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Old 2nd May 2013, 13:04   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post

Interesting, when I looked at the block it didnt have a sleeve, or at least my eye couldnt find out!! When I asked about it to my mech I kind of understood that the 1st rebore (1st oversize) in a XD3P wouldnt need a sleeve job, can anyone throw some light into it. And the new rings are OE MM (came in a box) I suppose they dont give more than 1st oversize?
XD3P engines do not come with liners. It's only during the 1st or 2nd over haul, the cylinder is rebored to fit in a dry liner. The bore size is usually OE spec after the liner is inserted, hence no over size rings.
You could have atleast changed the oil pump and strainer.
Do change the water pump also, if you have not done so in the very recent past.
As Mr.Arka has rightly said the run in should have a thorough oil circulation which is only possible at higher rpm.
Best of luck
Regards
Prabhu

Last edited by Jerrycan : 2nd May 2013 at 13:20.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 14:25   #182
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Thanks Arka for the explanation. I dont have much of a choice, lets see how long this rebuild lasts.

Ps, if it helps, the idling was set at a more-than regular idling (1000Rpm?), and the oil pressure did show a more than 3Bar reading through out.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 14:53   #183
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Ps, if it helps, the idling was set at a more-than regular idling (1000Rpm?), and the oil pressure did show a more than 3Bar reading through out.
Hi Santosh,

What about seating/sealing the piston rings and cylinder bore under load?

Regards,

Arka.

PS - The best run-in within 2500kms was intentionally a palar drive, continuous load and varying RPM
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Old 2nd May 2013, 15:06   #184
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Hi Arka, dont know what it means, honestly.

I think its good that all your inputs can lead to a good XD3P or any engine rebuild. There was no good pointers on a running procedure of a XD3P before your post. As I said some page earlier, even if this lasts a year or anything close to 40-50K Kms, Its enough from usage POV. But superb 'must-have' for any one rebuilding a engine.

IIRC even Dhanush and some silent (Tbhp) members are looking forward to the outcome of my XD3P rebuild and waiting to take a call on swap (Di) or rebuild.

Kindly request you to write about other jeep engines (run-in and rebuild pointers), incl the much talked about Di and Di-turbo, I am sure they are no blessed ones after a rebuild (if 1 comes up) and it also needs some procedure.

I was very much confused with a engine swap and decided to do this stop gap rebuild.

Edit-

Do please pitch in on the current Di Vs rebuild XD3P for a Offroad Jeep debate. Many in my thread did debate over rebuilt peujeots failing after rebuild on high RPMs, your take here please?

Last edited by svsantosh : 2nd May 2013 at 15:08.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 17:01   #185
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Kindly request you to write about other jeep engines (run-in and rebuild pointers), incl the much talked about Di and Di-turbo, I am sure they are no blessed ones after a rebuild (if 1 comes up) and it also needs some procedure.

I was very much confused with a engine swap and decided to do this stop gap rebuild.
Hi Santosh,

I have posted the running in procedure 2 years back. I think it applies for all engines.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...-clutch-3.html (Using clutch and designing clutch...)

post#44


Regards,

Arka
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Old 2nd May 2013, 21:04   #186
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post

PRT Engineering Works, Salem-1

InScope - Acid washing block, machining OUT the old cylinder walls, installing new liner sleeve inside and re-boring new cylinder to OE RING dia and honing the walls, removing crank shaft, bearings, machining the shaft to take new connecting rod bushes, etc...
Machine shop:
What all did they check, and how?

Do you have measurements and pictures of the bore and crank before machine shop work started?

What machines do they use for boring and honing, and crank grinding. What is the crank size now?

From your description, I think the engine has been rebuilt 'tight'. In which case you'll have to baby it for a long time.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 2nd May 2013, 23:52   #187
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
What about seating/sealing the piston rings and cylinder bore under load?

The best run-in within 2500kms was intentionally a palar drive, continuous load and varying RPM
+1 constant rpm is an absolute no no when running in. When I was running in my newly built XD3P I used to take jeep out early in the morning (to avoid traffic and idling) to office - 30 kms - and constantly vary the rpm all the way. I would go upto 60 and then let engine braking bring the vehicle to 40. I would do this for complete 30kms. Once every day I would give a linear burst upto 80 and than slow down. I gradually increased the upper limit from 60 to 80 as kms logged on. Did this for 3000kms. Changed the oil at 1000 and 5000 kms. Also people have this habit of babying the engine and quickly shift to top gear. During run in one should work through the gears and not lug the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
As I said some page earlier, even if this lasts a year or anything close to 40-50K Kms, Its enough from usage POV.

