 12:37   #1039
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Get Arka in a MM540 and Gurkha(the member) in well a Gurkha(the vehicle) and set them lose on a trail without food or water. We will stand at the end with apples and oranges.
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Old 19th March 2010, 13:03   #1040
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Get Arka in a MM540 and Gurkha(the member) in well a Gurkha(the vehicle) and set them lose on a trail without food or water. We will stand at the end with apples and oranges.
I surrender in advance, I am not worthy of such a showdown, neither is my vehicle. The sheer experience, pedigree of the man and machine covering world's toughest challenge, heavens, that would indeed be a preposterous scenario and carnage. I just don't have the courage for all that.
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Old 19th March 2010, 13:36   #1041
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Get Arka in a MM540 and Gurkha(the member) in well a Gurkha(the vehicle) and set them lose on a trail without food or water. We will stand at the end with apples and oranges.
Ha Ha, Aren't we doing that already on the internet.
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Old 19th March 2010, 14:18   #1042
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Rahul,

What levels.

Off-Road the Gurkha manages to do with differential Locks engaged what JEEPs and Gypsy's do with open diffs.

What about JEEPs & Gypsy's with Locked Diffs, what advantage will the Gurkha have?

Its heavier hence under powered with the current FTI Di-Turbo Engine.

The the Gear Ratios Between First & Second are well spaced
1st 4.7:1
2nd 2.4:1

Low Ratio is 2.04:1

so compound Ratio is
4.7 X 2.04 = 9.5
2.4 X 2.04 = 4.8

i.e 2nd Low is almost similar to 1st High .

To compensate you need a engine with higher torque out put and/or a free revving engine to exploit the 1st Gear Low, which the OM616T could do much better.

The Real Advantage the Gurkha has is its a much better All-Rounder, as its road manners and attributes are much much better then than the Solid Axle Leaf Spring M&M JEEPs, but that is the M&M's strength off-road.

Regards,

Arka

You have nailed it Arka. Gurkhas 2 low is almost similar to first high!! In jeeps 3 low is almost equal to 1st high. In a jeep second low has higher torque. This is the precise reason i said Gurkha feels underpowered. Gurkhas second LOW doesn't have enough power coupled with a low reving engine @ about 3200 to 3500 rpm what do you expect it to do? Jeep It cannot attain enough speed momentum to clear an obstacle, first is almost the double of second gear ratio, the moment you change to 1st there occurs a wheel spin be it with diff locks on or off and most important you loose momentum.

Anybody who has taken vehicle off road who has driven it on various terrain would understand what i am talking about. 1 lakh plus ON ROAD experience doesn't matter. I am taking about real world off road driving experience!

BTW - We had Nawab Sahebs Gurkha with supreme OM 616 turbo engine in Palar. Was felt underpowered and couldn't make a climb which archaic WWII jeeps made with their rickety body and unreliable power train. Iam not even talking about beach cruisers here which were flying on sand as expected

p.s- For the information of desktop off roaders 2 low is the best ratio for slush and muck and 3 low is best for charging sand dunes

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 19th March 2010 at 14:20.
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Old 7th April 2010, 17:36   #1043
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Default New SUV from Force Motors?

The below link says that the vehicle is being launched by Force Motors.

Any idea of when that would happen?

Would it actually be the new Gurkha?

Force Motors to launch new SUV in India | Rush Lane
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Old 7th April 2010, 19:49   #1044
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Originally Posted by lganimys View Post
The below link says that the vehicle is being launched by Force Motors.

Any idea of when that would happen?

Would it actually be the new Gurkha?

Force Motors to launch new SUV in India | Rush Lane
This kind of stuff I heard in 2006. Waited two years to see it, and then just bought what they were offering.

I still have my doubts, if it would get releases this year!

I hope they come out soon or I would be having Gypsy before winter sets in.
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Old 22nd April 2010, 22:47   #1045
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Default New Force Morors SUV - Spy Shot

Hey Friends:

The SUV from force seems to be more of real now.

I found a link showing the spy shot

Spy Shots : Force Motors SUV spotted | Rush Lane

Ganesh Laxmanmurthy
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Old 23rd April 2010, 06:27   #1046
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The article says that the SUV is targeted at the rural market and is pitted against the Bolero. But still they will price it at 10 Lakhs. Isn't that making sure that the product fails even before its launched.

Someone at Force Motors needs to have their brains checked.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 09:56   #1047
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Someone at Force Motors needs to have their brains checked.
This is not an easy task. To check someone brain, they would need to have a brain first.

Some of our auto journalists aren't exactly knowledgeable as well so 10 lakhs could be pure speculation. If they want to compete with the Bolero, they will have to price it in the Bolero range. This may end up becoming like the Bhagira Limited Edition i.e. Limited to a single piece - the first prototype.
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Old 24th April 2010, 02:41   #1048
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This is not an easy task. To check someone brain, they would need to have a brain first.

Some of our auto journalists aren't exactly knowledgeable as well so 10 lakhs could be pure speculation. If they want to compete with the Bolero, they will have to price it in the Bolero range. This may end up becoming like the Bhagira Limited Edition i.e. Limited to a single piece - the first prototype.
Agree.
Though the pic is not that clear, the body shape looks more like Tata Sumo. Also, 10 lakhs for a Force SUV.... . Even though if its upgraded Gurkha/ Baghira II whatever.. For 10 Lakhs, the rulal folks can buy Safaris & Scopios. May be Getways & Xenons... More purposeful for that kid of budget.

If launched as a competetion to Bolero, it MUST be priced lower than Bolero.
Its purely MHO

Last edited by offroad_maniac : 24th April 2010 at 02:48.
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Old 24th April 2010, 13:29   #1049
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Default New Force SUV

Hi:

The below page says that the SUV is Ford Endeavour like vehicle.

http://***************.com/category/spy-pictures

May be true as they might have built the shape on Cruiser chassis. The only required change might be that the leaf spring at the back might be replaced by coils.

In this way the same chassis could be modded in to a crossover like Innova or similar car.

The engine might be the same existing DI engine with a piezo electric common rail pump, turbocharger and intercooler to match BS IV standards.

Ganesh Laxmanmurthy
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Old 24th April 2010, 16:09   #1050
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If you follow the thread and the other Force Motors threads from the beginning apparently this is an all new vehicle borrowed from the Chinese. It is a Chinese CKD vehicle assembled by Force Motors. Frankly I trust the Chinese more than Force Motors they at-least know to copy a product much better than Force.

If force can put in the OM611 and price it correctly I think it will give the Bolero some good competition, but then again we are talking about Force Motors here..

I guess by know many of this Forum would have realized my intense scorn for Force Motors, but franky I cannot respect a company that had access to Mercedes technology and platforms and didn't have the guts to stand up to Mahindra and Tata who have done well with vehicles that were far inferior to the Tempo Trax when they were launched.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 24th April 2010 at 16:11.
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