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Old 11th November 2014, 21:26   #91
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Finally found a good paint supply shop near Kullu -they supply to the company shops, so carry the better stuff. Looks like it's going to be PPG/Asian Paints Nexa premium polyurethane base/clear. The shop owners (two brothers) seem fairly well-educated and pretty sharp - they've got the pics of the Micra/Rubicon/etc and will try mixing up something as close as possible in the morning. Also PPG's company support seems pretty accessible / helpful.

Bought some 2k (two-part w/hardener) polyurethane primer, which should be a big step up from the NC (lacquer) primers used by most of the shops (including the local Hyundai one).

Now I'm getting a little apprehensive about actually spraying the base/clear coats... Probably will be able to borrow a good spray gun, but the compressor is pretty marginal in terms of output, their air-hose is old and hard and cracking, there's no paint booth (outdoor shop), and no respirator besides (and none available because nobody bothers with them up here - wonder whether it's the brain or the lungs which give out first)... and it's been 25 years since I've done this, and have never sprayed polyurethane (it was just coming out then) and only once before a metallic, and this Nexa costs Rs.4,000/litre...

Just preparing as much as I can - and praying.

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 11th November 2014 at 21:40.
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:45   #92
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

nice to see that you are spraying it yourself the volume and pressure requirement will depend on the gun you are using. you need a bigger CFM if you are using an HVLP gun. that mean a bigger tank and a larger motor. but it will reduce the over spray and consumption of your costly 2k paint. usually what you get from a rental person will be a 20 to 30 ltr compressor which will run out of breath while using an HVLP gun. you will require between 12 to 18 CFM at around 50 Psi for various HVLP guns.

what me and my friend did while spraying his old Honda Activa was, we bargained with one of the local Tyre shop where he had a large compressor for a days usage. and we sprayed it on a sunday. he had compressor with huge tank. but make sure you add a good pressure gauge and a moisture trap for this system. and a longer air hose will help in reducing the temperature further down.

you should get a good respirator protector from the same paint shop or go online.

preparing the surface is the key to a nice paint job. go for it. its real fun and satisfying .

cheers..
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Old 16th November 2014, 00:53   #93
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by toms_2191 View Post
nice to see that you are spraying it yourself the volume and pressure requirement will depend on the gun you are using. you need a bigger CFM if you are using an HVLP gun. that mean a bigger tank and a larger motor. but it will reduce the over spray and consumption of your costly 2k paint. usually what you get from a rental person will be a 20 to 30 ltr compressor which will run out of breath while using an HVLP gun. you will require between 12 to 18 CFM at around 50 Psi for various HVLP guns.

what me and my friend did while spraying his old Honda Activa was, we bargained with one of the local Tyre shop where he had a large compressor for a days usage. and we sprayed it on a sunday. he had compressor with huge tank. but make sure you add a good pressure gauge and a moisture trap for this system. and a longer air hose will help in reducing the temperature further down.

you should get a good respirator protector from the same paint shop or go online.

preparing the surface is the key to a nice paint job. go for it. its real fun and satisfying.

cheers..
Thanks for all the advice.

Nice scenery, but not exactly the ideal place to paint a car (final primer shot, just a little sanding with 600-grit and touch-up in a few spots, before shooting color):

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Have to give them a A+ for effort - the guys at the PPG retailer near Kullu tried time and again for a couple hours to come up with a color like the Rubicon's, but they just couldn't get it. It's okay. I did end up with a custom color in the end, though - started out with Ford's "Flare" which is nice enough - but subtracted / added a bit here and there and came up with something that's kind of copper/brown with a bit of red/orange... guess we'll see what it looks like when it's finally on the car. Not really like any of the shade cards I found at any of the three paint shops (Nippon, DuPont, PPG) I've spent time at. Should be interesting.

