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Old 13th February 2017, 21:16   #466
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
IMO additives like Nulon and the like are like multivitamins/minerals. If on a healthy diet, at best these are worthless and at worst, can be toxic. And will always involve expenditure. But unlike in a car, the psychological benefits may end up being real via the mind/body connection.
Agree with you there, 100%. But sometimes, we just cannot help pampering vehicle or self with such multivitamins. Also curiosity about some new product -- does it really do what it claims to ? Then maybe I can save so much on engine overhauling, or postpone it ? Nulon (or Engaard -- the other PTFE engine treatment I later remembered) never really did anything perceptible for my engine, or anybody else's, I think. Otherwise they would have been roaring successes !
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:42   #467
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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Agree with you there, 100%. But sometimes, we just cannot help pampering vehicle or self with such multivitamins. Also curiosity about some new product -- does it really do what it claims to ? Then maybe I can save so much on engine overhauling, or postpone it ? Nulon (or Engaard -- the other PTFE engine treatment I later remembered) never really did anything perceptible for my engine, or anybody else's, I think. Otherwise they would have been roaring successes !
I would really be wary of putting any of these fancy additives in the engine sump of my car.

The magic coating that some of these additives claim to make on the innards of your engine has been reported to cause pressure drop across the oil filter resulting from possible clogging of small passageways. Sometimes on account agglomeration of some the ingredients in these formulations, engine oil is not able to reach difficult to reach parts/narrow pathways thus starving them of very critical lubrication/dissipation of heat.

In fact a few years ago one of the big companies in the US making these magic potions settled a FTC (Federal Trade Commission) laws suite admitting that their advertisements made unsubstantiated claims.

Most of these additives also have a compatibility problem with engine oils as today’s oils chemistry is very complex on account of high treat rates of adpacs & complex chemistry of some of the synthetic base stocks such as PAOs (Polyalphaolefins) that most of the majors use to blend their range of synthetic engine oils.

Last but not the least; most of the OEMs will deny you a warranty claim for the engine related problems should they find any of these so called magic potions in your car’s sump.

A few of these fancy products may claim to reduce friction in the engine to some degree (not proven) but would cause other problems that will surface in the long term.

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 14th February 2017 at 02:48.
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Old 14th February 2017, 03:48   #468
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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I would really be wary of putting any of these fancy additives in the engine sump of my car.

Last but not the least; most of the OEMs will deny you a warranty claim for the engine related problems should they find any of these so called magic potions in your carís sump.

A few of these fancy products may claim to reduce friction in the engine to some degree (not proven) but would cause other problems that will surface in the long term.
Well mine is an aged beast which has done 1.2 lac kms so far. And all Im doing is giving the poor old aged beast some multivits! So far so good.
And yes, rightly or wrongly, the Gypsy does feel generally smoother and better post this treatment.
Next step, Im going to change all the engine mounts, transmission mounts and differential mounts as soon as the parts reach me. This should further bring the vehicle up to better driving feel and quality.
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Old 14th February 2017, 06:56   #469
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

I took the Gyp for an early morning quick chukker along the mostly deserted roads and opened up her engine a bit, just to give the old beastie some exercise and fresh air for the engine to breathe instead of the more customary traffic laden roads and fumes.
Rather like riding a horse in the early morning. And the Gypsy bucks like one too. Lovely feeling. With this recent infusion of Fuel Injection Cleaner from STP and the recent engine flush and engine coating treatment, the Gypsy for sure feels better to drive and the engine certainly feels smoother.
In my opinion this stuff works quite ok. Im going to put one more can of STP Injector cleaner in, along with the next tankful of fuel, just to ensure the job is done properly and I hope this good state of affairs with the engine continues.
The only negative I noted this morning is that the headlamp fuse was slightly weak and blew out, but the fog lamps continue to work perfectly.
Must find time to replace the fuse and change the relay switch for the headlamps and horn as well, some time today/tomorrow.
And of course, the engine bed etc whenever those parts arrive.
Else the Gypsy just gives me a continual thrill whenever I look at it and drive it. Its a great basic vehicle indeed. Nice to have a purely mechanical beast to play with, no doubt.
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Old 14th February 2017, 09:28   #470
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I took the Gyp for an early morning quick chukker along the mostly deserted roads and opened up her engine a bit, just to give the old beastie some exercise and fresh air for the engine to breathe instead of the more customary traffic laden roads and fumes.
Rather like riding a horse in the early morning. And the Gypsy bucks like one too. Lovely feeling. ......

