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Old 13th May 2012, 15:24   #1
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Default Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

I had always wanted a Gypsy. A MPFI Gypsy King to be precise. But as life is you never get what you want. Was stuck with other things and the itch got subdued somewhat over the last few years. Recently got to know of a fine specimen available.

On a Sunday morning went with a friend and checked the vehicle. Boy, it was clean as a whistle. Best 12 yr old vehicle I had seen ever. Dint think twice and came back next week with the moolah after arranging the finances and here I was a proud owner of a excellent MPFI GYPSY KING with HT. Just as I always wanted .

Will let the pics do the talking now. I am a complete noob to Gypsy. Any and every comment is welcome.

I will shortly update the work done after acquisition and story of bringing it home.

cheers
Vishwas
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Old 14th May 2012, 00:02   #2
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

The deal was sealed and I signed the dotted line. The car in question was stationed about 120 kms from Delhi. One fine evening me and my friend hitched ride with a relative who shuttles from there on weekly basis and reached the destination by 10' clock. Did a quick check on the car. Had already got it serviced through someone and it seemed good to go. I pulled it out of the garage and it felt incredibly heavy and reluctant to move. Noticed the 4WD light was on. The poor thing was being driven on 4WD by these idiots. Now the dilemma, the top shift pattern sticker of the transfer case stick was missing and as I claimed earlier, I am noob with Gypsy. I yanked the lever around but could only shift between 4H & 4L. My relative came to rescue, he had driven Gypsy for a fair amount of time and with a grinding sound he slot it into 2WD.
Without wasting a moment, me and my friend hopped in and left for Delhi. Normally in case of purchase of such an old vehicle we would be kitted to the hilt with tools, oil, water etc for such a long drive in night. But such was our faith on this vehicle that we were carrying only a liter of drinking water and nothing else. And the vehicle dint let our faith falter. It was cruising at 90-100 like no ones business.
There were only two noticeable issues. One the brakes, when applied had a vicious bite. Even if you tap the paddle, you did end up jamming all fours. One had to be very very gentle and careful with the brakes. Second was an incessant whining noise from the transfer case. While we couldn't do any thing about the brakes my friend who was driving decided to address the transfer case whining. He thought the 2WD wasn't properly engaged and fiddled with the lever. With a gentle thud the vehicle became heavy and the nasty 4WD lit up again on the console. I groaned....


I gave my friend my dirtiest look that I save for such occasions. In all fairness even he had realized his stupidity by now. Here we were on the highway at 2400 hrs with a new old vehicle we knew nothing about that had a moody transfer case that needed a fair bit of coaxing and nudging from an old expert to be brought into 2WD. WHAT TO DO NOW?? We pulled by the side of highway and he started wrestling with the damned lever. No sir but this vehicle has a liking for 4WD and will shift between 4L & 4H only. He slipped the clutch while vigorously pushing the lever in all directions (This normally always works with a JEEP) while I was scrounging TBHP on my cell phone trying to locate any thread on TBHP which has a graphic of Gypsy transfer case shift pattern. Both of us failed. At this moment the temperature that had been snugly nestled below halfway mark so far starts creeping up fast to H mark. My friend immediately shuts off the engine. Now this is a funny situation. We cant shift out of 4WD without starting and nudging the car and the moment we start it, it heats up. 'oh irony thou art a heartless bitch' - sheldon cooper. After a 15 minute drama of starting the vehicle, toying the lever till the temp creeps up and shutting it off, I switch places with my friend and take the captain seat. I start the engine and have a go at the lever like there is no tomorrow. Voila it hails to almighty me.
Gypsy self tutored lesson no. 1 - Learning the transfer case shift pattern (necessity is the mother of learning).
The rest of the journey was rather uneventful. I maxed it out at 110 KMPH which was bit lower to my expectation. We reached home by 0200 hrs and parked it. FINALLY!!
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Old 14th May 2012, 01:08   #3
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