Finally got a gun-mounted gauge. PPG is recommending spraying the Nexa Autocolor base/clear at 43psi, which is actually max. for the HVLP gun I have. This is a fairly thick high-solids paint that needs good pressure. Primer also thick, and it shot very nicely when I had enough pressure. But workshop's compressor is not up to the task, even with a conventional gun. I could definitely manage painting an Activa with it, but with something having as much surface area as the Marshal, I keep having to wait for the pressure to re-build. Tank is big enough, but motor's only 2.4hp and possibly a bit tired. I too thought of borrowing a bigger one for a day, but many shops here are open 7-days a week, and not sure most of them have anything better - so not sure from where - have to think on that / check around a bit. This workshop owner has a couple other 2hp compressors laying around, one of which should be easily repairable (bad pipe somewhere apparently)... if so, and if the electrical supply can handle it, might just put two in parallel, which would give me 5+hp and quite a lot of backup storage.

Was hoping to shoot it Monday or Tuesday, but not sure now with the compressor issues. Shooting it outdoors is at any rate not going to be fun (bugs, dust, etc). Gotta get it done, though - roadtrip upcoming in about three weeks and lots of other work to do before then.

Worst comes to worst, I'll keep everything apart as it currently is - if I have to shoot a panel at a time and wait a few minutes before doing the next, I guess I can do that. But two color coats and 2-3 of clear on each part is a lot of waiting... and these days there's only 4-5hrs max that are warm enough in a day to shoot it. Would rather not have to spread it over two days. Complicates everything quite a lot. Though stripped-down, car runs and could be driven, but anyway, where would I take it? Almost everyone's just painting on the roadside up here.

Can you believe that none of the paint shops up here carry respirators? Been all the way to Mandi (3hrs away). They say nobody's using them. Sad actually, because it's going to catch up with the painters eventually. I rigged up a positive-air thing, kind of juggad based on some imported medical paraphernalia I found at the hospital. Works, but not perfectly. Wish I had something better.

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 16th November 2014 at 01:08.
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Old 17th November 2014, 09:56   #94
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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you should get a good respirator protector from the same paint shop or go online.
Amazon/e-bay india have an overpriced (Rs3,000) 3M half-face respirator, but it doesn't even specify which cartridges are included (and most cartridges do not protect against isocyanates). Do you know of any better online sources? A Punjabi guy up here says he's seen a lot of supplied-air respirator systems of some sort in paintshops in Punjab - but who's making them and where are people getting them?

I'm going to try again today with my jugaad setup, but if I'm not 100% sure about it, I'm going to have to go Delhi and search Ajmeri gate market or whatever. Really don't have time for this... but the clearcoats are what have most of the isocyanates, so still have the worst ahead of me and not eager to cut years off my own life for this long-life urethane paint.

-Eric
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Old 17th November 2014, 15:40   #95
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Eric

I could pick up the stuff from Delhi and courier to your location, if you know what exactly do you need.

Thanks
Manjeet
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Old 17th November 2014, 21:39   #96
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

[quote=ringoism;3581844 Do you know of any better online sources? A Punjabi guy up here says he's seen a lot of supplied-air respirator systems of some sort in paintshops in Punjab - but who's making them and where are people getting them?

-Eric[/QUOTE]

check this. i had bought stuffs from them and they are reliable.

http://www.machpowertools.com/safety...r-for-painting
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Old 17th November 2014, 22:44   #97
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by toms_2191 View Post
check this. i had bought stuffs from them and they are reliable.

http://www.machpowertools.com/safety...r-for-painting
This is simply a filter for particulate matter, it will not filter isocyanates and/or fumes. I think what he needs is this
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Paint-Proje...pirator-Medium
with
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Organic-Vapor-Cartridge-1-Pair

Difficult to source in Himachal, I will ask around in Pathankot tomorrow.
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Old 19th November 2014, 13:25   #98
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Amazon/e-bay india have an overpriced

I'm going to try again today with my jugaad setup, but if I'm not 100% sure about it, I'm going to have to go Delhi and search Ajmeri gate market or whatever. Really don't have time for this... but the clearcoats are what have most of the isocyanates, so still have the worst ahead of me and not eager to cut years off my own life for this long-life urethane paint.

-Eric
You could try this website http://emahendra.com/92-respirator these guys seem to have some other stuff also that you could check out.

Have fun and looking forward to seeing your Beauty.
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Old 19th November 2014, 23:29   #99
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Through many troubles... got some (not all) of the paint on it today:

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Shop proprietor had a great little portable Chinese air-compressor that's supposed to be 2.5hp, but puts out a LOT more pressure and volume than his huge shop unit (which is supposed to be 2.4). Jugaad respirator seemed to be working well, so the time seemed right.