And of course, the engine bed etc whenever those parts arrive.
Else the Gypsy just gives me a continual thrill whenever I look at it and drive it. Its a great basic vehicle indeed. Nice to have a purely mechanical beast to play with, no doubt.
Shankar, what I wouldn't give to be able to do that.

I've been reading about your work that you so diligently have been carrying out on your Gypsy. The fact that you're on your 3rd Gypsy and still feel so strongly about it proves to me that there's something enigmatic about this vehicle, something that get's under your skin & you can't quite put your finger on it.

Maybe its the raw, mechanical feel sans the electronics, maybe its something else but it is one vehicle that evokes very strong emotions in me as well as our fraternity out there. The emotions that Gypsy evokes are like an old Cabernet Sauvignon that gets better with age.

Till a few years ago I had though I'll buy a used M3 as my mid life crisis car but now I know I have found it. Here I'm reading your piece & looking at the pictures and hoping that one day I'll again get to drive mine as well...

Enjoy your drives Shankar & keep us posted on your updates.
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Old 14th February 2017, 19:11   #471
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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
The fact that you're on your 3rd Gypsy and still feel so strongly about it proves to me that there's something enigmatic about this vehicle, something that get's under your skin & you can't quite put your finger on it.



Maybe its the raw, mechanical feel sans the electronics, maybe its something else but it is one vehicle that evokes very strong emotions in me as well as our fraternity out there. The emotions that Gypsy evokes are like an old Cabernet Sauvignon that gets better with age.

.

Yes Vikram it is a very 'cult' vehicle. And I just love its simplicity.
When I want my dose of luxury I just hop into the Yeti.
But truly despite the bare bones nature, lack of creature comforts and ac and so on, the Gypsy makes an admirable head turner daily driver, especially in Bangalore.
I got those fuses and brand new relay switches fitted.
Just half an hours work on my way home and Rs 600/- worth. Now where on earth can one get such an inexpensive fix?
Absolutely refreshing to own a simple, basic vehicle which can literally go anywhere and everywhere with no fuss at all.
Love it!
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Old 25th February 2017, 16:06   #472
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

More Gypsy maintenance discoveries...

So today I was floating around my neighbourhood and came across this Gypsy Specialist garage called Bro's Auto Care, run by Mr Nagaraju.

He's a knowledgeable person. Sat in my Gypsy, took it for a short test drive and while he did say the vehicle was in great shape for such an old Gypsy, he also pronounced the following things;

1. Certainly the Engine Bed Mounts need to be changed asap.
2. Same with the Gear Box and Differential Mounts
3. Both front door main window winding mechanisms are rusted and elderly and can do with a change along with the Glass Channels etc.

I knew this earlier and hence had ordered all these parts anyway 2 weeks ago with Popular Automobiles and they are expected to arrive in the coming week, so those were planned and budgeted.

There was a certain groaning whine in the engine which I ve been noticing from Day 1. At long last I appear to have my answer. Timing Tensioner and Timing Belt needs to be done. And I had known this somehow instinctively and when everyone kept saying it is only the fan sound, I was never quite convinced at all. So now it seems this has been diagnosed and he said its not a problem because these things can be easily substituted with the Esteem Parts.

I mentioned that once in a way I can get a whiff of unburnt gas in the cabin and he said it might be an exhaust leak somewhere, which he will check. Also, the engine does lose revs once in a while when started and the clutch is depressed. He said this would 90% be because of the throttle body needing some cleaning and decarbonising. Which is a half an hour job and he can do it easily to prevent it occurring again.

Next comes the new stranger in our midst. There were two or three Gypsys parked in his garage. He invited me to twiddle the steering wheels of two of them, upon which I noted that the steering wheels were self-cantering less reluctantly than mine. When he mentioned it I checked mine again and noted that yes, the steering was harder than the other two Gypsys. I had put it down to age. But the fault appears to lie with the King Pin or with the Steering Box itself. Now he said that to change it I can certainly buy a new one, but the new ones aren't as good as the earlier new ones which were made by Sona Steering Madras. And any new one may cost 6000 to 7000 rupees. So his solution is to source an used one which he will install in my vehicle. He is able to source one at 2000 Rs or so.

