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Old 14th April 2014, 01:26   #46
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

The little turbo they added on to the MDI3200 was just for emissions...it doesn't give you much pop, maybe good for high altitudes though (forced air pump)....you have got a great little Himalayan trekker there, man. You could put a power steering unit in it for those switchbacks, and a heater....or just leave it alone.
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Old 14th April 2014, 11:06   #47
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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The little turbo they added on to the MDI3200 was just for emissions...it doesn't give you much pop,
A 90 year old smokers lungs got more power than the MDI3200's Turbo. Non Tubo version was 58bhp/16 kgm Torque. Turbo version is 63 bhp/19 kgm Torque
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Old 20th May 2014, 00:22   #48
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
A 90 year old smokers lungs got more power than the MDI3200's Turbo. Non Tubo version was 58bhp/16 kgm Torque. Turbo version is 63 bhp/19 kgm
So then, must be a 100 year-old smokers' lungs got more power than the non-turbo...?

Hmmm... as a Yank, I'm a bit backward, and ascribe to an obsolete system here, so let me think for a minute (Dan might appreciate this): 16 vs 19kgm = 116 vs. 137 lb-ft. Not that either is exactly potent, but decreased emissions aside, that's actually a significant increase in output. I sometimes drive a DI-T Bolero pickup up here on the same roads, and subjectively, I'd say it feels quite a bit stronger in terms of midrange torque - better acceleration and easier to maintain normal speeds uphill.

Also subjectively: Coming back from Spiti last year behind the wheel of the original (2.6 Turbo) Scorpio - which I'd always thought was a great performer - I was driving all-out on the smooth, broad pavement backside of Rohtang Pass, having a really difficult time staying ahead of an unladen DI-Turbo pickup who was kind of... well... racing me up the mountain. Even with me trying hard, he actually could out-accelerate me coming out of every switchback, while I pulled ahead - just slightly - on the higher-end. Granted, I had six passengers and luggage, but the fact remains that the Marshal wouldn't have even been in the running. I finally figured this was a pointless exercise and backed off, letting the pickup blow past in a rather impressive show of speed; It was a little better than a 90-year-old could do, anyway. Did he have a defective wastegate, that was giving him highly excessive boost and making his lowly M&M into a super-truck (he kept wondering why it was so much faster than the other pickups...)??? If that's the case, then give me a DI-T with an altered wastegate actuator, and I'll see ya later...

Is the Turbo worth the tradeoffs? Maybe not. But honestly, if I hadn't just rebuilt the MDI, I'd be tempted to buy the T-motor from the total loss, low-mileage Bolero Pickup that's been sitting around rusting just down-valley from here. At least tempted.

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
...you have got a great little Himalayan trekker there, man. You could put a power steering unit in it for those switchbacks, and a heater....or just leave it alone.
Thanks, Dan. Yeah, apart from tires, those are the two items that have been presently most appealing in terms of upgrades. I don't mind the heaviness of the steering, but I dislike the necessarily slow ratio. Can do without A/C since at any rate we avoid the plains in summer... but the lack of heat makes long-run winter travel a bit chilly - 'specially considering the babies...

Been meaning for awhile to get over towards Kangra Valley... few friends along the way, some in your town. Wanna meet up?

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 20th May 2014 at 00:51.
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Old 20th May 2014, 11:45   #49
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Also subjectively: Coming back from Spiti last year behind the wheel of the original (2.6 Turbo) Scorpio - which I'd always thought was a great performer - I was driving all-out on the smooth, broad pavement backside of Rohtang Pass, having a really difficult time staying ahead of an unladen DI-Turbo pickup who was kind of... well... racing me up the mountain. Even with me trying hard, he actually could out-accelerate me coming out of every switchback, while I pulled ahead - just slightly - on the higher-end. Granted, I had six passengers and luggage, but the fact remains that the Marshal wouldn't have even been in the running. I finally figured this was a pointless exercise and backed off, letting the pickup blow past in a rather impressive show of speed; It was a little better than a 90-year-old could do, anyway. Did he have a defective wastegate, that was giving him highly excessive boost and making his lowly M&M into a super-truck (he kept wondering why it was so much faster than the other pickups...)??? If that's the case, then give me a DI-T with an altered wastegate actuator, and I'll see ya later...
Hi Eric,

The Marshal has a 3.73 Diff-Ratio, where as the Pikup has a 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio.

That is almost 30% more torque. Imagine what it can do with a 4.55 or 4.88:1.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 20th May 2014, 20:22   #50
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
If that's the case, then give me a DI-T with an altered wastegate actuator, and I'll see ya later...

Is the Turbo worth the tradeoffs? Maybe not. -Eric
More is always, better than less (most of the time), so in that sense DI Turbo has got more go than non Turbo DI.