The troubles:

1) despite a very well tightened clamp, the air hose popped off the compressor twice...

2) That eager little Chinese compressor was perhaps too eager, and overheated / shut down after a while; so I was back to the big lazy shop unit.

3) Big lazy shop unit couldn't keep up with the gun alone, never mind the respirator. Sprayed, but not at the proper pressure, so not fanning out as the pattern should be (really bad for metallics, which tend to streak), and it takes a LONG time to finish a panel.

4) Other miscellaneous air lines popping off (at the gun, at the respirator, at the respirator filter... sigh...)

5) Being delayed as much as I was by all this, the sun was about to go down by the time I was ready to lay on the clear coat (and I'd been to the shop before 8AM, working continuously, mind you); And when the sun goes down: a) it gets cold and the paint doesn't flow out as easily and tends to run; b) little gnats and mosquitoes come out and curiously like to commit suicide by landing in glossy wet paint.

Well, going to sleep now. Will probably paint the roof tomorrow, which is the largest area and the most cumbersome / difficult really.

The color is just great, I think. Looks different depending on the light - red,orange, brown... don't have any photos of it, but it really pops in the sun, and looks glowingly good under artificial light, too. Perfect.

Bodywork is not quite perfect, but pretty decent overall, with nothing too far out.

Paint could be flatter (less orange peel, etc), and the bugs are seriously irritating, but I think that with wet-sanding and polishing it should look pretty presentable.

If it had been a plaything rather than family transportation... if winter hadn't been approaching... if I'd had a properly equipped, enclosed shop and spraybooth at my disposal... if I were more experienced with this paint... it would've been better. But it'll do the job - look good, unique, protect the car from rust and nasty weather for hopefully many years to come (good-quality urethane paints are said to last practically indefinitely).

More later,
Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 19th November 2014 at 23:33.
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Old 20th November 2014, 12:49   #100
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Eric,
The paint work looks good. Keep it coming. Would love to see the full assembled jeep soon. Are you planning to paint black on the roof?
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Old 21st November 2014, 21:32   #101
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Eric,
The paint work looks good. Keep it coming. Would love to see the full assembled jeep soon. Are you planning to paint black on the roof?
Paint work could be better. Roof actually came out better than the rest, being shot at a better (warmer) time of day and having a little more experience by then. But I was able to wetsand out the previous days' bugs and re-shoot a little clear the following morning (yesterday), so will just need to buff it out a little to blend everything. At present the color makes up for any other deficiencies, IMO.

Thought of a black roof, but in a non-A/C car thought it would make it too hot, especially when we travel south of here. And anyway the carrier will be black, along with a bunch of other stuff to help offset the stronger orange tones.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-dsc03802.jpg

The Marshal this afternoon with Jata, denter/welder extraordinaire (and he's humble, too. Many have said he's the best around, and he's been here longer than almost all of them. But when I asked him today who the best denter in Manali was, he referred to somone else).

Anyway, it's finally coming together. Got the windows and a couple of door handles / locks in after snapping this, so mainly need to get the front bumper fabricated / rear ones installed, hood latches, roof carrier, and silencer pipe re-welded, & other misc, before taking it for upholstering. Can see the light at the end of the tunnel now (and it's not a train...).

Loving this color.

Only 2-1/2 weeks now before we're due to travel, so time is of the essence...

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 21st November 2014 at 21:40.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 00:49   #102
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

I think there is a little form you are supposed to fill out and give to the RTO folks to let them know that you have changed the vehicle color. Maybe your insurance guys want to know, too. Changing the color of your vehicle is, of course, potentially a terrorist act. You are hiding your true intent of death and destruction by being arty. It's obviously a stolen vehicle now. Ah, Bureaucracy, thy name is India.

I bet that color is cool in direct fall sunlight!

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Old 22nd November 2014, 12:40   #103
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Default Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Excellent results for a DIY. how many coats of you have on it ?

few observations, yous should have masked all the wheels and the bumper area at least with some news paper. any way hope you are painting the front portion again.

since you chose to have same colour on roof, i would have preferred a satin clear on it which will mask the height of it. just my opinion.

under sun light the orange is tad lighter than it seems. a black sealer primer instead of gray might have reduced this lighter reflection effect a bit.