So what I am planning to do is to go over to him once these parts of mine come into town, leave the Gypsy in his care and get him to do all these jobs at one shot for me. Im hoping that the parts come in early next week since I m travelling for a week from the next weekend onwards and I can comfortably give the Gypsy to the garage when Im away for him to fix up and deliver all ship shape.

Lets hope this pans out well.

Yes the Gypsy does tend to drink up money, but I think the satisfaction that one derives from restoring a vehicle to its former glory over a long, slow process, is unbeatable.

And of course driving the Gypsy all over the place, gives me a lot of satisfaction in some strange way.
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Old 4th March 2017, 13:52   #473
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Default My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

Update on the new issues:

Im travelling for a week and luckily most of the parts arrived today.
Ive dropped off the Gypsy at Nagaraju's garage in HSR.
1. Engine Mounts will be changed and hopefully all that nasty vibration will stop.
2. Timing Tensioner and Timing Belt will be done to make the engine run smoother and not make the whiney whiney noise.
3. Throttle body will get cleaned to allow for better petrol burn and greater efficiency.
4. Silencer leak will get checked and stopped. Hopefully the fuel smell in the cabin will vanish.
5. Both sides window winder mechanisms and glass channels and glass channel bottoms will be changed so hopefully the rattles will cease and the rusted bits will become things of the past.
6. Ive asked them to source an used Steering Box/ KingPin which they will do and change so that the steering becomes lighter and easier.
Only the gearbox and differential mounts are yet to arrive and I will get those fixed whenever they do come in.
Next, Im wondering whether to have the windshield wiper linkages changed to the Type 2 ones along with the new Type 2 Arms and Blades.
And lastly, Im just thinking aloud whether it might be a good idea to consider a free flow exhaust system too, just for the 'enjoy'.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 4th March 2017 at 13:54.
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Old 11th March 2017, 18:09   #474
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Further update on my old Warbird!

So the Gypsy is back in my hands post its TLC during my last week of travel!
Mr Nagaraju had it ready and waiting by 1130 am - exactly a week post my having dropped it off!

1. Engine timing tensioner and belt changed with brand new esteem parts = no more horrible whine and much smoother feel. Much more Silent engine now!
2. Steering box with king pin etc changed with a second hand one sourced by Nagaraju = much softer steering and much easier to turn and drive.
3. Engine mountings, gear box mountings and differential mountings changed to brand new ones. = zero vibration and much smoother.
4. Both sides window winder mechanisms and glass channels changed to brand new.= no rattles and relatively easy winding up and down!
5. Throttle body thoroughly cleaned up = smooth acceleration and engine no longer runs raggedy rough.
6. Silencer leak fixed= no petrol and unburnt gas smell!
7. Clutch adjusted = much smoother gear engagement!

All good! 10 grand spent but well worth it! The biggest costs were the Steering box at 4800/- and the timing tensioner and belt at 3000/-

The only thing now is to figure out how to stop the car leaking during the car wash and when the rains come.
I think it is a question of the window and door beadings which I will order and change soon during summer!

Else the vehicle is great and good to drive daily.

Im awaiting the NOC and will change the registration to KA too, soon!

Filled up some gas and bunged in one more bottle of STP fuel injector cleaner too for a smoother run!

And now my 15 year old bird of war is ready to roll - almost as good as new!

Such a lovely Gypsy!

Here are a few pics - the old steering box and the Gypsy post car wash and so on...


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Old 19th March 2017, 10:36   #475
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Default My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

So now the innate urge to seek and achieve near perfection is upon me...

There is an excellent hardtop in white, with all the various trims and things, just sitting there for sale at Nagaraj's garage. Comparing it with the one I have on my Gypsy right now, that one is almost brand new and in top condition. Mine on the other hand is tired, dirty, tatty and cracked in several places. Considering that the other hardtop's asking price is Rs 15K Im thinking of it quite seriously but will certainly bargain with the owner.
A brand new one costs Rs 72000/-!!

Next, I need to re set my front bumper a bit because very occasionally especially when on a steep descent and while turning left, Im sensing that the right front tyre touches the edge of the bumper.

I recently sorted the petrol smell in the cabin; the cause was the fuel purge tank pipe which needed to be re fixed.

There is a dent on the bonnet where it meets the windshield area caused by something heavy having fallen on the vehicle sometime in its life. I need to tinker it and get it sorted.

