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Old 25th April 2013, 23:03   #166
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
hi,
After Rebuilding XD3P, no owner seems 100% happy
Thats odd. I rebuilt my xd3p from mahindra authorised service station and no trouble whatsoever in the last 3 years and 20k kms.

We have a lot of rebuilt xd3p (rebuilt by road side mechanics & authorised workshops like mine) here in NIOC delhi and none seem to have any trouble while off road or on road even when temp is pushing 45.

I feed water pump is the Achilles heel in xd3p otherwise it is a very refined and rev happy engine compared to DI.

cheers
vishwas
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Old 26th April 2013, 08:22   #167
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Right, let me share my experiences too here. I wasnt left with much of a choice, even if this lasts a year I can think about other options. But again, I dont expect to do too much offroad this AG, lets see.
Please post a pic of the head, before the works, if you have one.
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Old 26th April 2013, 09:41   #168
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Thats odd. I rebuilt my xd3p from mahindra authorised service station and no trouble whatsoever in the last 3 years and 20k kms.

We have a lot of rebuilt xd3p (rebuilt by road side mechanics & authorised workshops like mine) here in NIOC delhi and none seem to have any trouble while off road or on road even when temp is pushing 45.

I feed water pump is the Achilles heel in xd3p otherwise it is a very refined and rev happy engine compared to DI.

cheers
vishwas
Thats lot of encouragement. Problem is in Low range when redlined regularly.20k is too early to comment.Any how im happy to know that your happy, ultimately happiness matters.
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Old 26th April 2013, 14:21   #169
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
3) Clutch friction plate is slightly worn out (asymmetrically) abnormal wear out due causing jerks! will be replaced, pressure plate (cover assy looks good, so leaving it for now).
When you are changing the Friction Plate, Its better to change the Cover Assembly (Pressure Plate) and the release Bearing as a whole. if there is assymetrical wear, it would reflect on your new disc as well if the pressure plate is not changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
4) Starter motor bendix slightly worn out on edges (was experiencing grr-grr cranks at times, anyways getting the whole lucas starter serviced)
The ring gear on the fly wheel might also require a replacement, do check once before assembly.
Regards
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Old 26th April 2013, 15:10   #170
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
^^ For ON-Road use, there should be absolutely no problem, and will last you a long time. The issue starts when the gear is LOW and rpm is in redline.
Yeah, thanks Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Thats odd. I rebuilt my xd3p from mahindra authorised service station and no trouble whatsoever in the last 3 years and 20k kms
Vishwas - what can I say, you gave me a lot of Vishwas!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Please post a pic of the head, before the works, if you have one.
oops, too late, already in the lathe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrycan View Post
When you are changing the Friction Plate, Its better to change the Cover Assembly (Pressure Plate) and the release Bearing as a whole. if there is assymetrical wear, it would reflect on your new disc as well if the pressure plate is not changed.The ring gear on the fly wheel might also require a replacement, do check once before assembly
Yes Let me discuss with my inhouse expert about the clutch and get back.

About the ring, you are right, the flywheel ring is Ok, only the Bendix is worn out a bit.

One update - found out the Starter motor was also sealed from factory till today morning. All parts are OE, and the 'brush' is factory fitted, the AFM job would be to SOLDER the new part in.

PS - dont have a XD3P with wornout rings!! The starter motor has 1 kilo of dried up fried up oil-soot on it, and another half kilo INSIDE it!! Damn, the whole thing is soaked in petrol now, dont know whats what now! (XDP4.90 is Ok, bcoz the starter is on the other side)

The clutch plate is a 2006 (sticker from MSL) one, cover assy looks OE. 12 years may be a good idea to change it also, lets see!

-------EDIT--------

Opened up the dash (few bolts on A pillar left and right, thats all). Planning to overhaul the OE AC Blower since its damn weak in air flow, relalized it may be a bigger mess to put it back together, so getting some ideas, lets see!


2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130426_081454.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130426_081502.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130426_081508.jpg

Last edited by svsantosh : 26th April 2013 at 15:14.
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Old 26th April 2013, 23:19   #171
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
Thats lot of encouragement. Problem is in Low range when redlined regularly.20k is too early to comment.Any how im happy to know that your happy, ultimately happiness matters.
But we regularly thrash our vehicles in OTR's in low range. I have also done a lot of touring in it and taken it to lahaul - spiti and back. Only time it has crossed 100 mark was when water pump was shot (thats twice in 3 years and 20k. Poor spare part from Mahindra) and once when I was doing a continuous very steep offroad climb in low range on my way to kye monastry in kibber with load of 5 adults and full luggage and camping gear. The air density was very low and engine was gasping for air hence low range was required. I feel that xd3p has tendency to slightly overheat when doing high torque application on low rpm as fan speed is dependent on rpm. During high rpm there is adequate cooling.

