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Old 25th October 2014, 13:21   #76
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
How about the first shade from right in the first picture? That's earthy enough and also would look pretty decent on the marshal.
Quite similar to what I was thinking as well - the metallic brown one. Reminds a bit of the duster/ertiga copper tone which would be pleasant and subtle.
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Old 25th October 2014, 19:00   #77
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

My two rupees worth. Fiat has some coppery/orange that I have seen around.

Check out #594 & #592 and/or Google Fiat Colours. My next paint job is going to be a bright shade of orange that I have seen on some Tata trucks. People are going to see me. They may still hit me but at least they will see me first, maybe.
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Old 26th October 2014, 13:25   #78
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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My two rupees worth. Fiat has some coppery/orange that I have seen around.

Check out #594 & #592 and/or Google Fiat Colours. My next paint job is going to be a bright shade of orange that I have seen on some Tata trucks. People are going to see me. They may still hit me but at least they will see me first, maybe.
If you like those Tata truck colors, I think you're going to like the hmt tractor shades, too:
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But what was your source for the Fiat color samples? #594 sounds / looks interesting, but googling for "fiat metallic copper yellow" yielded no results whatsoever. #592 metallic orange scares me a little, after seeing a faded-out Punto of that color that looked really atrocious.

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Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
How about the first shade from right in the first picture? That's earthy enough and also would look pretty decent on the marshal.
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Quite similar to what I was thinking as well - the metallic brown one. Reminds a bit of the duster/ertiga copper tone which would be pleasant and subtle.
Pleasant? Subtle? I don't recall mentioning those as requirements!

But seriously, I've seen that Duster color and it looked really nice, though the sample you refer to is actually a lot darker / browner than both that (I think) and the "Sunlight Copper" found on Ertiga / other Marutis, of which most variants I found quite strongly reddish, with the exception of Dupont's "alternate #4" color card, which I'd originally picked, and is subtler on the red tints.

Anyway, wife and I both liked that right-hand one (Maruti "Caffeine Brown") a lot... though as mentioned darker colors tend to show dirt more.

And with Dan and SvSantosh (earlier), do feel visibility (i.e., less "pleasant/subtle" colors) is an asset in the hills (or anywhere, really), so long as it's not excessively obnoxious. A lot of these darker shades look pretty much black towards evening.

As it turns out, the local paint guy is willing to custom-mix whatever color I want, including one from a sample photo or whatever (he sends it off to his distributor or whomever, who must have one of those "spectroscopic photochrometer" color analyzers or whatever), so will give him a photo of the Rubicon and see what he comes up with. I fooled with the Micra shade a little (darkened and added some red) and came up with this, which I think is close to (still not as "deep" or "rich" as) the Rubicon's color, which, albeit includes pearl elements in the mix:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-experiment.jpg

Thanks for everyone's inputs, and I welcome more. Hope to have this settled soon.

-Eric
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Old 26th October 2014, 19:44   #79
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Hello Eric

Having recently gone through a restoration for an ex-army jeep(and having reviewed the work of quite-a-few aftermarket paint jobs), I would suggest to go for a non-metallic shade for whichever color you choose, rather than the metallic one. I feel that when these "garages" create a metallic paint, they use very low quality "grain" in the paint, and after a few months' exposure to the elements, the paint becomes extremely dull and the unevenness of the grain starts to show.

As far as visibility in the hills is concerned, you could always add a couple of reflector strips front and back, and get better results than the paint being a reflector.

I understand that you do not want white, however you can consider some variation of white. Easy on the pocket too.

Thanks
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Old 28th October 2014, 00:03   #80
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Eric some more food for thought. Found it while browsing CJs. Copyright is with respective owner.
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Old 28th October 2014, 13:21   #81
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

I Googled around. Most companys have a muted orange. Buying ready made paint instead of mixing it could save you some trouble down the line.

Here's VW for 2015
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Old 28th October 2014, 17:10   #82
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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I Googled around. Most companys have a muted orange. Buying ready made paint instead of mixing it could save you some trouble down the line.

Here's VW for 2015
Dan are these ready made paints available off the shelf with the respective car dealers or the paint shops?
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Old 28th October 2014, 18:17   #83
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Dan are these ready made paints available off the shelf with the respective car dealers or the paint shops?
They SHOULD be available from the dealer. Paint is just another spare part. Dealers have to be able to fix what they sell including body work.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 19:06   #84
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Dan are these ready made paints available off the shelf with the respective car dealers or the paint shops?
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Buying ready made paint instead of mixing it could save you some trouble down the line.
The better shops buy paint from vendors with computerized mixing equipment, and if the actual paint-laying technique and equipment are up to a higher standard, results can be impressive. Just today I was looking at a 2000-model Bolero whose recent spot-repairs on several panels were really expertly done and a perfect match color-wise (in metallic champagne). You'd really never know it was a repair job, without a very close inspection.

