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Old 11th September 2014, 10:00   #61
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Yay... at last your Jeep comes a full circle. She would thank you after the rebuild. Make sure the underbody is painted with rubber paint nicely. Also try to reduce the amount of Metal-Paste-Bondo to acheive a mirror finish, even a uneven finish that wont rust will do. Metal-brush clean the chassis in hard-to-reach places and a good coat or 2 of black will do good.

As for the paint - keep it non-metallic if possible, its cheaper to do touch-ups at home later. Lighter the better in hills, right? (visibility)

For interiors, if you feel road noise is too much, now is a good chance to do some sound proofing. Depending on your budget you can go with cheap foam sheet (water magnet) to dynamat ($ magnet )
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Old 12th September 2014, 02:29   #62
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Remains to be seen re: final color (need to talk with the RTO for permission for any change). White is nice but too many taxis up here of that color. Thinking something more along the lines of metallic brownish/copperish/goldish/orangish - eh - "earthen tones" (It's a Jeep after all, and we live on a muddy road).
-Eric
According to the rules you can actually paint the existing colors that the company provides as a standard offering.

The ones you mentioned might need RTO permission after all Good going, but I am still confused why did a Videsh get a Marshal!! Be a Roman in Rome policy!

Keep us posted and hope you do not get scammed by the local Mech's! No matter how well we treat them, they will find a way to substitute low quality parts that last no less than few miles after work!

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Old 12th September 2014, 17:00   #63
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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According to the rules you can actually paint the existing colors that the company provides as a standard offering...I am still confused why did a Videsh get a Marshal!! ...local Mech's...will find a way to substitute low quality parts that last no less than few miles after work!
Mmmm... the two colors I'm keen on are either a Tata or a Maruti color - so permission will be required (a friend working in the RTO might be able to smooth the process a little). "Local" quality parts are the norm here in Manali - often hard or impossible to find anything better, and the M&M showroom / service point here has never actually gotten a part to me that they supposedly ordered on my behalf... Local mechanics keep quite busy replacing prematurely worn components, and make a lot more money on the parts besides. Win-win for them, loss for us. I get stuff in Delhi whenever I go there. The Marshal just made sense for us, and IMO would make sense for almost any family up here in the snow belt. What other car/SUV can I buy in India that has 4x4, high ground clearance, 10-15kmpl with a bulletproof diesel engine, rugged construction, a lockable full steel body, seating for 10, great classic looks (pretty much like the original CJ-5's that have attained collector status abroad now), and costs only 1.5lakhs??? (well, make that 2.5+ with all the work done, but still)... I'm a pretty practical sort of "car guy".

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Make sure the underbody is painted with rubber paint nicely. Also try to reduce the amount of Metal-Paste-Bondo to acheive a mirror finish. Metal-brush clean the chassis in hard-to-reach places and a good coat or 2 of black will do good. As for the paint - keep it non-metallic if possible, its cheaper to do touch-ups at home later. Lighter the better in hills, right? (visibility) For interiors, if you feel road noise is too much, now is a good chance to do some sound proofing.
Excellent and confirming advice, most of which I had in mind to do. Denter/welder is considered one of the more capable in the area - an old hand. He himself recommended the rubber coating, and pretty sure that if I can afford to lay it on double or triple-thick, that should help with road-noise damping, too. Anyway, have known this fellow for some years and seen him restore some seriously crumpled vehicles to near-perfection, requiring much less bondo than what we typically used abroad, in fact (labor rates ridiculously high there, and a lot faster to slop some body filler on and sand it down with an air-board than to painstakingly re-form metal). Will have to go through the colors again and see if there's a non-metallic that appeals. Besides easier repairs, it would knock a few thousand off the cost of paint.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 12th September 2014, 18:29   #64
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Default Air filter.

Hi Eric,

Looks like you are using the older "oil-Bath" type air-filter, changing to the Paper Element, will help in servicing and mild performance improvement.

Regards,

Arka

Post#60 3rd Picture.

Last edited by ex670c : 12th September 2014 at 18:30. Reason: addl. info
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Old 1st October 2014, 18:50   #65
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Default Re: Air filter.

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Eric,

Looks like you are using the older "oil-Bath" type air-filter, changing to the Paper Element, will help in servicing and mild performance improvement.
Regards,
Arka
Thanks Arka. I can't argue that the oil-bath setup isn't pretty badly restrictive and a little over-elaborate. Reason I'm sold on it (till now) is that it's quite dusty where we drive much of the time, and it's actually a very effective three-stage system. The "vortex" pre-filter can be washed with water, the balance with some cheap kerosene or whatever... and even used motor oil would work fine in the bath, honestly. Just kind of wondering whether the paper would actually end up as effective in terms of cost / performance / time spent on servicing (performance considerations aside).