Kindly request you to write about other jeep engines (run-in and rebuild pointers), incl the much talked about Di and Di-turbo, I am sure they are no blessed ones after a rebuild (if 1 comes up) and it also needs some procedure.
Don't loose heart. I am sure your engine will easily last 1lakh kms. Follow the run in procedure now. What is done is done. Also run in procedure is universal for all engines. I am glad you stuck with XD3P. It is a good engine and absolves you from all legalities with an engine swap. You got to give it some credit, both Arka and GTO have it in their jeeps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
This is the bill I spent on the engine rebuild along with some misc part changes that were outside the purview of a Jeep engine rebuild.

GRAND TOTAL - 52,867 INR
I have been trying to find my bill for my XD3P rebuilt to compare but to no avail. However IIRC I had spent 60K in total 4-5 years back in a MM authorised workshop and tax paid invoice. I had managed to seize the engine so there were more damages like bent connecting rods and stuff. Below was the broad breakup

FIP and injector overhaul - 15K paid directly to bosch service centre
Clutch overhaul - 5K
Engine rebuilt - 40K

I think the spare part prices have rocketed like anything in last 4 years.

cheers
vishwas
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Old 3rd May 2013, 00:09   #188
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

OK Google comes to rescue.
Apparently the workshope had sent me the estimate on mail which is still there. Here you go. I had started rebuilt on 23rd sept 2008.

So it is 41.5K estimate here. The final bill from workshop was 45k against this estimate which was below my expectations and quite a relief. Plus 15K for FIP and nozzles.

LOL I am proud of my decaying grey matter.

CLASSIC SERVICEPOINT PVT. LTD.

AUTHORISED SERVICE CENTRE
MOBILE 99101 56477 A-27, SECTOR-3, NOIDA - 201301 (U.P.) CST NO. ND/5117840
SER.TAX :AAEPT6481CST001 Ph. 0120-4320386, 2535324 PAN NO. AABCC9654L
TIN NO.: 09665703596
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Party : VISHWAS S.No.:257 Date :23/09/08
Ph:XXXXXXXXXX
Ins.Co. : Model :MM-550 XDB
Surveyor: Chas. :XXXXXXXX
Veh. No.:XXXXXXXXX Engn. :XXXXXX Kms.: 46447Enquiry No.:NIL Date :21/09/08
Page :1
ESTIMATE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sno Part Number Part Description Qty Rate Labour Oth.Amt Taxable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 9456107680 CYLINDER HEAD GASKET-MEILLO 4 1398.22 5592.88
2 9420001120 PISTON 0.5 MM P.PIN OFFSET 4 898.67 3594.68
3 7932581543 PIN-PISTON 4 162.67 650.68
4 0094707 KIT VALVE INLET & EXHAUST 1 1317.33 1317.33
5 7902100996 VALVE GUIDE 8 20.44 163.52
6 9420000609 VALVE STEM SEAL 8 36.44 291.52
7 0051497 PISTON RINGS 1 3465.78 3465.78
8 9610917780 GASKET CYL.HEAD (1.73T) 4 1 1883.10 1883.10
9 0085237 OILER ROCKER SHAFT (CAST IR 1 46.12 46.12
10 9350073980 MAIN BRG SET STD 1 728.89 728.89
11 9400606600 BRG SET CON ROD COMPLETE ST 1 411.56 411.56
12 9420000549 ECCENTRIC BUSH XD3P 8 44.44 355.52
13 7932566164 THRUST WASHER SET STD 1 224.00 224.00
14 9401001370 OIL PUMP ASSY 1 774.22 774.22
15 9420000322 BI-FUNCTION OIL PRESS.SWITC 1 148.44 148.44
16 0099828 INSULATOR ENGINE MTG FRT (M 2 258.67 517.34
17 9350115680 FLY WHEEL RING GEAR(146T) 1 460.44 460.44
18 9420000007 BUSH - FLY WHEEL CL SHAFT 1 29.33 29.33
19 9420000618 CLUTCH PLATE BA 10 1 1531.56 1531.56
20 9420000619 PRESSURE PLATE BA10 (MSL MA 1 2312.89 2312.89
21 0802AA0041N CLUTCH RELEASE BEARING BA10 1 729.78 729.78
Contd...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESTIMATE is subject to following terms :
1. UPTT Extra charges as applicable
2. Incidental Charges (in-lieu-of CST, Freight & Others) extra.
3. Delivery within ..... days at our Workshop/Showroom.
4. Subject to prevailing prices list of Company.
5. Payment terms : Against Delivery by Cash / D.D.
6. All Subject to DELHI jurisdiction.
7. E. & O.E.