On the coming weekend the vehicle was taken to a FNG and all the known issues were worked on
  • Supsensions - The vehicle tilted to one side with front left leaves in negative camber
The leaves were re-cambered all around and all dampers, bush kit, shackles replaced (All MGP)
  • Brakes - The brakes jammed on slightiest of the application
The brake booster was found bust. A new booster, master cylinder, slave cylinders, caliper kit, brake shoes, brake pads were installed. The whole system was flushed and bled with fresh brake oil. (All parts TVS - Girling OEM)
  • Steering - The car made noises while turning and had a tendency to wander
The tie rods with drag link and steering stabilizer damper were replaced. (All parts Gabriel, Talbros)
  • Radiator - The car heat up while driving down that night
The radiator was serviced and thermostat valve junked. Fresh coolant was filled up
  • Lights - Dull not working. One beam clear other normal
All lights glasses all around were changed. Order for a set of clear head lamps was placed. Was getting a set of clear ones for 250 a pair but the stockist who is also a neighbor suggested putting one with metal doom as it can withstand the heat of a 90/100 bulb. These had plastic doom that will melt with 90/100 bulbs as per him.
  • Rear View - The Gypsy only has an ORVM on the right side that too a really small useless one
Installed bolero ORVM on both doors. (Mahindra genuine part) Interestingly the cost of these mirrors has come down from 450 a piece to 170. Quality has also taken a huge hit. But at this price one cant really complain.

Tested the vehicle over the next week by taking it to office (70 kms to & fro) my review

Good
  • Very easy to drive aroud. Feels like a car. Really compact and chuckable
  • Brakes are excellent now. Awesome feedback and bite
  • Steering is super soft now. No weird noises
  • One can rev her to moon. God I love petrol engines
  • Suspension is super soft. I had read about jeep suspension being better, but IMHO Gypsy suspension scores over it
  • The vehicle is very solid. No squeaks, rattles whatsoever. Doors close with a solid thunk that is very unlike Maruti

BAD
  • Really cramped cockpit. I never knew that Gypsy was this cramped. My Alto is far better
  • Fuel efficiency - Just getting a tad over 10 KMPL in Delhi office commite. i.e. almost 7 rs/km. I can go in a chauffeur driven AC indica for this much
  • The vehicle still wanders at all speeds and over road undulations which are alpenty in Delhi
  • Rear has a tendency to jump over breakers
  • Bench seats are no good. To small. Jeep has much better support and has more leg room
  • Front seats are pathetic. No support, no cushioning, nothing at all. M800 had much better seats.
  • Dismissal torque. One cant crawl at 4L. Also one has to downshift while climbing up the flyovers

UGLY
  • The vehicle is still heating up in bumper to bumper traffic. Once you start moving it settles below half way mark
  • Power not as per my expectation. I had always thought MPFI Gypsy king had adequate power

To Do List
  • Put front facing seats in the rear. Suggestions?
  • Put new seats in front - Suggestions?
  • Rubbing and Polishing of the complete vehicle
  • Paint the HT and Bonnet in a bright colour. Need to get the 'Sarkari Stamp' removed from the vehicle. Till than I enjoy free paking and toll tax waiver without any guilt.
  • Install AUX fan in front of radiator - Suggestions?
  • Mount spare at the back again after strethning the tail gate with one more hinge
  • Install clear lens headlamps with 90/100 bulbs on both sides
  • Get the injectors and throttle body cleaned. This may help with the power issue
  • Install army tow hook at the back
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Old 14th May 2012, 01:25   #4
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Pics of vehicle after all the below job has been done. Needs a good scrub, rubbing and polishing to bring her back to its glory.

Interesting anecdotes
  • It has run only 53000 KMS
  • Radiator was opened for the first time
  • Leaf spring were opened for the first time
  • All engine bolts are intact. Not even one bolt has a mark of spanner or anything

cheers
Vishwas
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Old 14th May 2012, 10:35   #5
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Thread moved here from Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing it with us
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:13   #6
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Congrats on your Gypsy! It is one capable machine. It looks very very similar to the one i had purchased in 2010. Mine was a 2004 MPFI.