But which models used the paper, and which would be easiest to adapt?

-Eric
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Old 1st October 2014, 19:03   #66
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Amazing. Still a ways to go, but despite my not quite sitting on their heads (I did do some of the dirtiest work myself, I admit), there's PROGRESS!

(welding / patching done in floor & structure)
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red-oxide primer applied
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body mounting brackets redone where worn thin by abrasion - pretty nice job here by the welder, I thought
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rubberized coating liberally spray-applied (few coats) around seams / joints
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the finished undercoating, and 50/50 rubber/primer mix on the chassis (my own wild idea)
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Body is actually back on now (took six of us and some muscle), and upper body welding / denting begun. More photos to come.

I just want it ready to paint before the weather turns cold and the Impulse gets a little chilly for family (four members, including a 9-month old) hill riding... Moreover, freshly-sprayed paint likes to sag and run in the cold.

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 1st October 2014 at 19:05.
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Old 3rd October 2014, 12:19   #67
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Default Re: Air filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Thanks Arka. I can't argue that the oil-bath setup isn't pretty badly restrictive and a little over-elaborate. Reason I'm sold on it (till now) is that it's quite dusty where we drive much of the time, and it's actually a very effective three-stage system. The "vortex" pre-filter can be washed with water, the balance with some cheap kerosene or whatever... and even used motor oil would work fine in the bath, honestly. Just kind of wondering whether the paper would actually end up as effective in terms of cost / performance / time spent on servicing (performance considerations aside).

But which models used the paper, and which would be easiest to adapt?
Hi Eric,

Post 1998 all M&M Vehicles changed to the paper element.

The easiest will be the MDI3200TC plastic drum, or preferably the older Metal Drum from the pre 2006 Vehicles.

Consider a snorkel, will really help in dusty conditions.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th October 2014, 11:17   #68
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Default Re: Air filter.

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Post 1998 all M&M Vehicles changed to the paper element.
Hmmm... ours is a 2001, and seems to be a factory fitment based on mounting holes, etc. (unless the paper-element canisters mounted identically?). Anyway, will have a look around the junkyards in Mandi (Ner Chowk) next week and see what's there.

With the bodywork underway, this would definitely be the right time to do a snorkel... but sadly no local suppliers... anyone know where to get them in Delhi? Thar-specified setup should work fine here.

-Eric
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Old 4th October 2014, 15:18   #69
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Default Re: Air filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Hmmm... ours is a 2001, and seems to be a factory fitment based on mounting holes, etc. (unless the paper-element canisters mounted identically?). Anyway, will have a look around the junkyards in Mandi (Ner Chowk) next week and see what's there.

With the bodywork underway, this would definitely be the right time to do a snorkel... but sadly no local suppliers... anyone know where to get them in Delhi? Thar-specified setup should work fine here.
Hi Eric,

The mounting is similar, the paper element filter have 2 Rings/Loops to bolt them to the RHS Fender.

For a snorkel you can try Swastik Fabs or Garuda

https://www.facebook.com/swastikfabs

https://www.facebook.com/garuda.offroading?fref=ts

Regards,

Arka
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Old 24th October 2014, 09:27   #70
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Workshop's closed for Diwali, so finally a moment to breathe - and post a progress report:

After starting off to a reasonable initial pace, the body was refitted...

And then things slowed down... WAY down. I had a guest for a week and rode the bike out to Lahaul for a couple days, etc, and later had a day in Malana, another cutting wood, etc, and started to realize that whenever I wasn't there, little or (more often) NO work was completed. Critical, as I've been waiting a long while for this one time of year when it's still not too cold and it hardly rains. I guess a lot of other people were waiting, too.

The welder/denter, whose name is either Jata, Ustad, or Rakesh depending on who's addressing him, is an old hand from Kangra.

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An old hand:

Considered one of the best around, and he does have a way with metal. I doubt whether 90% of the bodyshop technicians in the U.S. could match his skills. I'm serious. Repair shops mostly just replace body panels there now, they hardly know how to re-form them anymore, outside of high-end vintage car restoration shops. And sky-high labor rates (vs. relatively cheap spare parts supply) ensure that there is really no point their learning to, either.

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An old hand:

So a lot of other people incl. private owners and taxi-wallahs, who've known him over the years come to him too. From Lahaul Valley. From Pangi Valley. From Spiti Valley. From Mandi. That's besides the locals. Which means there's a lot of people from out of town standing around with nothing to do other than vying for his attention and trying to get him to work on THEIR cars first (or next).