CLASSIC SERVICEPOINT PVT. LTD.

AUTHORISED SERVICE CENTRE
MOBILE 99101 56477 A-27, SECTOR-3, NOIDA - 201301 (U.P.) CST NO. ND/5117840
SER.TAX :AAEPT6481CST001 Ph. 0120-4320386, 2535324 PAN NO. AABCC9654L
TIN NO.: 09665703596
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Party : VISHWAS S.No.:257 Date :23/09/08
Ph:XXXXXXXXXX
Ins.Co. : Model :MM-550 XDB
Surveyor: Chas. :XXXXXXXX
Veh. No.:XXXXXXXX Engn. :XXXXXXX Kms.: 46447Enquiry No.:NIL Date :21/09/08
Page :2
ESTIMATE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sno Part Number Part Description Qty Rate Labour Oth.Amt Taxable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 7910033393 CLUTCH RELEASE FORK. 1 210.67 210.67
23 0069345 ASSY CLUTCH SLAVE CYL. 1 725.33 725.33
24 7910030761 PROP SPRING.CLUTCH RELEASE. 1 6.22 6.22
25 NEK6203MX OIL FILTER CARTD 1 134.02 134.02
26 NEK424504245 FUEL FILTER 1 134.01 134.01
27 NOIL006K ENGINE OIL 6K 6 137.35 824.10
28 NOIL141A BRAKE OIL 500 ML 1 133.05 133.05
29 NBOND0265 BOND TUBE 2 111.90 223.80
30 NSLK0266 SHALACK TUBE 3 18.92 56.76
31 10-050 ENGINE OVERHAULING UVS 7000.00
32 28-150L ENGINE BORING JOB 3370.00
33 26-010L VEHICLE WASHING FULL 400.00
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10770.00 0.00 27677.54
Discount @10.0/ 0.0/ 2.0/ 1077.00 0.00 553.55
VAT:12.50% 3390.50
LABOUR SERVICE TAX:12.36% 1198.05
(S.Tax 12%:1163.16 / E.Cess 2%:23.26 / HE.Cess 1%:11.63
ROUNDED OFF: 0.46

Net Amount : 41406.00
Rs. Forty one thousand Four hundred Six Only.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESTIMATE is subject to following terms :
1. UPTT Extra charges as applicable
2. Incidental Charges (in-lieu-of CST, Freight & Others) extra.
3. Delivery within ..... days at our Workshop/Showroom.
4. Subject to prevailing prices list of Company.
5. Payment terms : Against Delivery .........
6. All Subject to DELHI jurisdiction.
7. E. & O.E.

Authorised Signatory

At a glance I can see a huge jump in both spare part as well as labour cost. Labour charged by an A.S.S 4 years back is same as FNG today

Note to mods - I have purposely kept this post separate from earlier one so as to not dilute the information posted. Kindly let it be.


cheers
vishwas
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Old 3rd May 2013, 13:50   #189
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Sno Part Number Part Description Qty Rate Labour Oth.Amt Taxable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 9456107680 CYLINDER HEAD GASKET-MEILLO 4 1398.22 5592.88
Eh, 4 head gaskets, some solution to avoid overheating I say!

Jokes apart, I am sure the final bill would have been accurate. This is only the quote right?

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Machine shop:
What all did they check, and how?
Do you have measurements and pictures of the bore and crank before machine shop work started?
What machines do they use for boring and honing, and crank grinding. What is the crank size now?
From your description, I think the engine has been rebuilt 'tight'. In which case you'll have to baby it for a long time
Sorry Sutripto, I dont have answers, details of any of the question above. This job was done in a place about 3 hours from where I stay and I couldnt afford a day off.