Cost considerations are there with pre-mixes, though. For example:

Dupont Centari (Maruti) SUNLIGHT COPPER metallic (mixed): Rs3,500/Litre
Nippon (Tata) SUNSET ORANGE metallic (mixed): Rs3,000/L
Nerolac (generic) COPPER ORANGE (ready-made): Rs1,000/L

On the other hand, retailer claims a lifespan of two years for the latter, vs. ten for the former. And that Nerolac color wasn't in stock anyway, and if being out of stock / unavailable is a common occurrence, and lacking a mix formula, what does one do at repair time?

I'm guessing (seems a supportable theory) that a low-grade base (color) coat is really not much of a problem, SO LONG AS a few coats of premium-grade clear-coat are laid on top of it. Main trouble we have up here, with the high altitude and comparatively little pollution / fog, is extreme UV - one of paint's worst enemies. Most of these shops are laying both color and clear on REALLY thin to keep costs down. Customers are usually uninformed / unconcerned re: the consequences of cost-cutting. They go to the shop that gives them the cheapest quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
Eric some more food for thought. Found it while browsing CJs. Copyright is with respective owner.
That CJ color is pretty close to what I had in mind, though I think the Marshal would require a little more black trim (wheel openings, window rain deflectors, bumpers, side steps, and roof carrier) to offset the larger (and kind of loud) primary color areas on the body.

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Originally Posted by Manjeet_Singh View Post
I would suggest to go for a non-metallic shade for whichever color you choose, rather than the metallic one. I feel that when these "garages" create a metallic paint, they use very low quality "grain" in the paint, and after a few months' exposure to the elements, the paint becomes extremely dull and the unevenness of the grain starts to show.
I hear with you... agree with you... but

1. still never found a solid color that a) wasn't white (taxi confusion), b) didn't seem prone to show dirt, and c) that we particularly liked.

2. already have my "permission for alteration" in hand from the RTO for a "metallic copper" (deliberately left a little vague here)...

3. know that there are poor quality desi refinishers (90% of the shops), and then others who use the same good materials as the automotive manufacturers themselves: the difference (see cost comparison above) between a cheap, quick, corner-cutting job and one that costs at least five and possibly ten times as much. I'm going for good quality, since the 15-year inspection will be due in 2016, and hoping the paint will hold out for the subsequent one five years onward - so I want this to be good for seven or more years under harsh mountain UV. Factory paints can last that much or more, assuming some wax / preventive maintenance is regularly applied. Done right and periodically maintained, hoping that's a reasonable expectation.

Not sure what you're referring to as "grain" - could be that the actual paint (if low-grade) is breaking down with exposure to heat/UV/acid rain and airborne pollutants; another big problem is that many/most shops are rushing the jobs and in the process trapping solvents (from body fillers/primers/putties, etc) under the impermeable topcoats. This always leads to problems down the line. And that's the one good thing about my job taking a lot longer than I expected (solvents have time to get out before final painting)!

Thanks for everyone's inputs,
Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 2nd November 2014 at 19:08.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 20:04   #85
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Been hard at work (personally) on this every day the past week or two and it's coming along (though it may not LOOK much different). A large percentage of the time seems to be invested in those final details that make the difference between typical quickie repaints and something superior. Looking closely lately at even brand-new base-model Bolero's / Thar DI's, I'm pretty sure the Marshal's sheetmetal will ultimately turn out a lot straighter than M&M sent it from the factory :

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You'll note here that I had the turn indicator holes in the front fenders welded closed, as my grille panel already had the cutouts for the old-style units (which I've purchased locally), and I think it provides a cleaner look. Planning to put flexible strips of white LED's on the lower leading edges as running lights, and wire the side markers as indicators along with those in the grille. Cheap, simple, and should be good for visibility/safety.

All but done with the body filler (applied very light/thin in most cases, as the denting work was well done) and sanding. Honestly there are people who can do this part of the job a lot faster than I can - though relatively few of them who care enough do it faster than me AND just as well.

So now it's down to other prep work incl. removal / roughing of an earlier repaint layer, final priming / NC putty and cleaning / painting of the floor pan.

Finally got inspired to get the B-pillar back where Mahindra&Mahindra should've put it in the first place - there had been huge gaps front and rear of the front door and rather tight ones on the rear door - typical M&M quality control, I think. "This is nothing - an easy job" said the welder/denter. An old hand, as I said.

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Probably being too optimistic here, but hoping I might be ready to spray color by week's end. Will likely do that myself too, as the shop's painters are absolutely terrible - uneven metallic (don't know how to adjust the gun for a wide pattern, or else there's something wrong with it) and usually sags and runs besides. Totally unacceptable. One of them gave me one of their old defunct guns which I cleaned up and repaired. Worked well with the primer, but need to test and see if it'll do color well enough that I can confidently do it with my own hand. Not too crazy about painting basically outdoors (sheet roof only, dirt floor), though people here do it all the time. Otherwise might take it down a few km's to Hyundai's company shop, whose painter offered to do it, or else the independent shop who did an excellent job on a friend's aged Bolero this past week. We'll see.