I need to reset the dashboard also and mount it slightly higher than it is now. It is an old and pretty tired looking dashboard. Replacing it completely with all the trims will cost 5000 odd but that's not really needed right now.

I have to change the wiper linkages to the type 2 ones and change the arms and blades too to the type 2'ones.

I am procuring through Mr Nagaraj, a pair of brand new self retracting type seat belts which I intend installing.

I need to change one
Fog lamp's glass which I need to source from somewhere.

I need to do some tinkering on my left side door- the window channel is not ok and the door itself has some rust which needs to be killed.

The floor boards in front have a bit of rust on account of waterlogging at some time in the Gypsy's life so I need to get that sorted.

Thinking of a pair of simple artificial leather seat covers for the front 2 seats or a complete seat shampoo job.

Need to replace all the door pad screws and washers.

Need to shut off the front bonnet's water drainage vent so as to prevent leakage into the cabin.

Need a complete body rub and polish once the new hard top is fitted.

Another 25000 odd worth of expenditure is required to get this vehicle completely upto standard.

Let us see!

There is no end to this game!
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Old 19th March 2017, 12:05   #476
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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So now the innate urge to seek and achieve near perfection is upon me...

.........

Let us see!

There is no end to this game!
Considering all that you spent on this Gypsy, would not a new one been a better proposition?
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Old 19th March 2017, 14:43   #477
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Default My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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Considering all that you spent on this Gypsy, would not a new one been a better proposition?

A new one at 8 lacs on road Bangalore would have not been a smart buy. One would have had to add new tyres for sure and some more fiddlies and any way spent another 50 grand.

So far I have spent around 70 Grand or 80 Grand including the new tyres etc. And with these few more additions I would totally have spent around a lac and twenty or so.

When I m completely done, this used Gypsy would have eaten an extra 1.4 lacs or so.

Net spend on the vehicle would be still around 3.3 - 3.4 lacs all inclusive and brought up to top shape. All it needs is some maintenance, care and this type of TLC and it may well go on and on and on for a very long time!

And Im enjoying this 'project' vehicle and its slow restoration so I think its worth it - at least, to me it is worth it!

Its a great machine.
Really enjoying every moment in it!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 19th March 2017 at 14:45.
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:59   #478
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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There is no end to this game!
Completely agree! That is the very reason I sold off my pre-owned one and picked up a new one. The insane urge to make it as "good" as a new one was already driving me nuts. I can see you going the same way and would not be surprised by your post stating that you have booked a new one sometime down the line
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Old 20th March 2017, 13:19   #479
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

Guys,
As am looking to buy a Gypsy would like to know the pro's and con's between a hard top and soft top gypsy. My usage is around 6000 kms per year with 60% highway usage and 40% Delhi city use. I generally keep the vehicle for 12 years in stock condition, currently have a Scorpio S10 2wd 2015 model done 19000 kms and a Chevy Spark Lt 2013 model which has run 20000kms , Plan to sell off the Scorpio as I dont feel the fun in it. Have looked at the Isuzu Dmax Vcross but feel overpriced for the features it offers. So kindly advice.
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Old 20th March 2017, 14:04   #480
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Default Re: My brand new Gypsy King 1.3L MPFI

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As am looking to buy a Gypsy would like to know the pro's and con's between a hard top and soft top gypsy.
Depends primarily on your usage and individual preference. A soft-top is a no-no from safety perspective, if the Gypsy is going to be frequently parked in public places like malls and markets, especially with stuff left inside. A hard-top is always preferable from that standpoint as well as the fact that protection from the elements is better in case of a HT. The only factors in favor of a ST would be looks (subject to individual preference) and ability to convert your Gypsy to an open-top vehicle in 10 minutes flat.

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My usage is around 6000 kms per year with 60% highway usage and 40% Delhi city use.
Again, please revisit your intended usage. A stock Gyspy is NOT a good highway tourer from any aspect.

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Have looked at the Isuzu Dmax Vcross but feel overpriced for the features it offers. So kindly advice.
The D-Max and Gypsy are poles apart. If you are looking at a replacement for your Scorpio then there are better options compared to a Gypsy, unless you are well-versed with the strengths and weaknesses of a Gypsy and ready to live with them.

Last edited by cool_dube : 20th March 2017 at 14:05.
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