But I know 1 thing for sure, the 'baby' part is metioned to me by mech, he said he sets the engine very tight initially, and advised absolutely no heavy foot by me for 1st 3-4K Kms.

Last edited by svsantosh : 3rd May 2013 at 13:55.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 20:59   #190
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Sorry Sutripto, I dont have answers, details of any of the question above. This job was done in a place about 3 hours from where I stay and I couldnt afford a day off.
Lots of things to check (and hopefully most of the time found OK) during a rebuild, but very specifically in this case did they check the head for warpage? And how.


Quote:
But I know 1 thing for sure, the 'baby' part is metioned to me by mech, he said he sets the engine very tight initially, and advised absolutely no heavy foot by me for 1st 3-4K Kms.
And the practice continues! We really should have a guild system.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 4th May 2013, 09:05   #191
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

And the practice continues! We really should have a guild system.

Regards
Sutripta
Unfortunately all guild systems are termed as IPR of M&M and doesn't goes to all, but who really decides to gets it, can.

After all we are in this part of the world ..

Last edited by Rajith : 4th May 2013 at 09:11.
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Old 7th May 2013, 13:18   #192
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Couple of hiccups after delivery and needed some time to sort them out.

1) Some wise guy cut the wires coming out of the XD3Ps head for water temp sensor. One cant drive a Peejo without knowing the head temp, let alone after a big ticket rebuild! So parked it in garage till I found one. I got to know the XDP4.90 and XD3P's water temp sensor looks very similar, but they are very diff! :-/ XDP4.90 thread O.Dia is about 12MM, XD3P is only about 8M (much narrower) --- EASIER way to differentiate them is XDP4.90 has 2 male push-clips (??) on its head, while the XD3P's unit has 2 wires HOTWIRED and SOLDERED and SEALED onto its head.

2) It "seems" the starter motor has a 'shim' or a thin washer type plate between its body and the bell housing, and some wise guy lost it. My mech is absolutely sure it wasnt there when he dismantled the unit, but electrician was sure it wouldnt run without it. Issue here - I was getting a HARSH grinding sound of the bendix & flywheel gear after cranking. Like the bendix was engaged for a micro second after cranking. I knew and all knew it wasnt good for a long time.

So decided NOT to take delivery and let any1 start the AG until these 2 problems are fixed and as of yesterday evening, both were resolved, and I made the AG's 1st trip to my office after the engine rebuild.

Must say the difference between low-compression and good compression is impressive and obvious difference in RPMs especially in 4th and 5th gear. I didnt cross 60Kmph yet, its less than 100Km yet, let see how things progress.

PS - Life without AC is and dont know how much longer can I take it! Its may and things are not looking nice around this part of the world!
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Old 8th May 2013, 14:33   #193
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

More updates

1) changed water pump since the earlier started to leak a bit, thankfully caught it while doing morning inspection - costed 1450Rs

2) Drained coolant (visible dust or rust floating around) and refilled it with new mix.

PS - how tight the engine must be to sip through 1000rs of diesel (15~ liters) within 120Kms without AC!! Wonder when the FE would improve a bit?!
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Old 10th May 2013, 14:26   #194
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Default Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
how tight the engine must be to sip through 1000rs of diesel (15~ liters) within 120Kms without AC!! Wonder when the FE would improve a bit?!
I realized I made a mistake!!

When I took delivery of the AG the tank was fully dry, I had to pump the filter once to reach the fuel station and filled only for 500Rs!!

And when I reached the pump to fill up thats when I recollected the ^ Part and already I had crossed 150Kms (on 9.5~Ltr) which makes it a impressive 15+KMPL!!

Last edited by svsantosh : 10th May 2013 at 14:29.
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Old 10th May 2013, 15:40   #195
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Question Re: 2000 Armada Grand 4WD

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
... which makes it a impressive 15+KMPL!!


Are you sure you got the numbers right ? I doubt if that mileage is possible with the IDI 2.5L....15 kmpl would put it in the league of the DI engines.

The best mileage possible, that I heard of, with the 2.5L is ~ 10 kmpl.
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