For Front Seats, go for Tavera / Indigo Manza Seats / Innova Seats.

For Rear Front Facing Seats, either you get stock gypsy seats or you can go for Omni Seats. Please avoid the Scorpio seats as they tend to sit very high and block your rear view.

Regd your radiator fan, you can use either the WagonR Fan or the one used in Indica made by Behr as has been mentioned by many gypsy owners on TBHP. Ideally you dont need a radiator fan if you dont have an AC condensor sitting in front. Try a pressure wash on the radiator.

Give it to Maruti for a complete service including Throttle Body and Injector Cleaning, that should resolve your power issue. A stock gypsy wont go beyond 120kmph.

And you say the suspension is soft on a gypsy. Enjoy your new ride. get to know it well before you start modding.

Cheers.
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:33   #7
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Vishwas,

Congratulations on the new buy. Your story is very similar to mine. Mine is an ex-Delhi govt 2001 MPFI Gypsy.

From my experience, do get the mechanicals and the engine looked over properly once. It may look fine and the Gypsies will run even if they have been abused to hell and back, but at some stage it will also give up.

Mine had everything fixed up, the engine looked fine and it was not looked into much as it felt and performed fine. Then, out of the blue, it overheated one day and the engine seized up and the fix was quite an expensive one.

I have the same heating in stop-go traffic problem, but not as bad as you seem to be having. The needle rises somewhere close to the half mark. Will be very interested to see if you can work your way around it.

You can fix the swaying to a great extent by getting a better set of shoes, balance and align the wheels and a set of free wheeling hubs. This has made a world of a difference in my Gypsy. Get better seats from Mayapuri. I got a set of Honda City seats for about 4500 and it feels so different now. The downside is that the cramped interiors get even more cramped as a result.

You should be able to get better FE. I get close to 13, most of the times, but I do also keep my temptation to go rev-happy under check.

Once set up right, the vehicle is an absolute joy for the feeling of a basic, largely electronics-free driving pleasure. Wishing you many happy miles with her.
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Old 14th May 2012, 16:42   #8
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Congrats !

If there's a chance, I would recommend retaining the 'Govt of India' signage on the Gypsy - (that is after a 4 inch lift and 33 inch tires)
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Old 14th May 2012, 17:19   #9
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Congrats on getting your dream vehicle :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
... Second was an incessant whining noise from the transfer case. While we couldn't do any thing about the brakes my friend who was driving decided to address the transfer case whining. He thought the 2WD wasn't properly engaged and fiddled with the lever. With a gentle thud the vehicle became heavy and the nasty 4WD lit up again on the console. I groaned....
The transfer case whining won't be addressed by just shifting between 2H/4H-L. Whine means some bearing or something else is wrong therein the T-case.


Quote:
We cant shift out of 4WD without starting and nudging the car and the moment we start it, it heats up. 'oh irony thou art a heartless bitch' - sheldon cooper.
I am sure you can shift between 2H/4H/L, without the need to start. Something is not correct. I suggest a through overahaul of the t-case. Change the oil for sure.

Quote:
Gypsy self tutored lesson no. 1 - Learning the transfer case shift pattern (necessity is the mother of learning).
Not just that, but also how to get it out if the t-case gets stuck in neutral. In that case you are royally stuck as the vehicle will just not move. Do check your shifter bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
...Supsensions - The vehicle tilted to one side with front left leaves in negative camber

The leaves were re-cambered all around and all dampers, bush kit, shackles replaced (All MGP)
I suggest that get new set of leaf springs. It costs just ~1k for both sides (front).

Quote:
Tested the vehicle over the next week by taking it to office (70 kms to & fro) my review

Suspension is super soft. I had read about jeep suspension being better, but IMHO Gypsy suspension scores over it
----
Dismissal torque. One cant crawl at 4L. Also one has to downshift while climbing up the flyovers
Interesting & good that you find gypsy suspension comfortable. I always have found a jeep suspension to be miles better than a gypsy.