As Arka mentioned, the pick ups final gearing is shorter so the torque is more. Secondly the pump configurations are different for different vehicles having the same engine.

I have increased my fuelling a bit and am also planning to tweak the waste gate actuator.
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Old 20th May 2014, 22:14   #51
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post

Also subjectively: Coming back from Spiti last year behind the wheel of the original (2.6 Turbo) Scorpio - which I'd always thought was a great performer - I was driving all-out on the smooth, broad pavement backside of Rohtang Pass, having a really difficult time staying ahead of an unladen DI-Turbo pickup who was kind of... well... racing me up the mountain. Even with me trying hard, he actually could out-accelerate me coming out of every switchback, while I pulled ahead - just slightly - on the higher-end. ......

Been meaning for awhile to get over towards Kangra Valley... few friends along the way, some in your town. Wanna meet up?

-Eric
Give me a holler before you come over....although, since you have the Kullu Valley and the deep Himalayas right in your back yard, I don't know why you would come here. I have a 2009 Invader with the MDi3200TC. I have 4:88 crown gears in the diffs (best place for them, I have found) and my Invader will walk right passed a lot of vehicles, going at low speed up a steep hill....and it has a lot more low speed hill climbing grunt than my Thar CRDe....by far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Eric,

The Marshal has a 3.73 Diff-Ratio, where as the Pikup has a 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio.

That is almost 30% more torque. Imagine what it can do with a 4.55 or 4.88:1.

Regards,

Arka
Yup!
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Old 23rd May 2014, 18:26   #52
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The Marshal has a 3.73 Diff-Ratio, where as the Pikup has a 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio.
Hmmm... haven't had the diff's open yet, but all the sources I've seen were saying 4.27:1 for Marshal 4x4's. Seems about right, feels (re: rpm at given speed) about the same as the pickup. Didn't the 3.73's come in with the Bolero DI's, for more efficient highway cruising? Will verify next week as front diff was found leaking... WATER!??? (hopefully I'll find some gear lube in there, too).

Last edited by ringoism : 23rd May 2014 at 18:40.
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Old 25th May 2014, 01:29   #53
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
As Arka mentioned, the pick ups final gearing is shorter so the torque is more. Secondly the pump configurations are different for different vehicles having the same engine.

I have increased my fuelling a bit and am also planning to tweak the waste gate actuator.
Ahhh... now you're going to have some fun... and REALLY make me want the turbo???

Anyway, the thing with lower torque but lower gearing supposedly compensating is this: it probably evens things out if you're rock-crawling, and of course it evens things out in terms of off-idle acceleration in first gear or whatever - but if you're just trying to keep a decent speed uphill on a normal road (typical touring conditions), the higher-torque engine is always going to do it better... because (for example) that higher peak torque engine can maintain that peak torque engine rpm running up a given grade in third gear through a 3.73 final drive since it has the required power to do so; that engine rpm corresponding to however many kmph; Whereas the lower peak torque engine might only be able to maintain that rpm in third gear through proportionately lower (i.e., 4.27, etc) gears, which leaves you at a lower vehicle speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Eric,

The Marshal has a 3.73 Diff-Ratio, where as the Pikup has a 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio.

That is almost 30% more torque.
http://www.dpcmotors.com/products/marshal_dx.html Yep. 4.27:1 axles for the Marshals, too. So that can't be it.

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
since you have the Kullu Valley and the deep Himalayas right in your back yard, I don't know why you would come here.
Hey Dan,
Mmmm... Why would I want to go there? Well, for one thing, I've never actually laid eyes on a 4x4 Invader (there were only a couple 4x2's around Kullu), and didn't even know they were available with the TC DI engine... figured you'd sold yours when you got the Thar, so happy to hear it's still in your possession; if we DO get over there, I'd love to check it out.

But re: favoring "Deep Himalayas" vs. Kangra Valley, take a look around you, brother... these scenes are all nearer your side of the mountain. In fact, that glimmer in the center of the first frame is actually... your very own Dharamsala (as seen from the Pathankot highway)! Anyway, the grass is always greener... where there's more rainfall... and I think you're second behind Arunachal there? Whatever, as is so often said, it's all just as much about the journey as the destination. I just love the back route up over the mountain from Bajaura (below Kullu) to the Palampur highway at Paddhar (and Prashar Lake's not bad in clear weather, either). Hope we'll meet up eventually.

-Eric
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Last edited by ringoism : 25th May 2014 at 01:41.
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Old 25th May 2014, 12:12   #54
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Lovely pictures. Yes while the views are way better in the Kangra Valley but its Manali that has the charm of living in the mountains. Got back after a long time to this thread so now you are the father of 2. Great congratulations. I belong to HP and a frequent visitor to Manali will try and catch up am there the next time. I stay at Hotel Shishir near to the telephone exchange as its owned by a long time family friend.
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Old 25th May 2014, 23:22   #55
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Lovely pictures. Yes while the views are way better in the Kangra Valley but its Manali that has the charm of living in the mountains.
IMO, the views can be equally moving whether you're in Kangra, Kullu, Ladakh, Mizoram, or even at the right time/place in the plains. There are different kinds of beauty... but the same Source.