Still waiting to hear from the paint shop re: mixing the Rubicon color.

Probably no time to post again till it's done...

Last edited by ringoism : 2nd November 2014 at 20:15.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 00:30   #86
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Not sure what you're referring to as "grain"

By Grain I mean the "metallic" part of the paint, the very small particles which create the metallic effect.

I agree about the variation in the paint finish quality in the after-market paint industry, and that a near-factory finish can be obtained using excellent quality paint, experienced paint staff and a paint booth.

Thanks
Manjeet
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Old 7th November 2014, 01:13   #87
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Probably being too optimistic here, but hoping I might be ready to spray color by week's end.
Yeah, too optimistic...

Do we have any paint gurus on Tbhp?

Main snag at present is materials. Nothing available in Manali but old NC primers (took me a little meditation to figure out that meant "nitrocellulose" - an old technology replaced by acrylic lacquers in some markets as early as 1958!!!) as all the shops use this and in some cases even use NC for the first color coat, only using 2-part paints (like Dupont Centari or whatever) for the final color coat and clear. Saves a lot of money I guess, but really not how it ought to be done if longevity and finish quality is of any concern. Modern polyurethane paints are allegedly available in India (PPG has at least a couple lines) but not sure if any could be found up here in the area. Shop in Mandi sells the new water-based paints to Renault only, not to the open market.

I've got a lot of bare metal now (especially after stripping the hood) and researching it, I find that NC lacquer is notoriously bad for adhesion to bare metal (that was evident already, I could scrape it off with my fingernail). Also have lot of huge hacksaw-blade scratches in the sheetmetal (not sure why the denters do it this way, but anyhow), and the other thing NC paints are supposed to be bad for is slow shrinkage, where sand-scratches start showing up after some time (could be as much as a year after topcoating). I really should be using an epoxy or self-etching primer on the bare metal, at least. Guess tomorrow will be traveling an hour away to see if the PPG dealer there has them.

Body's looking pretty straight... just have to try and get this issue worked out...

Been 25 years since i did this, and that was on a different continent with different trade names for things... bit of a learning (/re-learning/remembering) curve here. Gotta get it done before the cold sets in.

-Eric

PS: if I do finally end up with something orangey/coppery, I won't be the first (as I'd expected) in India to paint their Jeep that color. Here's a nicely done 540 I found on one of the Indian sites, in Maruti's "torino orange" - one of my top few picks among the standard mixes. Looks good IMO (photo copyright respective owner):

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Last edited by ringoism : 7th November 2014 at 01:33.
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Old 7th November 2014, 17:53   #88
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Yeah, too optimistic...


-Eric

PS: if I do finally end up with something orangey/coppery, I won't be the first (as I'd expected) in India to paint their Jeep that color. Here's a nicely done 540 I found on one of the Indian sites, in Maruti's "torino orange" - one of my top few picks among the standard mixes. Looks good IMO (photo copyright respective owner):

Attachment 1306419
Hi Eric,

Thats my "ThunderBOLT" and is MM550 and another view
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Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-10600607_728873217178209_6263559540155423690_n.jpg  


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Old 8th November 2014, 22:40   #89
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Hi Eric, thats my "ThunderBOLT" and is MM550 and another view
Feel honored to have you viewing my thread - yours is a truly beautiful build. Sorry to have downgraded it to a 540 - and to have not included a link to your gearheads (dot in) thread in the first place (though it's not letting me post the link here for some reason) - credit where credit is due!

Hope our Marshal turns out as well as your 550.

May I ask what type of paint (chemistry and brand) was used? As mentioned below, here they're typically cost-cutting by shooting a NC lacquer primer and tinted "cover" coat, then thin acrylic enamel (Dupont Centari, etc) color/clear coats on top of that. Seems to work - but for how long...? I'm thinking polyurethane (PU) would be good in terms of appearance / service life, but it would've been better in that case to strip the whole car to bare metal. I don't know whether M&M was using lacquers or enamels in 2001 (anyone?), and not wanting to run into compatibility problems by putting a PU paint over something it shouldn't be.

You seem to be hooked up with an excellent paint shop there. Any thoughts?

And may I ask where you sourced your snorkel? Not sure I want to go that route, but curious anyway.

-Eric

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Old 9th November 2014, 21:15   #90
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Eric. I have been following your thread from the start. You have a nice ride too.

The paint color is called torino orange from maruti. You can check their shade card.

I got the paint done at GT tuners Bangalore and the jeep was built at Bolton concepts.

The snorkel was gifted to me by my beloved friend Manas who owns a Thar.

Last edited by kodivasanth : 9th November 2014 at 21:17.
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