I know 20k is just about breaking in for a diesel engine but with our kind of application running will always be low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Vishwas - what can I say, you gave me a lot of Vishwas!!
LOL, heard this one after a long time. Best of luck mate, just ensure that original IPL sleeves and pistons are used.
+1 to Jerrycan - I too changed the pressure plate, friction plate, release bearing, gear ring, oil pump and the whole shebang. Complete peace of mind after that with zero breakdowns.

cheers
vishwas
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Old 27th April 2013, 14:12   #172
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Switch to an electric fan.. Keeps it cool at low rpms.

Last edited by prabhuav : 27th April 2013 at 14:12. Reason: Typo
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Old 30th April 2013, 15:55   #173
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
...just ensure that original IPL sleeves and pistons are used.
Interesting, when I looked at the block it didnt have a sleeve, or at least my eye couldnt find out!! When I asked about it to my mech I kind of understood that the 1st rebore (1st oversize) in a XD3P wouldnt need a sleeve job, can anyone throw some light into it. And the new rings are OE MM (came in a box) I suppose they dont give more than 1st oversize?

Quote:
changed the pressure plate, friction plate, release bearing, gear ring, oil pump
In the above list I only changed the friction plate for want of funds, sigh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post
Switch to an electric fan.. Keeps it cool at low rpms.
And IIRC we spoke of slight increase in BHP? Or no? Will talk over phone once again about this idea.

---------EDIT----------

Must be the heat, I fotgot - Duh!!

She is running AGAIN, I had the previlege to start her up for the 1st time, took 4-5 cranks to pull fuel into the nozzles, and some adjustment to the pump mounting, but she started.

Currently in a 4 hour idle to check for heating, leaks, etc also to loosen her up a bit. Mech said tightness is usually on the higher side and he recomends a days idle on the spot, I know purists dont like that idea, but I dont have a choice because if I insist I take her out ASAP and something blows, its on me!

PS - the AC belt isnt fit just in case some wise guy in me decides to switch it on, strict no-no per my mech, sure to heat the peejo up and seize ASAP it seems, who am I to argue.

Pics later, with lots of bills and breakup of components changed with prices.

Last edited by svsantosh : 30th April 2013 at 16:01.
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Old 1st May 2013, 23:27   #174
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

This is the bill I spent on the engine rebuild along with some misc part changes that were outside the purview of a Jeep engine rebuild.

1st 4 are from Salem shops

1) Head Seating Works - 2,540 INR

Sri Sakthi Head works, Salem-1

In-Scope - Acid washing head, removing all old valves, guides, machining it finely to fit new guides and valves.

2) Engine Rebuild spares (Critical block Components) - 22,926 INR

Best Auto, Salem-1

Excerpts of the huge list that I could make out

Liner - 1890
Piston Assy - 3850
Main Brg - 965
Conrod Brg - 765
Conrod bush - 365
valves - 1685
guides - 468
stem - 674
rims? - 1980
Head gasket - 2450
timing chain - 2160

3) Fuel Pump works - 4,076 INR

Amman Diesel works, Salem-15

In-Scope - dismantling FIP and nozzles down its last component, replacing with basic rebuild kit (rubber parts like washers), rebuilding FIP to OE Spec for a XD3P per manufacturer

4) Lathe charges - 6,225 INR

PRT Engineering Works, Salem-1

InScope - Acid washing block, machining OUT the old cylinder walls, installing new liner sleeve inside and re-boring new cylinder to OE RING dia and honing the walls, removing crank shaft, bearings, machining the shaft to take new connecting rod bushes, etc...

5) Misc parts @ Local store - 6,000 INR

KTR Auto, Hosur

Big Ticket items

4-glow plugs - 1080
Clutch Plate - 2120
Oil, oil filter, air filter for 1st startup - 1800
2 engine beds - 640

6) Local Electrician for Starter rebuild - 2,100 INR
Includes Bendix, brush, bushes, lathe work

7) Diesel charge (350Km round drive) and 1 day tip to mech in lieu of Salem Trip - 2,000 INR

8) Last but not least - Labor charge for REBUILD - 7,000Rs


----------------GRAND TOTAL - 52,867 INR----------------


(PS, feel free add 8*80 = 640Rs for a ambur special chicken biriyani treat for all the boyz in the garage to the tab!!)

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_110917.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_111018.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_111043.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_111048.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_111055.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_111128.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_113443.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_113454.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_113508.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_113516.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_113539.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130427_113554.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130429_121544.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130429_121555.jpg

2000 Armada Grand 4WD-img_20130429_142641.jpg

Vehicle completed 6-7 Hours of Idling at mechs place and now switched off and ready for delivery tommorow morning. Its going into next door electrician for rewiring of the miles of disconnected lights, indicators, etc (may add 200~Rs to the bill, after that its run-in time, and of course some pics!!)