The toruqe in a 1.3mpfi should be good enough to take you over a flyover in 2H only. Why you need 4L? I think you wanted to say 4th gear? If that is the case, then on a flyover, in a stock gypsy 2nd or 3rd gear is best at low speeds
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Old 14th May 2012, 22:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Thread moved here from Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing it with us
Thanks Anshuman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
For Front Seats, go for Tavera / Indigo Manza Seats / Innova Seats.
For Rear Front Facing Seats, either you get stock gypsy seats or you can go for Omni Seats. Please avoid the Scorpio seats as they tend to sit very high and block your rear view.
Regd your radiator fan, you can use either the WagonR Fan or the one used in Indica made by Behr as has been mentioned by many gypsy owners on TBHP. Ideally you dont need a radiator fan if you dont have an AC condensor sitting in front. Try a pressure wash on the radiator.
Thanks Desmosedici.
Wont these seats be too big? There is hardly any space in the cabin. I was thinking i10 seats upfront. For rear I would like innova seats as they can be flipped to the sides if needed.
As for Wagon R and Indica fan wont these need to be installed towards the engine by removing the mechanical fan? Is it what you are suggesting? I was thinking of putting an AUX fan in the front of the radiator to push the air in. I have already serviced the radiator, so am a little lost with this heating problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codelust View Post
I have the same heating in stop-go traffic problem, but not as bad as you seem to be having. The needle rises somewhere close to the half mark. Will be very interested to see if you can work your way around it.
You should be able to get better FE. I get close to 13, most of the times, but I do also keep my temptation to go rev-happy under check.
Thanks codelust. Mine goes all the way to H mark in bumper to bumper traffic. At this point I pull up and throw water on the fins to cool it down. 13 KMPL is too good, but I must confess I have been ripping the vehicle around Delhi . Oh the joys of a rev happy petrol. I see your are in Delhi also. Do share some tips on Garages and places to pick up stuff for a Gypsy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lugnut View Post
Congrats !

If there's a chance, I would recommend retaining the 'Govt of India' signage on the Gypsy - (that is after a 4 inch lift and 33 inch tires)
WICKED IDEA lugnut!! You are a dangerous man. As it is I am finding it difficult to remove GoI sticker cuz of the benefits in parking, toll tax, buses moving out of your way etc. It will be very difficult to get this thought out of my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
The transfer case whining won't be addressed by just shifting between 2H/4H-L. Whine means some bearing or something else is wrong therein the T-case.
I am sure you can shift between 2H/4H/L, without the need to start. Something is not correct. I suggest a through overahaul of the t-case. Change the oil for sure.
Thanks Khan. I know but I will let the whining dogs lie for the time being. I guess this vehicle has been driven on tarmac on 4WD hence the noise. Any idea how much a complete overhaul will cost?

Quote:
Not just that, but also how to get it out if the t-case gets stuck in neutral. In that case you are royally stuck as the vehicle will just not move. Do check your shifter bush
Shifting is not as bad as I made it sound in my initial posts. The problem then was that we dint knew the shift pattern. Now it is much easier. Actually when compared to slotting a jeep in 4WD it is actually a cake walk. But whining persists.

Quote:
I suggest that get new set of leaf springs. It costs just ~1k for both sides (front).
Now you tell me!! 1Kfor each side or complete front set? Damn...

Quote:
Interesting & good that you find gypsy suspension comfortable. I always have found a jeep suspension to be miles better than a gypsy.
Its not just the suspension but the solid feel one gets when negotiating bumps, pot holes in a Gypsy. While a jeep crashes through it and will make all kinds of klangs and khadangs the Gypsy feels very taut and composed. On flip side I can plough through like a tractor in a jeep but Gypsy feels too fragile. The other day I was trying to cross a divider and forgot the rear overhang and exited perpendicular instead of exiting at an angle. The sound of scraping fuel tank made me cringe. In a jeep I would not have batted an eyelid. Coincidentally it was also first under-body scrape/ ding on this vehicle. The under-body is in such a pristine condition that one has to see to believe.