Wet sand with 1500grt paper before polishing to take away the imperfections as you have painted it out door.

awaiting the full assembled pcs of your beauty
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Old 22nd November 2014, 15:55   #104
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Ah, Bureaucracy, thy name is India.
I'm sorry but this is the norm in several countries across the world. In many of these you also have to produce the vehicle for inspection.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 20:06   #105
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I think there is a little form you are supposed to fill out and give to the RTO folks to let them know that you have changed the vehicle color... Ah, Bureaucracy, thy name is India.
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I'm sorry but this is the norm in several countries across the world. In many of these you also have to produce the vehicle for inspection.
Form #20, they tell me.

The RTO and his junior officer there were talking with me quite a while when I went to request permission. The former has a son...eh...in a large country abroad working for one of the...eh...large multinational automakers; and both these seasoned bureaucrats were talking and laughing about the distinction: "Over there it's 'minimum government, maximum governance'". Having said that, you might be interested to know that the motor vehicle rules in places I wouldn't have expected - like wild, outback Australia - are absolutely insanely strict and repressive - get on some forums and find 4x4 guys who drive out in the bush for days on end, wondering what to do about tyres for their 1966 Land Rover, since the law clearly states that no tyres may be fitted that are more than 5% difference in circumference than the obsolete and unavailable original bias-plys (you have to be kidding me... and just how, may I ask, does this serve the greater public interest???). An Aussie friend here tells me that repressive forms of authority have something to do with their history as a penal colony (i.e., how does one run a jail?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by toms_2191 View Post
how many coats of you have on it ?

few observations, yous should have masked all the wheels and the bumper area at least with some news paper.

since you chose to have same colour on roof, i would have preferred a satin clear on it which will mask the height of it. just my opinion.

under sun light the orange is tad lighter than it seems. a black sealer primer instead of gray might have reduced this lighter reflection effect a bit.
Two of color, only one of clear - should've been 2-3 of the latter, but with the compressor problems and short days now, couldn't get it all done on the first day, and consulting with the paint shop yielded no clear answer on whether it would be okay to apply a second coat when it got warm enough to the next day, i.e., eighteen hours later. Probably could have, but left it with one rather thick one, and hope it'll hold up.

Sufficient space around the wheels minimized overspray there... what you're seeing is mostly sanding dust and should clean up easily.

Not sure what "lighter than it seems" means - but the lighter reflections, changing tones, etc - basically pearl effects - were exactly what I was after... and anyway, this link makes it clear what color primer should be used under an orangey Nexa basecoat - SG3 - which is the primer color I used. http://www.brownbrothers.com/pdfs/pr...tion-Chart.pdf Think I got this part right.

Wish you'd posted earlier re: the roof - can't remember but think I'd asked for opinions on that... I was quite undecided and didn't know quite how to minimize the appearance of excessive height. Anyway, never would've thought of a satin clear - would it actually have such an effect? The roof was "satin" after spraying the base (but before the clear), of course and can't say I noticed anything different. And very sure it wouldn't be available in the paint shop here anyway (we're pretty rural). Had scoured online and didn't find much about how to alter proportions chromatically. Just remembered something from way back (I mean around 1988 maybe, when I was painting a 1965 Chevy shortbed fleetside pickup) that with two-tones, a lighter color on top slims the upper part of the body. So I'd thought of a white / champagne top - but when it was white, not sure it looked slimmer or not... and my wife said the top would look fine the same color (and that carries a lot of weight :-) so that's how it was done.

On the other hand, not sure I mind the high look - kind of "expedition-like" and brings to mind 1st gen. Land Rover Disco's, older Nissan Safari, etc, which also have high roofs... albeit somewhat differently proportioned vehicles they are... Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-disco.jpg
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Anyway, these high-roof M&M's can look good. See further back in the thread a Mizo Commander that looks pretty tough to me. For some reason the size of the tyres really makes a difference. If I have time I'm going to bolt on a friend's alloys and see what it looks like....

Thanks,
Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 22nd November 2014 at 20:23.
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