Last edited by svsantosh : 1st May 2013 at 23:36.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 10:07   #175
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Currently in a 4 hour idle to check for heating, leaks, etc also to loosen her up a bit. Mech said tightness is usually on the higher side and he recomends a days idle on the spot, I know purists dont like that idea, but I dont have a choice because if I insist I take her out ASAP and something blows, its on me!
Hi Santosh,

The mechanic has successfully destroyed your engine rebuild, with lack of understanding of the running in procedure.

Or maybe he very well understands how to put you in the vicious cycle of paying him a weekly visit.

Is he paying for the parts, mechanical labour.

If you cannot convince your mechanic it is because you don't fully have an understanding of what is the advantages - dis-advantages of the running in procedure.

Either ways it your time & money

Regards,

Arka
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Old 2nd May 2013, 10:28   #176
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The mechanic has successfully destroyed your engine rebuild, with lack of understanding of the running in procedure.
Hi Arka,

It would be really helpful if you could please post about how to run-in a rebuilt XD3P, what are the advantages of it, and most importantly, what are the disadvantages of the "idling for hours" running in followed by most mechanics.

Thanks,

Dhanush
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Old 2nd May 2013, 11:22   #177
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Default XDP4.9 & XD3P Running In procedure

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Hi Arka,

It would be really helpful if you could please post about how to run-in a rebuilt XD3P, what are the advantages of it, and most importantly, what are the disadvantages of the "idling for hours" running in followed by most mechanics.
Hi Danush,

1) Assemble the engine, with cooling system (including coolant, over-flow bottle & thermostat)in the vehicle.

2) Start engine, fluctuate the throttle to raise the rpm to 2000-3000rpm till water temp reached 80degrees i.e running temp.

3) Hold this engine speed for 5-10 mins.

or jump to step no. 7

4) Allow the engine to cool down for 6-8hrs.

5) Drain cooling system and re-torque the head to 49ft/lbs and unlock 1/4 turn (90degrees)

6) Re-fill cooling system and drive the vehicle on road.

7) Rapidly accelerate and FULLY release thottle, to allow the piston rings i.e compression to slow down the vehicle. do this for a 10-15 cycles gradually increasing the speed, and then releasing the throttle.

8) Change engine oil & oil filter

or

Change engine oil & oil filter after 500 or 2500kms.

then

complete step no 4,5&6 if not done earlier.

I have done this in October 2010 on my 2nd complete overhaul and the engine is working well.

Prolonged running at idling speed does not allow sufficient oil circulation, and cause the bore and pistons to get scuffed/scratched, which leads to poor compression and later on loss of compression.

Minimum Oil Circulation specification for XD family of engines is 3bar at 3000rpm i.e

Regards,

Arka

PS - I will post my experiences on XD3P/XDp4.9 & F4-134 in a detailed thread.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:10   #178
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Default Re: XDP4.9 & XD3P Running In procedure

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
I have done this in October 2010 on my 2nd complete overhaul and the engine is working well.
Wonderful! Thanks very much.
Quote:
PS - I will post my experiences on XD3P/XDp4.9 & F4-134 in a detailed thread.
And if possible, address the overheating @ 90+kmph or in consistent 1st and 2nd low ? I guess it would help almost all the XD3P + KMT90 users?

Thanks again!
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:24   #179
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
5) Drain cooling system and re-torque the head to 49ft/lbs and unlock 1/4 turn (90degrees)

Minimum Oil Circulation specification for XD family of engines is 3bar at 3000rpm i.e

PS - I will post my experiences on XD3P/XDp4.9 & F4-134 in a detailed thread.
are above mentioned steps are same for XDP engines as well? specially re-torquing head after first session of start. It would be really helpful to all non techie person like me, if you start a separate thread on engine run-in, i am specifically looking for information on XDP4.9 and F4-134, as both engines on my jeeps are recently built and ready to fire.

Shubhendra

Last edited by Shubhendra : 2nd May 2013 at 12:31. Reason: missed point
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:35   #180
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
are above mentioned steps are same for XDP engines as well? specially re-torquing head after first session of start. It would be really helpful to all non techie person like me, if you start a separate thread on engine run-in, i am specifically looking for information on XDP4.9 and F4-134, as both engines are rady to fire.
Hi Shubendra,

XDP4.9 & XD3P & F4-134 have the same running in procedure.

XDP4.9 & XD3P have same head torque i.e 49 ft/lbs

F41-134 http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Hurricane.html

Regards,

Arka
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