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An old hand:

And he says he's getting old and must've swung that hammer millions of times by now, complains about a shoulder or whatever, so takes quite a lot of biri / chai / rest breaks, and also heads for the shelter and reclining seats of his personal automobile and another smoke if it starts to sprinkle rain (he's got a covered work area, mind you, but...).

An old hand: And he's my age - 46 - and precisely as old (or young?) as me to the exact month and day, as (much to our surprise) it turns out.

Being that little was progressing for a couple weeks there and I saw no point in sitting around waiting for / prodding him to work, I scrapped my earlier plans: namely, that upon completion of welding/denting I'd deliver the car to a second shop (a Hyundai company guy) for the filling / painting, since Jata's painters lacked the skills (or care?) needed to take the car to the level of finishing I desired.

So Plan B: I finally figured I'd do better to work on the filling / sanding myself on one side of the car whilst he dented and did his thing somewhere else on the body; more efficient that way, more work getting done quicker, and my presence keeps him more attentive to our vehicle.

It'd been - let's think here - early 1992 maybe, when I'd last done bodywork myself. 22 years (!!!). Never was much of an expert re: denting, and anyway I'd used a completely different method (stud-welder-type dent puller) the last time I did it. But given a little time and a lot of body filler and sandpaper, I can get a panel good and straight (or good and curved, as the need may be). I'd personally done up seven cars in about as many years during high-school and college (a bit of a money-making sideline, actually, to help pay fees), and while I was hesitant to get into it again, doubting whether I was still capable enough, it turned out that it's kind of "like riding a bicycle" - i.e., something you never forget, I guess. It's been going well. And Jata, perhaps more so since discovering that we're kind of like "long-lost brothers", seems to be putting in some serious effort even without my having to keep on him. Sometimes he starts working without my even saying a word!

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Now, if "plan A" would've worked I'd have been several thousand rupees poorer for labor costs, but might've had my house painted by now...

Alas, it was not to be. My wife, as eager to have our Jeep back as I am (it's been the whole family of four on the Impulse for about six weeks now), has been very understanding...


Re: color, the selection process has been a lengthy one. As someone noted above, non-metallics are easier to match for repairs, besides being easier to lay down in the first place (any old spray-pattern will work, and no clearcoat required). And a whole lot cheaper, besides.

Only trouble is, I couldn't find many solid colors that really moved me or that seemed suitable. There was a bluish-green (original M&M) that I liked, but my wife wasn't too inspired by it, and it was dark enough that it would likely show dirt and body imperfections pretty well.

Requirements:

1) Earth-tones - since we live on either a muddy or a dusty road or both, depending on weather - and I hate washing vehicles, besides not having the time / place for it.

2) Looks good with the Marshal's basic proportions (having a hard time picturing most of the options, as Mahindra's original choices were so few.

3) Not too common. I actually do think these look good in white, but of the dozen or so other local Marshals and Commanders, both private and taxis, all but two are white. Being hailed for a lift all the time or having people walk up and open your doors and climb in when you've just stopped to pick up biscuits for tea-time (people thinking it's a share-taxi) has been a bit of a two-edged sword - good for community relations when you're not in a hurry and are flexible enough to pick up various strangers, but not so good when you're time or space-limited and you have to pass them up or tell them to please close the door, this is not a taxi.

4) Not too dull/drab/nondescript, as I honestly find many of the past / current M&M colors to be. Not wanting to scream "Look At Me", but would like something interesting / attractive / noteworthy, to stand out just a bit from the masses...

Been through hundreds of sample cards at a couple of different paint dealers, and came up with a few possibilities:

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Our three-year-old son is pretty clear on his favorite - "Sunset Orange", a Tata color the third from the right in the second frame. The one just to the right of that is the GM color, "Copper Bronze" which also looks pretty good and is strikingly similar to the "Aztec Gold" of the 1969 Olds Cutlass W-31 that was my final project as I was finishing college. The far right "Caffeine Brown" in the top frame looks great with a strong gold metallic flake, but would likely show excessive dirt.

Anyway, whatever is finally decided, the color change is likely to be a royal pain, since as with most other things government officialdom feels the need first to be highly involved in your personal life, and second to make you bow and grovel and cower and beg and jump through multitudinous flaming hoops in order to fulfill one's most simple, innocent, and reasonable desire... (of those seven cars I repainted a couple decades ago, five were color changes, and under the jurisdiction of two different U.S. states, I was never required to get any permission, go for any inspections, or even inform anyone about it, as I recall - at most, I'd just had to note the change of color when sending in the annual registration renewal by mail).

In this case, I rode an hour down to Kullu to submit my request. The Officer (RTO) was absent, in Shimla for a meeting, but his assistant was there. I handed him my nicely typed request, RC copy, and paint color sample, and was told that the Officer was not in. "Fine" I said, "I'll just submit it and come back in a few days" (they are supposed to give you some kind of certificate initially as a first step). I had known from long and wasteful experience that I could not expect to walk out with what I needed after merely a single visit to the office, but I was NOT prepared for his reply: "You can't do that. Nothing can be submitted unless the RTO is here".