By all means, get in touch next time you plan to be in town. We live several km. north; a very pretty setting, to be sure.

-Eric
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Old 26th May 2014, 16:21   #56
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

I missed you by a whisker this afternoon. Was out on a late ride and was taking a break at one of the villages after Goshal (close to that pretty wide nallah) when I saw you drive down in in the Marshal.

By the time I recognized the vehicle, you had passed me and my lung-aspirated engine on a bicycle could not chase you down. Tried waving etc., but you were sticking your head out of the window and looking ahead. That looked funny!

The vehicle looks good and quite purposeful in flesh.

The pic is where our paths crossed.

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Old 21st July 2014, 20:24   #57
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...you were sticking your head out of the window and looking ahead. That looked funny!

The vehicle looks good and quite purposeful in flesh.

The pic is where our paths crossed.
What a shame to have missed you once again... that scene is just down the road from our place (ride your cycle about three minutes ahead, towards the mountain, and you'd be there)!

"Good and purposeful" is a very gracious description, thank you... I seriously need to be getting the welding/denting/painting/interior done ASAP once the rains stop (if not sooner - my wife was just this morning relating her embarrassment at riding in it sometimes... and it keeps getting delayed for various reasons)

And it does rattle a fair bit (going to venture a wild guess that my head being outside was an attempt at diagnosing some new clatter or the other???). That'll all be taken care of, too. Know the sources of most of it.

Very functional, machine, though.

Will you be in the area again anytime soon?

Last edited by ringoism : 21st July 2014 at 20:27.
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Old 21st July 2014, 21:05   #58
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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What a shame to have missed you once again... that scene is just down the road from our place (ride your cycle about three minutes ahead, towards the mountain, and you'd be there)!

"Good and purposeful" is a very gracious description, thank you... I seriously need to be getting the welding/denting/painting/interior done ASAP once the rains stop (if not sooner - my wife was just this morning relating her embarrassment at riding in it sometimes... and it keeps getting delayed for various reasons)

And it does rattle a fair bit (going to venture a wild guess that my head being outside was an attempt at diagnosing some new clatter or the other???). That'll all be taken care of, too. Know the sources of most of it.

Very functional, machine, though.

Will you be in the area again anytime soon?
I think this was posted before I had PM-ed you. Another trip was made, but that time it was way too hot and the peak of the tourist season, so just stuck to staying indoors mostly.

Headed to that region again by the end of the month. Well, not exactly there, but Spiti and Chandratal. My old reliable rattling functional Gypsy is suffering from terrible itchy feet. Will head out and camp around, probably. Not sure if we'll head to Manali. Now that I know how to contact you, will keep you posted if we do!
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Old 22nd July 2014, 19:03   #59
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This is nostalgic. My uncle use to own the elder brother of Marshal i.e. Commander back in the 90's. I always dreamt of driving it but since I was in my teens back then he would not allow, but I have very fond memories of it.
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Old 11th September 2014, 03:07   #60
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It was bound to finally happen...

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Work began part-time two days ago, and I did a good bit of the disassembly myself. Body/paint is a good business up here and everyone's busy. Perhaps more so now that the tourist season's at low ebb, and rains are about to end, making people more willing to give up their cars for repairs. Lots of sub-standard quality work up here, so finding "the right guy" is a challenge - but I think I've found a couple of them. Hoping so.

Remains to be seen re: final color (need to talk with the RTO for permission for any change). White is nice but too many taxis up here of that color. Thinking something more along the lines of metallic brownish/copperish/goldish/orangish - eh - "earthen tones" (It's a Jeep after all, and we live on a muddy road). Dark metallic green might've been interesting if not for another videshi up the road who's got the same-bodied Commander of the same hue (and is a slightly infamous character).

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Denter/welder thought body removal was unnecessary (at least he said so, maybe due to busyness), but when we got it off I was glad I'd pushed for it. Not too bad, but a bit of rust-through here and there, and some of it moderately structural. Moreover will be able to paint/rubberize everything down there in hopes of greater longevity. I want to do this once and only once. Denting/welding done (a week or less, if he were to truly get at it - nothing too serious), will get it down to a capable filler/painter several km's down the road (remains to be seen how little re-assembly I can do that with).

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After that the full interior. And a couple of tires / other details. Should be fun.

And then it should be nearly like new... until the next thing wears out (our road is so horrible this year).

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 11th September 2014 at 03:11.
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