Quote:
The toruqe in a 1.3mpfi should be good enough to take you over a flyover in 2H only. Why you need 4L? I think you wanted to say 4th gear? If that is the case, then on a flyover, in a stock gypsy 2nd or 3rd gear is best at low speeds
You got me completely wrong. Let me punctuate the sentence better for you.
Dismissal torque. One cant crawl at 4L (I am complaining about the control in 4L one gets in a Jeep)
Also one has to downshift while climbing up the flyovers (Different topic but still related to torque. I have to downshift to 3rd if I want rapid progress up a flyover)

Why would I drive up a flyover in 4L? I said I am a noob not an idiot


@ All - Please advice on the heating issues. I am really stumped and have a trip planned to hills at the end of this month. Need to resolve it before that. Following is my SOP for a vehicle with heating problem but it seems to be failing here.

1. Clean and service the radiator, throw away the thermostat and put fresh coolant. - Done only marginal improvement.
2. Check the timing - It may be advanced. But this shall cause heating at all rpm and not just at idling
3. Engine running lean at idling. Up jet the pilots - This is a MPFI vehicle.
4. Check the head gasket - This again shall cause more issues at high rpm than idling

I am not keen on putting an AUX fan as the vehicle is stock and it should be stable with stock cooling system.

cheers
Vishwas
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Old 15th May 2012, 10:32   #11
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Do NOT throw away the thermostat , If the temp gauge in your car reaches the H mark in normal city driving then something is seriously wrong , also you are complaining of low power , i drive a gypsy and mine can climb most delhi flyovers in 4th (provided momentum is maintained )
There is no need to put an auxiliarry fan for the normal commute , the stock setup does fine.
Best front seats for the gypsy which you can get in VFM terms are the Esteem ones , you should get them for about 3k from mayapuri/meerut and after reupholstering they get the job done.
I would suggest you take the car to one of the Gypsy specialists in the NCR area , who will be able to identify the issues and fix them up in a jiffy.

Attatched is the link to a friends gypsy , this has an AC installed also , even in extreme offroad situations the temprature remains under control.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...crutineer.html (2009 Gypsy King. Functional Mods, Desert Storm Scrutineer)

Last edited by wbd8779 : 15th May 2012 at 10:36.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:11   #12
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Firstly CONGRATS on getting the mpfi king!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
To Do List
  • Put front facing seats in the rear. Suggestions?
    • I suggest you go for the innova seats only if you intend to retain the hard top
  • Put new seats in front - Suggestions?
    • I had got my self front seats from the cielo, they where very comfortable and fitted in very well without any major modification.
  • Rubbing and Polishing of the complete vehicle
    • This should be done only after you are done with everything else.
  • Paint the HT and Bonnet in a bright colour. Need to get the 'Sarkari Stamp' removed from the vehicle. Till than I enjoy free paking and toll tax waiver without any guilt.
    • You may also want to fabricate water drains to avoid leakage in the cabin
  • Install AUX fan in front of radiator - Suggestions?
    • Leave the stock fan where it is and add the aux electric fan in front of the radiator. Wagon R fan should be good. IMHO this will not solve the overheating problem completely. You will need to add a bigger copper radiator.
  • Mount spare at the back again after strethning the tail gate with one more hinge
    • This is something you should do for sure, just an additional bracket will be enough. Just ensure that the existing stock bolts dont become loose over time.
  • Install clear lens headlamps with 90/100 bulbs on both sides
    • You could upgrade to 100/130
  • Get the injectors and throttle body cleaned. This may help with the power issue
    • Surly, also check and replace(if required) your air filter and fuel pump.
What are your plans regarding installing an AC? Am asking this question now because that will impact your overheating issue and hence you will need to plan accordingly.