Are you serious?

I actually know two people in that office through a social contact, so asked one of them whether I could leave the paper with her and have her submit it whenever he came back. She was willing, but the RTO's assistant assured me that this would also not be possible. "You have to submit it in person to the RTO" he said (he wants to see my face, and thereby ascertain whether I have honorable or devious motivations in changing my car's color??? Is he a criminal psychologist?). "When will he be here"? I asked. He shrugged, not seeming very sure. "Maybe tomorrow - or else after the 26th".

Anyway, don't get me started... Has anyone in the government offices ever heard of "streamlining"? Or "contingency"? Or "efficiency" or indeed, of the actual meaning of "service"?

I'm bracing myself for the worst, but praying for the best, and hoping I won't - after spending hours in travel and hundreds in fuel returning to the same office time and time again - finally throw up my hands in disgust and just have to paint it white.

Started laying some primer last night, mainly to protect bare metal from rusting, but still have to do filling on one front fender and the dickey door, besides overall sanding and miscellaneous spots here and there that aren't quite "right" - Also the cleanup and painting of the floorpan - so still several days to go, I'd guess, for the actual work.

As for the legal formalities, that's another thing...

Regards,
Eric

(Below: the evening crew last night - with both painters away, the denter, the mechanic, the shop hand/helper/apprentice, and a Terai Nepali who seems about one-third horseman, one-third bodywork/paint adviser, one-third philosopher/bhajan performer, and fully a 100% full-time talker - clearly the most interesting of the bunch.)
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Last edited by ringoism : 24th October 2014 at 09:50.
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Old 24th October 2014, 15:14   #71
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

P.S. Anyone out there with opinions re: paint colors / schemes or the shades I've shown, feel free to share them. I know these are not the most popular / typical colors... Checking online, the Tata / Maruti oranges look a bit too "orange" for my tastes, and I couldn't find the GM copper bronze anywhere (there was a Nippon color formula card for it at the paint dealer's).

Also if there's anyone with more of an eye/mind for it and can give an opinion on what could be done, color-scheme-wise, to minimize the roof proportions, I'd be appreciative. I seem to remember reading way back that with two-tone schemes, having a lighter color on top and darker on bottom tended to minimize the vertical effect. So wondering whether the roof should be the same as body color or something lighter - like maybe champagne metallic or something else compatible with earth-tones. Do let me know.

And for that matter, if you've got a recommendation for a non-metallic color (other than white/black/bright red) that you think would work, please share that too.

Here's what I'm thinking, as seen on a Rubicon (Mango Tango Pearl). Interesting how with both the Marshal and the Rubicon taking styling cues (or even body parts) from the CJ's, how certain similarities (the vertical grille, rounded hood edges, slab sides, exposed door hinges, black fender mouldings, flat windscreen, etc) have cropped up on both - that's to say that I suspect the colors that would look good on a Rubi might look good on the Marshal, too:

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I, too, was planning for black wheel arches and bumpers.

The U.S.-market Jeep color seems not too much different (though obviously richer/deeper as a Pearl) from the Nissan Micra's Sunlight Orange Metallic, which I should be able to get mixed here in India:

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Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 24th October 2014 at 15:37.
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Old 24th October 2014, 18:50   #72
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Eric, are you sure this shade would look good on a Marshal? If you are sure then the micra shade would be much better. Also have the pillars blackened as it would break the monotony of the large orange area.
Cheers.
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Old 24th October 2014, 21:38   #73
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Any thoughts?
Certainly useful for other BHPians. It will be recognised from a mile away. TBHP stickers redundant!

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Old 24th October 2014, 23:00   #74
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Eric, are you sure this shade would look good on a Marshal? If you are sure then the micra shade would be much better. Also have the pillars blackened as it would break the monotony of the large orange area.
Cheers.
No... I'm not too sure - that's why I put it up here for opinions / comments. Am having a hard time picturing it in any of the less usual colors. Wondering which software would allow me to do some graphic mock-ups / adjustments easily. Anyone out there know? I know it can be done with Photoshop but I don't have it and even if I did there'd be a pretty steep learning curve.

It IS a large orange area. Rubicon has black tint on the windows and a black top, and black bumpers / moldings, to help balance it. I could do some of that too I suppose, though I wan't keen on having a black roof (for heat's sake).

-Eric
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Old 25th October 2014, 01:16   #75
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

How about the first shade from right in the first picture? That's earthy enough and also would look pretty decent on the marshal.
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