You can find details regarding the AC and copper radiator installation on my thread below. Hope this helps.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...-complete.html (My Army Spec "Demon Gypsy": Project Complete)




Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
@ All - Please advice on the heating issues. I am really stumped and have a trip planned to hills at the end of this month. Need to resolve it before that. Following is my SOP for a vehicle with heating problem but it seems to be failing here..............I am not keen on putting an AUX fan as the vehicle is stock and it should be stable with stock cooling system.
I have a few questions -
1. Is she overheating even on an open highway without traffic?
2. Is she over heating even when you are not revving beyond 3k rpm?
3. Is there any white smoke coming out exhaust?
4. Is this happening even in 2WD?

Please Note - that the stock cooling system of a gypsy is not capable of preventing the overheating issue in most cases. I am yet to come across a gypsy (driven hard) which doesn't overheat in bumper to bumper traffic driving conditions(over 30 minutes) without an AUX fan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wbd8779 View Post
Attatched is the link to a friends gypsy , this has an AC installed also , even in extreme offroad situations the temprature remains under control.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...crutineer.html (2009 Gypsy King. Functional Mods, Desert Storm Scrutineer)
This is a very very well crafted Gypsy i must agree!!

But it is not overheating because it has something more than the AUX fan and that is the "Oil Cooler".

Also the condenser for the AC has been installed in a good location and doesn't obstruct any air from flowing into the radiator. In most other cases(including mine) the condenser is installed in front of the radiator and obstructs the air flow into the radiator.



Also my guess is that vishwaschettri's gypsy will also not over heat if driven on an open highway.

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 15th May 2012 at 11:39.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:30   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post

Thanks Desmosedici.
Wont these seats be too big? There is hardly any space in the cabin. I was thinking i10 seats upfront. For rear I would like innova seats as they can be flipped to the sides if needed.
As for Wagon R and Indica fan wont these need to be installed towards the engine by removing the mechanical fan? Is it what you are suggesting? I was thinking of putting an AUX fan in the front of the radiator to push the air in. I have already serviced the radiator, so am a little lost with this heating problem.

cheers
Vishwas
Front Seats are entirely your choice. I just gave some options
Rear Seats, please check rear view before installing, i had lots of trouble after putting the Scorpio ones. Do you really want to keep the rear seats. Its a pain for the people sitting at the back.

I suggested putting the Aux Fan in front of the radiator however as all others i too feel that this shouldnt be required. My MPFI never gave me troubles, i have driven in bumper to bumper traffic and also offroaded a couple of times and i never faced this issue, my vehicle was mechanically stock.

The only heating i could feel once was during a 2 hour b2b traffic was the slight heat coming from the transmission tunnel. Nothing else. See KSM suggestions, he has had 1st hand experience with these issues.

Cheers.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:21   #14
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Default Re: Gypsy King MPFI : Finally!!

Congrats vishwas. Very nicely written buying experience. How long are you planning to keep that Govt. of India sticker on it ? Not a wise thing to retain it. How much did you buy the Gypsy for ?
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Old 15th May 2012, 13:49   #15
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This is a very very well crafted Gypsy i must agree!!

But it is not overheating because it has something more than the AUX fan and that is the "Oil Cooler".

Also the condenser for the AC has been installed in a good location and doesn't obstruct any air from flowing into the radiator. In most other cases(including mine) the condenser is installed in front of the radiator and obstructs the air flow into the radiator.



Hi,

No the oil cooler was primarily added as we felt that during the desrt storm the car had to be extensively driven in 4L and after a while the engine note used to get a bit rough , diffrent grades of oils were tested and then the oil cooler was fitted last year , even before the install the Gypsy had a AC but they were no issues.

As i pointed out earlier to the Vishwas , he needs to have this checked by a competent garage who deal in Gypsies frequently. The problems could range from what you pointed out , to binding brakes , clogged radiator lines , speed of the vicious coupling fan.

As for the radiator setup , a Baleno radiator coupled with a Ritz/Indica electric fan wil take care of ANY overheating issues in the car, i speak from experience as i have done the Raid in extereme category in a 1.6 Baleno engined Gypsy using the same setup, though we faced other issues , overheating was not one of them.
Nice to see an addition to the NCR gypsy club

Cheers
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